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Discussion Starter #1
I am back in the market for a merlin. I would like either a max3000 or supernova. What combination will give me the most speed for 3d shooting.....or more forgiving...please help me decide...thanks.
 

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The MAX3000 would be the best selection of the two for 3_d AND for target, as the all around bow.

The Supernova is a fine bow, but it isn't designed for the 3-D circuit, although it's speed could be enhanced with the Rapid2 cams and the TURBO modules installed.

One other thing is that Merlin does NOT overstate their speeds like most other companies do. Normally, but not always, the speed you will get after tuning is a little higher than what Merlin states, but that is not a guarantee that it will happen with YOU.

Just remember to know for sure what your AMO draw length is and do NOT whatever you do order draw length for the Merlin based upon what the limb tag of your other brand bow says is the draw length. You cannot go by the limb tags on most other manufacturer's bows - - you could take 10 bows from most other manufacturers that are marked a given AMO draw length and have 7 to 10 different draw lengths out of that batch of identically labeled bows.

Again, for the all-around bow, the Max3000 is a dandy choice of the two mentioned.

field14:D
 

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your amo draw length is the length from the throat of
the grip to the furtherst point of the string at full draw(true draw)
plus 1 3/4 inches..all u.s. manufacturers are supposed
to go by this rating...no two risers are alike, some are wider,
some are thicker than others, some grips go deeper into
the riser than others, but if you'll measure at the throat
of the grip and add 1 3/4", you should be very close..

I think string inconsistencies has a lot to do with many
bows feeling longer or shorter than a previous one.

Merlin goes by true draw unless the customer specifically
asks for amo draw.

I wish all mfgs. went by true draw.. it would sure make
life a lot simpler..
 

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Merlin measures by AMO standard measurement, and have ever since I started with the company some years ago. If one runs a straight line up from the deepest part of the grip to the arrow shelf, then marks it there, then using the same release, loop, whatever they would be using on the Merlin, draws an arrow and has someone mark that arrow in the same spot as the mark on the shelf, then lets down, Measures that arrow from inside of nock to mark on the shaft, then ADDS 1 3/4" to that length, they will be able to give that measurement to me or any other Merlin dealer and their bow will come through at that measurement. (check this a few times to be sure you are correct when doing this, and do NOT forget to add the 1 3/4"!;) )


Now that we are clear on that, back to the original question--

Max 3000 short-limb for 3D. Best all around bow I have shot since the Max 2000. Actually, it holds better than the 2000 IMHO. You can utilize this bow for everything---3D, Field, Indoor, FITA, whatever. The Supernova is a great bow, but doesn't have the true competitive speed for 3D, therefore makes for a better spot bow. But for all-around of for 3D, the Short-limb Max 3000 is very hard to beat.;) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
 

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thanks for the update kevin.. I was told(wrong) you must
specifiy amo or they'll build it true draw..
What cams would u put on this "best 3d bow".. omegas,
r2's with turbos or targets.. thanks..
 

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That will be all personal preference---some like the twins, some like the Omegas, some like wheels. For 3D tho as your primary application i would definately consider either the Omega or the R2's, if you want my personal preference it will be the Omega hybrid. I absolutely love mine---not quite as zippy as the R2 with turbo, but it is awesome irregardless. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
 

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Discussion Starter #8
what speed can i expect with a short limb max3000, 60lbs, 300 grain arrow, 28" draw length shooting the shoot thru r2 turbo mods? THanks.
 

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I am shooting a Max 3000 long ata w/ R2 cams, w/ the target mods. (Pinwheel will send me the turbo mods next week :confused: :) 62 lbs. 28.5" draw, 324 gr. CE 3-d select 200, getting 280 fps right on the button, when I get the turbo mods it should be over 290 fps. I love the bow, feels better & shoots better ( more forgiving then my max 2000 even though the brace is 1/4 less.) I just cleaned a 30 target 3-d course with it today, hunter class, first ever perfect score, now that makes you love the bow, I think I will keep it.
Pizonarcher.:)
 

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With my Max2000, 28" draw length, 5.3 grains per pound, 54# peak weight and original rapid cams, I could muster 286 with it and decided to crank the bow poundage down and set the bow at 276 fps. Why strain if you don't have to.

IF indeed the new rapid2 cams are faster, then I would sure think that you should get the 276 or close with the rapid2 cams, and some more zip with the TURBO modules.

Just my thoughts. I also like the Omega cams - - I'm quickly getting spoiled by those suckers! I like to get as much speed as I can control, but the emphasis for me is on forgiveness and consistency and I don't like FAST misses - - I miss enough already, hahaha.

field14:D
 

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field 14, that's incredible speed at 54#.. I'm impressed.. I figured
it would be in the mid to high 260's... u must be using 8125
strings to gain a few extra fps... that's still very impressive..
I'll bet you're using 16 strands also...with a 3" c/s...and
string loop.

speedwise, how do you think the omega cams with the 75%
option would compare (apples to apples, with the max 3000
carbon long limbs just like the 2000 came) with 2000's rapid cams?
 

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Just shoot,

The Merlins come with 8125 already. I nearly always use FACTORY strings and cables. I won't pay the money out for the Winner's choice or other custom made strings ($100+ is baloney, IMHO). But I don't shoot high poundage, so I've never experienced any creep in my strings and cables that others complain about.

I think I hit the sweet spot as far as arrows and poundage are concerned, and flat got lucky. It was witnessed by a couple of other people when we did this, and they were LESS surprised than I was. Flabbergasted me. 54# peak with a 283 grain arrow.

The bow shot better at the 276, however and grouped better too. It was a bit touchy at the 286 fps, not terrible, but I had to shoot a strong shot with it.

As far as the long limbed Max3000 w/ Omegas and their comparing to the Max2000 and Rapid cams, I just don't know. I would roughly guess that the speed would be the same, but I will tell you from personal experience - - the Omega cams are a heck of a lot smoother than the rapid cams, and I thought that those Rapid cams were very nice.

field14:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
so is 290 obtainable with turbo r2's?

do you think the turbo mods will be unforgiving?

or should i get the omega ...what would the speed be with the omega? thanks everyone
 

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I have absolutely no experience with the new Rapid2 cams and the TURBO modules. Kevin (Pinwheel12) has shot them, and he can better tell you this information.

I have experience with the Merlin energy wheels, the rapid cams, the T-wheels, and now the Omega cams.

field14:eek:
 

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I have a LONG limb Max 3000 carbon with 73/8" brace here that will do a flat 290 @ 28" drawlength, 61lbs IBO legal arrow with the first "prototype" turbo mods that I was testing for the factory on a set of R2's. They are admittedly pretty "stiff" on the draw---the production turbos are about 3-4 feet slower than these and feel smoother as well, but still get plenty of zip also. If you want the fastest setup, this is it. You can even go with the Lite Storm 2 with turbos, this bow is even faster still, but it is shorter on brace and ATA. Whatever floats your boat, you always give to get with increased speed.

I have tested the Omega hybrid system on my short-limb Max 3000 Carbon, and at 28.5" and 39.75" ATA and 7.1" brace it shoots consistently in the 282-286 bracket with an IBO arrow (300g) at 60lbs. I have added some eliminator buttons on the end of the string to help reach this reading to be honest, but you will still get anywhere from high 270's to low 280's with it regardless at that configuration. Plus, it is super forgiving of arrow spine, holds like a dream with very little recoil, vibration, or shock, and is a complete snap to tune due to it's perfectly straight and level nock travel. (Read the instructuions, set it, and forget it) It stacks arrows like you read about at all distances. I am a pure-bred twin cam fan and have been for many years, but have to say I am now a convert-- this cam system simply "rocks", bottom line.;)

You will see many versions of the "hybrid" system being released this fall and for 2004 from other manufacturers, as many others like me believe this is the design of the future. (Matt McPhereson will probably have a stroke, hehe!:D ) I recommend the Omega to anyone, it is a great system.

But if you want flat out speed, you will want to choose the R2 with turbos.;) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ONE LAST question....

shoot thru vs cable gaurd......is their a difference in accuracy? I am pretty sure the omega only comes with the cable gaurd, but i like the idea of the shoot thru...it seems to line eveything up in the center better of the bow.......thanks for any help.
 

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max 3000 your gona love it

i have max 3000 with glass limbs( short) 60lbs 28.5 inch draw shooting 320 gr carbon arrow.i have not crony yet but with marks i entered into aa it gave a speed 277.626 pw12 say carbon limbs faster,but like i always say speed only kills if i hit em with my truck. i belive you wiil realy like the bow it feels great in your hand is quite as a mouse key because its built right finished with care and if you want a realy sharp one take a real hard look at the camo mine is camo and i get a lot of thats a realy sharp bow
good luck a shoot stright
:cool:
 

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cwdhunter,

Listen to pinwheel12 and you won't go wrong.. he knows
more about merlins and most folks respect his opinion more
than any others... the omegas with the straight line nock
travel are as good as it gets... but, if you have a need for
all out speed in a great bow, go with the r2's with trubo
mods on it.. it's fast.. so you'll have to decide if you want
excellent speed or tack driving accuracy with less speed
but still good as the previous posts gave you fps examples..
good luck with your choice...
 

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Both mods.

Don't forget you can get both turbo & target modules to fit the same R2 cam & just change them for 3-D or target shooting.
Pizonarcher. :)
 
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