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Discussion Starter #1
Tuning my first bow.

Got everything set up on the bow. All accessories squared and visual center shot looked good.

Shot what looks to me like a good tear from 3 feet away from the paper.

Now what?
 

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Those are not good tears. One up, one down, one almost good but I better let those who know better straighten you out
Shoot again at 5' post pics
 

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What bow? Arrows?
Which shot was 1st, 2nd, 3rd?
Did you make any adjustments after each shot?
Does photo display correct orientation? (Some people publish pics and then say that it needs turned left/right).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
PSE Surge compound
Stan blackjack hinge release
Picture is oriented correctly

Top right first shot - adjusted rest
Top left second shot - adjusted rest
Bottom is the third shot
 

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(aka lug nut)
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Bow is at 63#
29.5" draw

Cabelas Stalker Extreme 55/70 arrows
29.5"
Wrong arrows. Need to drop the draw weight to 54#, for the 29.5 inch Cabelas Stalker Extreme 55/70 arrows to work, IF you are using 100 grain points.
Cabelas Stalker Extreme 65/80 at 31-inches length, and 125 grain field points would work better for your PSE Surge at 63# and 29.5 inches of draw length.
 

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You just about have it cleaned up at this point. Looks just a hair nock low. I would see how it shoots broadheads before messing with it any more.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wrong arrows. Need to drop the draw weight to 54#, for the 29.5 inch Cabelas Stalker Extreme 55/70 arrows to work, IF you are using 100 grain points.
Cabelas Stalker Extreme 65/80 at 31-inches length, and 125 grain field points would work better for your PSE Surge at 63# and 29.5 inches of draw length.
I was afraid of that.

The arrows are long at 29.5 and could be shortened about an inch.

I am using 100g points.

I inherited these arrows and also some carbon express predator 4560 from someone with a much shorter draw length than me, he just hadn't cut them down yet.

Both arrows are 400 spine I believe. From arrow charts I've seen it looks like I really need something in the 320-340 range.

Here is another photo from some more shooting this morning.

Bare shaft is Nock Low Right fletched shaft is Nock High Left.

Do I need new arrows?
 

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If you don't want to chase your tail, and lose your hair...you need to first have a properly spined arrow. Otherwise nothing you do to tune your bow will work the way it's intended too
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I should be able to back the bow down and get better results right?

I'd kind of like to see it working better before I go spend more money on arrows.

(Surge goes down to 40# it says)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Backed out the limbs to 51# (digital peak weight scale).

Rechecked all the set-up stuff. Arrow rest is square. Arrow is square with string and level when nocked and resting on rest. Top of arrow aligns with top of arrow rest screw hole. Rest (trophy ridge hxl) is dropping.

Shot bare shaft cabelas Stalker xtreme 55/70 and got this tear (upper right in photo). Got that same exact tear four times in a row.

What on Earth? That is one wild tear!

In order to get that tear out by moving the rest I had to drop it all the way down and the arrow was super angled downward when sitting on the rest that makes no sense.

I thought maybe I have a Nock travel issue so I backed out the lower limb two full turns and shot the tear you see in the lower left of the picture.

I'm a little lost.

Not what I expected.

Help?
 

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Straight forward tuning >>————>
Started by ontarget7, Today 07:27 AM

go to this thread...
 

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Backed out the limbs to 51# (digital peak weight scale).

Rechecked all the set-up stuff. Arrow rest is square. Arrow is square with string and level when nocked and resting on rest. Top of arrow aligns with top of arrow rest screw hole. Rest (trophy ridge hxl) is dropping.

Shot bare shaft cabelas Stalker xtreme 55/70 and got this tear (upper right in photo). Got that same exact tear four times in a row.

What on Earth? That is one wild tear!

In order to get that tear out by moving the rest I had to drop it all the way down and the arrow was super angled downward when sitting on the rest that makes no sense.

I thought maybe I have a Nock travel issue so I backed out the lower limb two full turns and shot the tear you see in the lower left of the picture.

I'm a little lost.

Not what I expected.

Help?
Raise the arrow rest so the arrow tube matches the center of the arrow rest mounting holes (berger holes). Arrow should be 90 degrees to your bowstring. YOu need a bow press and you need to adjust ONE of your cables. Return tiller back to even. So, max out BOTH limb bolts, and then, remove EQUAL turns out of each limb bolt, to get back to 51# of draw weight. NOW, press your bow in a bow press and relax the string, relax the cables. You fix NOCK travel with the cables and a bow press. You do not fix nock travel by whacking out the tiller.
 

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The PSE Surge is a single cam bow. That means the metal thingy up on top is the idler wheel, and the idler wheel is perfectly ROUND. You have ONE super duper longer bowstring, and you have a buss cable. So, on a single cam, you adjust VERTICAL nock travel, by SQUEEZING the bow in a bow press, and you then, have to figure out if you need to SHORTEN the buss cable (add twists to the bottom end loop) or you have to figure out if you need to LENGTHEN the buss cable (remove twists from the bottom end loop). BUT, you heard a single cam has NO timing, cuz there is only ONE cam. FINE, call it a SINGLE CAM has a particular starting rotation position for the metal thingy on the bottom axle (cam). The starting rotation position MATTERS on a single cam bow. You change the starting rotation position, with the twisted length of the buss cable. Make the buss cable longer, and the cam rotates one direction. Make the buss cable shorter, and the cam rotates another direction (starting rotation position).

So, on my single cam bow (Mathews Apex 7), I have to mess with the buss cable twisted length, AND I had to make ONE limb bolt a full turn LESS than the other limb bolt, for best results. If the bareshaft (arrow with no vanes) is flying NOCK higher than the pointy end, remove 1/2 turn from the UPPER limb bolt. This will flatten out the bareshaft arrow flight. If the bareshaft is flying still NOCK little bit higher than the pointy end of the arrow, remove 1/4 turn from the upper limb bolt and mess with your buss cable (add twists or remove twists from the bottom end loop of the buss cable). So, if you have a HIGH paper tear...a really really TALL paper tear, where the nock end is ripping the paper HIGH...use the limb bolts to get the HIGH paper tear into a MEDIUM high paper tear. Work the limb bolt (weaken upper limb bolt 1/2 turn or maybe 3/4 turn) and get the MEDIUM high paper tear into a small high paper tear. Now, work the buss cable bottom end loop (add or remove twists) to get your bullet hole.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You fix NOCK travel with the cables and a bow press. You do not fix nock travel by whacking out the tiller.
Adjusting the tiller was an experiment to see if it changed.

It sounds like I'm on the right track thinking that it is a Nock travel problem.

So the right of the picture shows huge Nock low tear. I backed out the bottom tiller two full turns and I got the left tear.

You are saying I only need to adjust a tiller Bolt a half of turn or so. I adjusted it a lot more than that and still get a pretty bad low tear.

Is that tear on the left what you would call medium?

I have a press so I can adjust my cable length.
 

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Discussion Starter #19


The PSE Surge is a single cam bow. That means the metal thingy up on top is the idler wheel, and the idler wheel is perfectly ROUND. You have ONE super duper longer bowstring, and you have a buss cable. So, on a single cam, you adjust VERTICAL nock travel, by SQUEEZING the bow in a bow press, and you then, have to figure out if you need to SHORTEN the buss cable (add twists to the bottom end loop) or you have to figure out if you need to LENGTHEN the buss cable (remove twists from the bottom end loop). BUT, you heard a single cam has NO timing, cuz there is only ONE cam. FINE, call it a SINGLE CAM has a particular starting rotation position for the metal thingy on the bottom axle (cam). The starting rotation position MATTERS on a single cam bow. You change the starting rotation position, with the twisted length of the buss cable. Make the buss cable longer, and the cam rotates one direction. Make the buss cable shorter, and the cam rotates another direction (starting rotation position).

So, on my single cam bow (Mathews Apex 7), I have to mess with the buss cable twisted length, AND I had to make ONE limb bolt a full turn LESS than the other limb bolt, for best results. If the bareshaft (arrow with no vanes) is flying NOCK higher than the pointy end, remove 1/2 turn from the UPPER limb bolt. This will flatten out the bareshaft arrow flight. If the bareshaft is flying still NOCK little bit higher than the pointy end of the arrow, remove 1/4 turn from the upper limb bolt and mess with your buss cable (add twists or remove twists from the bottom end loop of the buss cable). So, if you have a HIGH paper tear...a really really TALL paper tear, where the nock end is ripping the paper HIGH...use the limb bolts to get the HIGH paper tear into a MEDIUM high paper tear. Work the limb bolt (weaken upper limb bolt 1/2 turn or maybe 3/4 turn) and get the MEDIUM high paper tear into a small high paper tear. Now, work the buss cable bottom end loop (add or remove twists) to get your bullet hole.
I reread through this and I think I understand better. I wish I could edit my previous post. At this point I don't think I have any questions I just need to try it out. I see you saying adjust the tiller until the tear improves, which is what I did. Then adjust the cable to bring it the rest of the way.

I did two full turns out more on the bottom tiller than the top tiller to make the change showing in the picture I posted.

Does that seem like too much of a difference between top and bottom tiller?

I'm still getting about a one and a half inch Nock low tear. I have not done any cable adjusting yet.
 

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When you get to a bullet hold at 3 feet, you should shoot at two more distances. Like a stopped clock is correct twice a day, your arrow may be flying exactly perfect at a single distance, but not so much at other distances.

You said that you are tuning your first bow. Does that mean you are new to archery? If so, when you get back to the bottom tear in your OP, start working on you rather than the bow. After the first few steps of tuning, you won't be able to tune any better than you can shoot. There is a lot you can do with set up and basic tuning, especially if you invest in a press. But you won't be able to get the ultimate out of your bow until you know if an error is you, the arrow or the bow.

Don't take this to mean that you shouldn't try to learn. Just don't be discouraged if you aren't getting the results you hoped for.

Good luck,
Allen
 
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