[gipper]

I got a good laugh yesterday. Anybody see the new material Mathews is sending out now? Our shop got a package from Mathews yesterday. Inside the package was about a 16 page booklet and a video about Mathews vs. the Hoyt Cam & 1/2 products. The booklet started off with about a 3 page statement from the company about how to not be misled by Hoyt's propaganda and that Mathews is the true innovator blah, blah, blah, blah. Then it showed all the ads they came out with in the last few months and summed up the independent tests they did and that Norb Mullaney (I guess that's the name?) was present and vouched for the test. Basically a whole bunch of typical "our bow is better than anyone elses" BS. I havn't watched the video yet but I gotta see it.



I don't know about you guys, but is this getting old or what? It makes me wonder that if Mathews is taking this much time and energy to counter ONE company's products and advertising, how bad is Hoyt hurting their sales this year? I'll try to post an image of the statement from the booklet sometime today. It's humorous

 

[OneBowTie]

yep gipper.....if i were you i wouldnt put up with that "stuff"...its way too old....just turn the franchise back into mathews and tell them you would rather not sell there products....

that would really show them your a person of conviction....and a person of principle.....and it would probably put a real hurtin on them financially......and you im sure would cruise along and not miss a sale....after all....they dont innovate....there just a marketing company, right.....

THE ONE CAM SLAM.....only mathews can slam it....and cam it....the rest are still looking at darton or someone else for their "innovations".......

 

[gipper]

OBT-

Spoken like a true Mathews supporter! You must be on their payroll too.

We can't dump Mathews. We like em' too much and sell way too many. Plus I never said I was against em', I just find the effort they put into their advertising funny. After all, they are spending all this time battling an "inferior" Hoyt product.

One Cam slam huh? Mathews is far supperior and their innovation is unsurpassed. So then the product should speak for itself, instead of letting 16 page booklets and videos do it for them. Mathews is like Deon Sanders, they have a great product, unfortunately they lack something important: "CLASS". And only when they are in trouble do they show their ugly side. And the way I see it, when Mathews is struggling, they will step on anybody else's toes to get back to the top. Sounds like ol' Matt M. has an ego problem now doesn't he.

 

[EK34]

mathews techno findings (truth)

Hey guys,
I just recieved the literature on Hoyt versus Mathews. Basically, I feel that most of you must be shooting a Hoyt and think that Mathews is picking on you Hoyt shooters. I feel that Mathews is just explaining to the shooters out there what their findings are and how it can effect your shooting. I would rather shoot a bow that is more forgiving and easier to tune for the everyday jo. Not all of us know how to put our bows back in tune once they go out. I would rather shoot some sort of cam that does not have timing problem. Like a bowtec, or and PSE with a solo cam. I think hoyt made a bad move by taking all their different cams off the market. I loved their solo cam and their command cams. I still love my Havoc, but they must be misleading peolpe to believe things that are not true, or Mathews would have kept their mouths shut. I believe that Hoyt woke up a giant in the archery world.

Just a suggestion.

 

[gipper]

EK34-
You are correct sir. I do shoot Hoyt (and have shot many Mathews), and I think Mathews really is picking on Hoyt. But I could care less because I know they are picking on them because sales wise Hoyt is kicking tail and taking names, and Mathews wants their piece of the pie back. Just business as usual.

As far as what you said about the Hoyts and timing issues, don't worry about it. They stay in tune just as easy as any one cam. Ask just about anybody who shoots one. While it's true they can go "out of time" so to speak, the amount of string stretch required to make them do so would also give any one cam serious tuning difficulties as well.

Just my .02

 

[Twang!]

Mathews sales are way down. I have talked to several large dealers and all they all say the same thing. The Mathews hype game is over and Mathews just has'nt figured it out. The average buyer is much more informed today and are'nt buying all the false claims and spin. They need to improve their product not attach someone elses.

 

[bern1]

"YAWN"

 

[LX_Shooter]

Hey gripper if Hoyt's are doing that great in your store then you should be able to do away with them bad ole Mathews.... ...Matt's not picking on you Hoyt shooters,,Just the guys at Hoyt...


The truth shall set you free

 

[OneBowTie]

hey gipper......i have mathews, martin, hoyt, bear, pse and other bows.....

no, im not on there payroll....but would take some cash if they offered

you say im the supporter.....yet you claim that "you" sell and make money from there products....and in this thread your tone is
more of mockery towards a company you admit you make a good income from......

i was taught along time ago....dont bite the hand that feeds you...i hope it doesnt come back to hurt you.....

i see mathews as they are.....a great company that supports archery and those involved in it.....they give more to the common archer than all the other companys combined.....peroid......they put more back into the future of archery than all others combined...period.....and it doesnt take a genius to figure that out.....

without mathews.......some of these companys would still be pushing outdated, untuneable, pathetic junk on you and i still.....and if your a "tournament" archer.......without mathews....there would be almost no support available at all....your beloved hoyt already once pulled the plug on shooters...and only because of mathews they still have a shooters program now.......

you want to sit here and talk about innovations, like any of these bow companys really innovate....sure....they do make inhancements and all....but the basis was "innovated" long ago...just look at how bad martin missed the call on the single cam bow....they gave it up....only to have mathews come and make it the best selling bow in the world.....so, you tell me....is putting the cart before the horse so wrong??????

now hoyt.....they really innovated that cam and half....they did this so well they have agreed to pay royalites for their keen innovation to darton.......yet you want to make a mockery of mathews for trying to stay move forward in business....

gipper....in todays day and age....sitting and just letting the competion go is a dangerous thing to do....as a great man once said....when the rate of change outside the organization is faster than the rate inside...the end is near.....so while you ridicule mathews for doing something....i applaud them for taking a stance and moving forward.....

and just for the record.....i have a new barnsdale bow coming soon......so no, mathews dont give me a thing......other than the chance to expect new and improved products because of companys like them.....

one thing for sure gipper....in the archery world....mathews is the competiton....and thats a good thing to be

 

[Hollowpoint]

I agree that Mathews makes a great bow, with a great cam system. I also agree that Hoyt makes a great bow , with a great cam system. I think Hoyt should have kept their other cam options though, their singles and cammands were good cams. I think all the BS in the advertising , is just that , BS. Shoot what you like and enjoy our sport, no matter what you shoot, or what kind of propaganda the big bow corps come up with. We all shoot what best suits us anyway. Let the exec's fight it out, I really don't think any good will come of everyone on the forum arguing about it all the time. Just my .02 worth!

 

[gipper]

OBT -

I agree whole-heartedly with what you say. The business world can be cruel and leave you in the dust if you don't keep pace. Mathews has done great things for archery and I'd be a fool if I didn't believe that. Their products are great and they know how to promote them.

Af far as me biting the hand that feeds me. Not quite. Just because I don't agree with their advertising practice doesn't mean I will tell a customer not to buy their bows. They ask me I will honestly tell them it's a great product. We sell a lot of Mathews and in general, the company has been pretty good to us. They are not as polite or friendly as PSE or Hoyt when you have to deal with them directly, but overall they take care of you.

However, what I believe is that Hoyt has come out with an exceptional product for '03 with the Cam & 1/2. Call it a copy, ripoff, whatever, they obviosly have something going because shooters love em. And to say it's all advertising is BS because you still see a Darton ad in every bowhunter magazine. I have shot the Dartons and in my opinion, the overall package does not compare. That is one man's opinion though.

However, with Mathews case, instead of counteracting Hoyt's new products with new technology, they attack it with advertising. Mathews really has not come out with a groundbreaking bow since the MQ1. They have come out with good bows since then, but nothing quite as revolutionary. Look at the LX, it's still an MQ1 at heart, just a little faster. Why do most Mathews tournament shooters prefer bows that has basically been unchanged since '97 and '00(Conquest and Q2XL). Because they have not come out with better ones yet. Mathews is in desperate need of a face lift come 2004. They need to change their style or something. They need another bow with the impact the MQ1 had. Even though the LX is much higher tech than the MQ1, it still looks the same, and to the average joe, if it looks the same, it shoots the same. I don't know how many guys have said they sill keep their MQ1's because the LX doesn't seem much different.

Mathews needs to keep up their tradition of innovative products, instead of innovative advertising. Keep the money in R&D, where it belongs.

This point has been argued to death already, I hope this doesn't turn into another bashing thread. I should have thought of that before I posted. Doohhh!

 

[centerx]

EK34..

Both styles of bows have tuning problems if the string or cables change. Both styles need maintenance and upkeep to keep the same marks and shooting to the desired feel that you set for them for originally. One is NOT more maintenance free then the other . I can prove it if you would like. One cams are not the magic machines some would have you believe. That being said I like and shoot both.

 

[Allen Campbell]

I think before long Mathews will charge Hoyt for Advertising. Every time I see the adds from Mathews it makes me want to go out and buy another Hoyt. I think Mathews is doing a great job of putting Hoyt in front of people that might not have given Hoyt a second thought before. I shoot a Hoyt and love it.

Good Shooting

 

[Ramrod]

I really don't want to keep stirring the pot, but my '03 CyberTec is by far the best shooting bow I have ever owned. I am not an archery pro shooter by far, but I have never been able to be this consistent and acurate this fast.

Word of mouth tends to be the best advertisement. So if all of the new Hoyt shooters are making the same claims it has got to be a domino effect going on here. I am a sales manager by trade and I do know that negative campaigns can come back to haunt you. With that, I will be the first to admit that Mathews has moved the archery business forward and all of us archers have benefited from it. When Tiger Woods hit the PGA, he dominated. If you follow golf today, you'll notice that the field is keeping up and at times beating Tiger. They didn't have a choice.

 

[RandomHouse]

I've seen the video read the booklet that was sent by Mathews.

And I say good for Mathews!!!!!

Hoyt didn't have to use a chart to compare thier bow to others bows (single cam, one cam)

Hoyt could have saved everyone the trouble by simple says
"Look we have a new cam shoot it and you will see its great"

Most archers would want to see what this cam was all about.
But noooooooooo

Hoyt had to say:

No cam timing, (lie) Mike Luper Hoyts Marketing guy says, you can change the module to positions a and f and it will still be in time (lie)

Hoyt claims they spent 3 yrs coming up with this cam design......


But apparently 3 yrs wasn't enough to make the cam & 1/2 diffrent from the Darton C/P/S system ( Hoyt tried their best to claim they did something wonderful only to find out its the same as Darton had back in 1996)

Wait.... I shouldn't down grade the Darton C/P/S by calling the Hoyt cam & 1/2 the same.

I say that based up level nock travel that I have seen with a Darton C/P/S The Darton bow had as perfect as you can get and so did the Mathews I saw tested!

Hoyt bows do not have perfect nock travel. SO the Cam & 1/2 is actual less than the cam they tried thier best to scam from.


Now having said all that no where has I nor Mathews nor Darton said that Hoyt didn't make a good product, only that Hoyt is misleading the public through thier staements and Ads.

Say what you want about the Mathews sales but I have spoken to several dealers in many states and they have sold just as many at this time last year as they have this year. One guy I spoke with sales Mathews and Hoyts. He said MAthews are far out selling the Hoyts! I suspect the reason his Hoyts sales are not to good is because he is a solid Mahtews man and tends to stir his cusotmers toward that line.

Not unlike Gripper who is a Hoyt fan.

In sales you will sale the brand you like more that the product you don't like.

Think about it if you like red over blue all else be equal you will sell the red more than the blue.

Some people are upset with Matt MCPhearson, But I think he is truly a remarkable man. He is The Fred Bear of our time!!

 

[SteveR]

If I sold Mathews, I would want them to fight tooth and nail to get every person believing in their product. All companies push their product over their competitors. That is, except the ones who aren't doing well enough to pay for the advertising. It would seem to me, that only a Mathews' detractor could find something wrong with this. Of course, this forum is full of people with a financial interest in the success of other bows, therefore there are many who don't want to see Mathews do well and who will find fault in everything they do.

 

[asa3dpro]

Any tests???

Is it not the Spiral cam that is doing a majority of the winning? What is copy of ?

 

[gipper]

Just because I'm a Hoyt fan doesn't mean I want to see Mathews fall or do poorly. I like Mathews and may shoot one again someday, if they come out with something I like better than what I have now. I hope they come out with a great product next year, it just means more bows I can buy!

However, I think they will step on a lot of toes trying to get back on top. It seems maybe they already have. They get down and dirty when they have too, and ultimately that may be what gets them there. Good for them.

I'll keep my Hoyt.

 

[Michigander]

Someone said Martin missed the boat on the solo cam.............
NOT!
Cam&1/2 is a 2 cam bow and before long,both of these companies will be back to 2 cams.
To many problems with one cam bows.I dont see Martin,Merlin,
Bowman,or any 2 cam bow companies cutting corners because
they're sales were being taken over.
give it a couple years..............you'll see.Most single cam companies are already offering 2 cam bows again,at least ,the ones who plan to be around awhile.
Jerry

 

[turkeytom]

Randomhouse,
As of May,Hoyt has sold 10,000more bows than they did for the total sales of 2002.I dont think they are suffering in the sales dept.Maybe you should look at your figures a little closer.I dont think the one or two shops you say you talked to is an accurate count.
My question to you is:Why doesnt mathews have their own site?So people like you with no accurate input and very little facts can go there to figure it out?
If you want to learn about mathews,read some of OBTs posts.He knows about mathews,he knows a lot of facts about bows and the industry.He knows what he is talking about.Unlike you he doesnt just blert out a bunch of crap off the wall.He shoots mathews and I shoot Hoyts.Once I get past his sales hype and get to the meat of what he has to say,Im smart enough to realize that he KNOWS what he is talking about .You want to learn about mathews?Read his posts He is LIKE A ROCK!
He doesnt bad mouth a product(too much),but he promotes the one he likes and gives good reasons for it.Mostly facts,plus his own style of sales hype.I can respect him for that.You on the other hand in my opinion lack these qualitys.
I shoot Hoyts and I dont bash unless I get bashed opon,so Im not even going there
Im not a judge,this is just my opinion.But I hope your next post is better thought out than your first one