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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Its not just deer and its not just your state.

The last two years have been rough on wildlife.

Almost all furbearers are down including the lowly coyote, ***** muskrats you name it. All down.

Turkeys are down from most seasons a few years ago.

This isn't the first time this has happened and its not the hunters overharvesting (really as a whole were not that good.)

Its never been normal to go out and see a hundred deer in a sit or even 20 so if you had it that good enjoy the memories because were now getting back to reality to where you may have to work a little bit and have a little knowledge to kill something.

The nice warm winters of the 90's and further set the stage for some impressive numbers of critters.

It will get better but it wont happen in a year because we didn't get to where we were in a year.
 

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Its not just deer and its not just your state.

The last two years have been rough on wildlife.

Almost all furbearers are down including the lowly coyote, ***** muskrats you name it. All down.

Turkeys are down from most seasons a few years ago.

This isn't the first time this has happened and its not the hunters overharvesting (really as a whole were not that good.)

Its never been normal to go out and see a hundred deer in a sit or even 20 so if you had it that good enjoy the memories because were now getting back to reality to where you may have to work a little bit and have a little knowledge to kill something.

The nice warm winters of the 90's and further set the stage for some impressive numbers of critters.

It will get better but it wont happen in a year because we didn't get to where we were in a year.
Maybe by you, ain't the case by me.

Yotes - all time high
***** - buddy killed almost 300 last year
Trapper that I talk with told me he's never seen so many skunks, yotes or *****

The only thing in the toilet is what I eat for lunch yesterday and our deer herd.
 

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sparrows and starlings are doing well!
grasshoppers and flies are also doing alright,the deer are not!
 

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I must disagree with a few of your points. I am really surprised there are still people saying that the hunting has nothing to do with the decline in deer numbers. We have studies that are being distributed BY THE CONSERVATION departments stating that the number of does being killed most certainly is a huge part of the problem. And yes, as a whole, we actually ARE pretty darn good at killing these critters. Let me ask a simple question.....If we lose thirty thousand deer to EHD and EVERYBODY says that is devastating and blame the decline in the deer herd on that, then how can killing four hundred thousand deer, with two hundred thousand of them does, HAVE NO EFFECT? It is ridiculous to blame the thing that kills five percent of the dead deer, and argue that the thing that kills 80 percent has not effect.

Secondly, it will NOT get better unless behaviors change. Most of the other items you are talking about were nature related. Bad weather for turkey hatches etc. Those things will change because they will have better years and increase the hatch etc. However, hunting is a behavior and if they dont change the rules, than the behavior will not change, and it will continue to decline.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Indiana is ate up w/ yotes for sure, maybe the best numbers in the nation next to KS.

As far as 300 ***** in a season not that big an accomplishment, lots of those guys around do that but if you don't trap you don't know that.

If you ck out trapper numbers compared to harvest over the last five years its bad I don't care what state your in.

Theres still good pockets of critters in places but as a whole its down in most every state.

Once again robampton 20 deer a sit aint normal and no state has never killed 20 percent of the population much less 80 in a season. EHD done in 2 seasons what hunters couldn't do in several.
 

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Wisconsin is at an all time low for deer sightings. The earn a buck has really screwed things up around here its simply pathetic.
 

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Indiana is ate up w/ yotes for sure, maybe the best numbers in the nation next to KS.

As far as 300 ***** in a season not that big an accomplishment, lots of those guys around do that but if you don't trap you don't know that.

If you ck out trapper numbers compared to harvest over the last five years its bad I don't care what state your in.

Theres still good pockets of critters in places but as a whole its down in most every state.

Once again robampton 20 deer a sit aint normal and no state has never killed 20 percent of the population much less 80 in a season. EHD done in 2 seasons what hunters couldn't do in several.
No, I didn't know 300 ***** isn't a lot, but it tells me **** numbers are no where near low. I sure haven't seen more than the last few years. As far as yotes, I killed 9 this year with my bow while deer hunting. I'm going to kill several more dozen when I'm done deer huntn. Endless amount on trial cameras.

I guess my point is that while agree there are lows and highs in animal numbers, our deer herd is an entirely different situation. Far from normal. If guys continue to think that way, this state, once known world wide for a strong herd and massive bucks, will be the laughing stock of the deer management world. It may already be.

And I will relax when the states admits they have royal screwed us hunters our deer and puts a sound management practice in place driven by decisions made by qualified biologists, not politicians looking to line their pockets with money.
 

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HASTINGS-ON-HUDSON, N.Y. — When Mayor Peter Swiderski took office, he vowed to fulfill a campaign promise to do something about the deer, which are seemingly everywhere in this Hudson River village.







Hunting them was impractical in such a densely populated place. Another proposed method, “captive bolt,” which is used to stun or kill animals in slaughterhouses, was met with outrage in some corners. Soon, an e-mail with a doctored photograph of the mayor wearing a Hitler mustache started circulating, bearing the name Buck van Deer.

The deer would have to be lured with bait and netted before they could be killed with a captive bolt.

“I realized there would be a public outcry every year and sabotage would be easy,” Mayor Swiderski said. “It only takes a few people with vials of coyote urine to drive the deer away.”

Now this bedroom community about four miles north of the Bronx border, known for its progressive politics and crunchy-granola culture, has settled on a less violent approach: birth control. In an experiment to be undertaken with assistance from Tufts University’s Center for Animals and Public Policy, Hastings hopes to become the first subb in the United States to control deer through immunocontraception, using the animal’s own immune system to prevent it from fertilizing offspring.

“It’s brilliant,” said Dr. Allen T. Rutberg, the center’s director, referring to the contraceptive vaccine, whose main ingredient, porcine zona pellucida, is extracted from pigs’ ovaries and prevents pregnancy. “It works on a lot of animals, even elephants.”

Hastings-on-Hudson and nearby communities in Westchester County struggle with some of the highest deer populations in New York. State officials rely on hunters to control the deer, but hunting with firearms is prohibited in Westchester because of the large human population.

In 2011, there were 16 car collisions involving deer in Hastings alone. Mr. Swiderski contracted Lyme disease, transmitted by the deer tick, as did his wife and child, and he has heard of scores of residents treated for Lyme.

Deer can be seen languidly walking through the village, and they have expanded their palates, moving from longtime favorites like tulips to previously shunned plants like impatiens; the bottom of the village’s 100-acre wood is now mostly barren.

Dr. Rutberg, whose center is part of Tufts’ Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, has researched deer contraception for years. To date, his work has focused on self-contained areas, like Fire Island in New York and the fenced-in campus of the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Maryland. He has achieved reductions in population of 50 percent over five years. While Hastings is hemmed in by the Hudson River and the Saw Mill River Parkway, deer can easily head south from Dobbs Ferry or north from Yonkers, communities that are likewise overrun.

“Hastings will be challenging,” Dr. Rutberg said. “From a research perspective, islands make good subjects because you have some control over what goes on there. But if we really want to see if it will work in contexts where it matters, then we need more open communities, and Hastings will be the first one. The success of the project will depend at least as much on the deer as on us.”

Hastings, which measures about two square miles, is believed to be home to as many as 70 to 120 deer. Biologists and federal officials say that a maximum of 5 to 15 deer per square mile is tolerable. Some studies indicate that female deer can live their whole lives within a quarter-mile of where they were born. “It’s likely that 90 percent of the females we inject will be local,” Dr. Rutberg said.

That would bode well for the Hastings project, which could be undermined by a sudden influx of deer from other towns. In May, Dr. Rutberg and Mayor Swiderski met with officials from the state’s Department of Environmental Conservation to discuss the use of contraception.

“They are skeptical,” Mr. Swiderski said. “They think migration will overwhelm the program unless it’s a closed system.”

But Dr. Rutberg plans to submit an application to the department within a month; the program could begin in the winter. Dr. Rutberg said the deer would be tranquilized, tagged and injected with the vaccine once every two years.

More than 50 residents have volunteered to help with the effort. Some will track the movement of deer in their neighborhoods, recording their frequency and herd size. Others will put out potted plants — perhaps oak seedlings and hostas — to see if their consumption by deer declines after the program gets under way. Still others, like Eve Martin, a local veterinarian, are willing to help with the actual injections.

The program is estimated to cost $30,000 for the first two years. An animal rights group has already donated $12,000 to the effort, and Mr. Swiderski is confident that the village can raise the rest. “Hastings has a strong character of nonviolence,” he said. “With captive bolt, there would have been a polarizing battle every year that wouldn’t have done the village any good.”

“Deer have entered our backyards and essentially become unruly guests,” Dr. Rutberg said. “We are bound by suburban rules in dealing with them, and violence is not how we deal with neighbors we don’t like.”








A version of this article appeared in print on July 6, 2013, on page A14 of the New York edition with the headline: A Kinder, Gentler Way To Thin the Deer Herd.
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My part of Wisconsin is the best it has been in years. Saw 27 tonight on stand. We just quit killing does 6 or 7 years ago and started to take two a year last year. We have so many deer in my area it will make you sick. Glad to see it like this again. Been 12-15 yrs since I saw it like this.
 

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se wisconsin in cwd is terrible 72 sits and seen deer 8 times this year. 5 properties 15 cam not one shooter all year. i talked to the dnr showed them my stats and all the numbers and pics and the told me they know are county has the lowest numbers in 3 decades and to try counties in the central part of the state. i still have the email.
 

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all depends where you live, and all you guys that complain about yotes,,, Kill them.
 

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Al Gore blames it on global warming. A minimal amount of others say the Japanese nuclear reactor meltdown. The majority of others blame Obama.
 

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Overall numbers of everything in my area are down. While you may be seeing an increase in yote numbers I'm guessing you are also seeing far less red and grey fox.
 

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I must disagree with a few of your points. I am really surprised there are still people saying that the hunting has nothing to do with the decline in deer numbers. We have studies that are being distributed BY THE CONSERVATION departments stating that the number of does being killed most certainly is a huge part of the problem. And yes, as a whole, we actually ARE pretty darn good at killing these critters. Let me ask a simple question.....If we lose thirty thousand deer to EHD and EVERYBODY says that is devastating and blame the decline in the deer herd on that, then how can killing four hundred thousand deer, with two hundred thousand of them does, HAVE NO EFFECT? It is ridiculous to blame the thing that kills five percent of the dead deer, and argue that the thing that kills 80 percent has not effect.

Secondly, it will NOT get better unless behaviors change. Most of the other items you are talking about were nature related. Bad weather for turkey hatches etc. Those things will change because they will have better years and increase the hatch etc. However, hunting is a behavior and if they dont change the rules, than the behavior will not change, and it will continue to decline.
Spot on!
 

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Ohio deer harvest to date 12.07% down and while we have had snow and some cold in the last couple winters there has not been extreme winter weather. When hunters are killing 200,000 deer or more with a focus on fawn producers then they have to take their share of responsibility for declines. I have to respectfully disagree with the weather being one of the main focuses for declines.
 

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No, I didn't know 300 ***** isn't a lot, but it tells me **** numbers are no where near low. I sure haven't seen more than the last few years. As far as yotes, I killed 9 this year with my bow while deer hunting. I'm going to kill several more dozen when I'm done deer huntn. Endless amount on trial cameras.

I guess my point is that while agree there are lows and highs in animal numbers, our deer herd is an entirely different situation. Far from normal. If guys continue to think that way, this state, once known world wide for a strong herd and massive bucks, will be the laughing stock of the deer management world. It may already be.

And I will relax when the states admits they have royal screwed us hunters our deer and puts a sound management practice in place driven by decisions made by qualified biologists, not politicians looking to line their pockets with money.
This post kind of sums up my thoughts on the whole "sky is falling" mindset. From everything I have heard, and read, deer numbers are down. Some places a little bit, and some places are almost wiped-out. This can`t happen from a solitary reason. It has to be a combination of things. I said last year that EHD was worse than anyone realized. There is no telling how many deer have died from it the past two years, but I`m sure the majority went unreported to the DNR. Coyotes...I haven`t seen one all season. If you have killed nine then you have a major problem. The call-in check system hasn`t been beneficial to deer numbers either.

Apparently I feel a little differently than most hunters. My thoughts are that deer numbers have been too high in recent years. I don`t feel the DNR owes me ample opportunities to kill deer. I also don`t believe that there needs to be such an abundance of deer, and quality bucks, to accommodate 20,000 non-residents, and numerous outfitters. I understand that farmers, and insurance companies, want numbers reduced. Plain and simple it costs them money. Each year I see the crop damage on the farm I hunt. It`s obvious that the guy is taking a financial hit from it.

I can still remember a time in the early `80s when I began bowhunting. It wasn`t uncommon to go weeks between deer sightings, and we could hunt almost anywhere we wanted to. Actually killing a deer, any deer, was comparable to killing a Booner today. While I appreciate being able to see deer on literally every hunt this year, I fully understand that numbers being down isn`t the "crisis" that some are claiming.
 

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This post kind of sums up my thoughts on the whole "sky is falling" mindset. From everything I have heard, and read, deer numbers are down. Some places a little bit, and some places are almost wiped-out. This can`t happen from a solitary reason. It has to be a combination of things. I said last year that EHD was worse than anyone realized. There is no telling how many deer have died from it the past two years, but I`m sure the majority went unreported to the DNR. Coyotes...I haven`t seen one all season. If you have killed nine then you have a major problem. The call-in check system hasn`t been beneficial to deer numbers either.

Apparently I feel a little differently than most hunters. My thoughts are that deer numbers have been too high in recent years. I don`t feel the DNR owes me ample opportunities to kill deer. I also don`t believe that there needs to be such an abundance of deer, and quality bucks, to accommodate 20,000 non-residents, and numerous outfitters. I understand that farmers, and insurance companies, want numbers reduced. Plain and simple it costs them money. Each year I see the crop damage on the farm I hunt. It`s obvious that the guy is taking a financial hit from it.

I can still remember a time in the early `80s when I began bowhunting. It wasn`t uncommon to go weeks between deer sightings, and we could hunt almost anywhere we wanted to. Actually killing a deer, any deer, was comparable to killing a Booner today. While I appreciate being able to see deer on literally every hunt this year, I fully understand that numbers being down isn`t the "crisis" that some are claiming.
Each area can be drastically different - that's when a guy has to use his brain and decide to kill deer or not. There is no doubt in my mind that most are not capable of making that decision and base their thoughts on the amount of tags they have. "Well, the state sent me two tags and I can go to walmart and buy 8 more....they must want me to kill deer." "I've never seen so few deer but were doing out best to put up 200lbs of meat..." Happens every where and often.

Despite your hunting situation, a lot of areas are in crisis. I have two very good friends who have went from seeing several deer every sit to none. That's zero. 0. That's crisis if you ask me. Do you actually think those of us that are experiencing these things are making this stuff up? Get real. Just because you have deer on the ground you hunt, doesn't mean you know anything about the ground I hunt.

Also, check your data about the number of EHD killed deer compared to the amount killed by hunters or coyotes or cars. Hunter killed deer account for many, many more times that any other method or reason combined. Lets not blame 1-2% of deaths as the cause of dramatic decline in deer numbers.

Most guys like seeing deer. Most non hunters like seeing deer (I've heard from more than a few). No deer in the fields, very few while hunting in a lot of areas isn't a good sight to see. That's not healthy. I'm glad your view is outnumbered. I like seeing deer, so does most everyone else. If you have a deer problem on your ground, your not killing enough.
 

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Eastern coyotes, which generally weigh 30 to 60 pounds, expanded their range dramatically in Pennsylvania from the 1980s through the early 1990s. Once a northern tier resident, coyotes now are becoming as common in the state's suburban sprawl as raccoons, skunks and groundhogs. Sometimes they're very visible. Sometimes they're not. But, they're there, waiting to capitalize on any and every opportunity civilization affords them. They are shrewd. They are powerful. And, they are here to stay. 41,000 was killed in pa. 2012 bear totals- about 3000-4500 kills a year . bobcats thick as well kill deer as well . Coyotes and bears killed similar numbers of fawns. as in studies radio-tagged over 200 fawns in pa. and monitored them closely to measure cause-specific mortality. Of the fawns killed by predators in our study, 84 percent were killed -------- when i was 18 years old seen no bear ,seen no yotes, seen no bobcats and ehd and cwd was never talked about so, yes its the weather and hunters . and back in 80s their was 10 times hunters in woods . -------------- think about that
 
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