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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am going from a hostage to a QAD ultra rest pro, some Trophy Ridge arrows at 8gpi that I plan on cutting down from 27" to 25", and some QAD tune-a-noks. I also plan on getting rid of the d-loop to gain another half inch at the draw.

How much more speed should I gain (guestimated)?
 

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You are not gaining draw length by removing you d-loop you are only changing your anchor...if you then increased the draw length of the bow a 1/2" with a module change, you would pickup a few (3) fps. Shortening the arrow maybe another 4 or 5...maybe
 

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I say 5-7 fps. Not worth the switch IMO as you'll never even notice that small of an increase.
 

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I wouldn't get rid of the D loop for 3-5fps that is crazy if you shoot off the strig you will be pinching your nock isn't worth it. What are you shooting for a bow? Might want to try a bowturbo they give you a good bit of speed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, so I keep the d loop.

I'm still shortening my arrows by 2 inches and losing about 20 grains that way along with the lighter, faster noks. Not to mention I am switching from a hostage to a fall away rest.

Shouldn't I gain at least 10 fps?

But say I did get rid of the d loop, how would I be pinching my knock? I don't get it? I mean, all I would be doing is releasing from the string and not the d loop I would imagine and of course I would use that extra space to legnthen the draw.....
 

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Ok, so I keep the d loop.

I'm still shortening my arrows by 2 inches and losing about 20 grains that way along with the lighter, faster noks. Not to mention I am switching from a hostage to a fall away rest.

Shouldn't I gain at least 10 fps?

But say I did get rid of the d loop, how would I be pinching my knock? I don't get it? I mean, all I would be doing is releasing from the string and not the d loop I would imagine and of course I would use that extra space to legnthen the draw.....
Losing 20 grains will get you about 4 fps, switching rests another 2-3 tops.

When you shoot off the string you create nock pinch because you have to attach your release below the nock which puts pressure on the nock itself when you draw the bow. Using a loop doesn't since you are drawing directly from behind the nock. As has been said though, simply taking off the loop does not increase your draw length, you will have to get a new cam or if you have an adjustable cam, you will have to adjust it to gain draw length.
 

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Ok, so I keep the d loop.

I'm still shortening my arrows by 2 inches and losing about 20 grains that way along with the lighter, faster noks. Not to mention I am switching from a hostage to a fall away rest.

Shouldn't I gain at least 10 fps?

But say I did get rid of the d loop, how would I be pinching my knock? I don't get it? I mean, all I would be doing is releasing from the string and not the d loop I would imagine and of course I would use that extra space to legnthen the draw.....
I gave you a link to a speed and Energy calculator in the other thread you had going about your Firecat speed...did you look at it, because you can put the info into it and it will estimate all this for you.
I wouldn't be so worried about your speed, what you said earlier is as fast as most hunting setups and very fast for your draw length...shoot it and get good with it, forget how fast you can make it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I gave you a link to a speed and Energy calculator in the other thread you had going about your Firecat speed...did you look at it, because you can put the info into it and it will estimate all this for you.
I wouldn't be so worried about your speed, what you said earlier is as fast as most hunting setups and very fast for your draw length...shoot it and get good with it, forget how fast you can make it.
You have me mixed up with someone else, I own a Black Ice and I'm getting around 254 fps out of it right now. I was just hoping to get it up into the 270's for a flatter trajectory for distances passed 25 yards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Losing 20 grains will get you about 4 fps, switching rests another 2-3 tops.

When you shoot off the string you create nock pinch because you have to attach your release below the nock which puts pressure on the nock itself when you draw the bow. Using a loop doesn't since you are drawing directly from behind the nock. As has been said though, simply taking off the loop does not increase your draw length, you will have to get a new cam or if you have an adjustable cam, you will have to adjust it to gain draw length.
I already knew that I would have to adjust the draw legnth. I'm drawing 27.5" right now with a 28" module and because it's a Diamond it is real easy to adjust.

Going back to the knock pinch issue though...Do you really think that holds it back any? I can see where it might though. I can adapt to a new anchor point by keeping the d loop and extending my draw to 28" though so I might just do that then.
 

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You have me mixed up with someone else, I own a Black Ice and I'm getting around 254 fps out of it right now. I was just hoping to get it up into the 270's for a flatter trajectory for distances passed 25 yards.
Very Sorry, I did confuse you with another guy.
Here is that link I was mentioning for the speed and energy calculator;
http://www.bucklemke.com/ke/ke.php
 

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Forget it. If you want faster get another bow. Seriously. What are you going to do? Use a DL that doesn't fit? Use arrows that are overspined? These things are ridiculous really. Get the bow to fit right, quit worrying about almighty speed and just learn to shoot well and judge yardage. You won't squeeze 10fps out of that without making yourself shoot like ****.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Mrwintr, thanks for the calculator.

X's, how in the world do you know that I would be over spined? The real fact is, you don't know. That said, I have considered the Bowtech Air Raid but that is down the road when I actually have money to spend.

Thanks
 

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Mrwintr, thanks for the calculator.

X's, how in the world do you know that I would be over spined? The real fact is, you don't know. That said, I have considered the Bowtech Air Raid but that is down the road when I actually have money to spend.

Thanks
Actually, if your arrows are even close now and you cut 2" from them they WILL be overspined, no doubt about it at all. 2" makes a huge difference in dynamic spine. HUGE.

My point is that doing anything to get speed that will cause accuracy or repeatability to suffer is just not worth it. Especially for less than 10fps.
 

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If you are going to ask and want info. about your set up and then tell people they do not know what they are talking about who is the dip stick here. A loop does not change the draw length of the bow just anchor point whether it is a 1/2 or a 2" loop. The spine of the arrow will make a big differ. along with FOC for what practice point weight you have. The bow is a system as a hole with the arrow. Go get lighter arrows that are spined correct and get all the speed you want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If you are going to ask and want info. about your set up and then tell people they do not know what they are talking about who is the dip stick here. A loop does not change the draw length of the bow just anchor point whether it is a 1/2 or a 2" loop. The spine of the arrow will make a big differ. along with FOC for what practice point weight you have. The bow is a system as a hole with the arrow. Go get lighter arrows that are spined correct and get all the speed you want.
That's not what I was trying to do at all. In reference to the dl issue I was merely stating that someone assumed that's what I thought. I already knew that I would have to adjust my draw legnth but that was my point about losing the d loop. I could adjust my draw legnth to 28 inches and I suppose I should have been more clear on that, LOL.

Anyway, thanks for the "help" or the criticism. I will take the overspine issue into account and get one arrow cut to 25 inches and see how it shoots before I get the rest cut.

So if I'm a 28" draw then the norm of an arrow legnth for correct spine would be?????
 

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So if I'm a 28" draw then the norm of an arrow legnth for correct spine would be?????

There are a lot of factors....length, weight of all components (nocks, vanes, inserts, points, collars, uni-bushing or pin nock bushings), the bow, DL, DW, arrow's static spine. There are shaft selector programs (like OnTarget 2) that will help get you to a very, very close starting point, though.

Also understand that small changes in DL (even as small as 1/8") can make a person shoot better or worse. I am a "300 shooter" myself, but add 1/8"-1/4" of DL and I would never, or nearly never, shoot a score that high. It really makes a big, big difference. Don't do anything to your DL and try to keep your current anchor if it's your best fit. The sad part is that most guys who only bowhunt haven't a clue what their ideal DL really is. I started out that way myself. And after being self taught initially I had a ton of bad habits to unlearn to reach the level I am currently at.
 

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This is some pretty good advice. I, too, have been amazed how small things like a little change in anchor point, draw length, or a different set of grips can affect shooting proficiency.
 
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