Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,718 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Guys,
Well, I'm 3-4 weeks, into the longest I've ever experienced, in an attempt to get a string made for my Trykon XL. I'm shooting the 27.5" cams. I WAS shooting 27.5" , but NOW I have since had my Pro Shop make some adjustments, and as of now, the bow is set up for a 27 1/8" draw length. I'm shooting MUCH better like this too.
FIRST question , is SHOULD I replace my 27.5" cams? SECOND question: I was told that you can swap cams, and make a 27.5" Trykon XL into EITHER a 27" OR a 28" bow, with the proper cams. In other words, you can swap cams, to obtain 1/2" difference in draw length UP OR DOWN. BUT NO MORE.
IS THIS TRUE? Can I and SHOULD I swap out to the 27" cams, or does it really matter??? I need your opinions on this matter fellas.

Secondly, I gave my EXACT string and cable length measurements, (printed off my bow limb) to one of the custom string makers on this forum. When I received the string, it was TOO LONG, and would not work. We COULD NOT get the bow into spec, and I still don't know what happened. The stringmaker said it was because Hoyt has a weird way of measuring their strings, and there were other reasons he stated as well.
Bottom line, is I NEED to know, if I should ALWAYS, NO MATTER WHAT, go with the string/cable numbers that are printed on the bottom limb of my bow???? I mean, would there EVER be a reason to have a stringmaker build me a string that is of a DIFFERENT length, than printed on the bows limb??? (I realize IF I were to swap cams, then the numbers on my bow limb would no longer be correct, but I have NOT swapped cams yet. I'm only considering it, but have NOT YET done it)
I just want to get a damn string made in 452x for this bow, with the end loops served, the center serving must at least be close to being in the same location as Hoyt originally put it, and I must have my floating yoke.
I would ALSO, like for the string/cables to work, just like my stock Fuse string does. In other words, I DO NOT want to have to put a million and a half twists in my string, in order for it to work right!!
Anyhow, I just wanted to get some answers to my above questions, before I take another try at getting my 452x string made for my bow!
I am starting to get discouraged, and disappointed, and I'm no longer excited about getting a new string, like I was for so long. I guess this huge mishap, has just put me down in the dumps, and it's become more of a chore/task, than something fun to do.
IF any of you guys are willing to help me with the above questions, I would appreciate it.
I'm especially wondering if I should stick with my 27.5" Zephyr cams, or should I move down to the 27" cams, since I'm really shooting at 27 1/8".
I mean, are the cams more efficient this way, or does it really matter????????
ANY and ALL help would be VERY MUCH appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Your XL is at the bottom of its "family" of cams. You can change the cams to 28" and 28 1/2" without changing the string lengths. You cannot go down to 27" without changing cams and strings.

When I order a set of strings for my customers (from Vaportrail) I give them the length stated on the limbs (and also check on Hoyts website as an additional check). I haven't had a problem yet this way.

Go to Hoyts website and hit the technical and then tune charts. Then the year and model to check for yourself.

Hope this helps.
 

·
(aka lug nut)
Joined
·
48,361 Posts
Paul Cataldo said:
Guys,
Well, I'm 3-4 weeks, into the longest I've ever experienced, in an attempt to get a string made for my Trykon XL. I'm shooting the 27.5" cams. I WAS shooting 27.5" , but NOW I have since had my Pro Shop make some adjustments, and as of now, the bow is set up for a 27 1/8" draw length. I'm shooting MUCH better like this too.
FIRST question , is SHOULD I replace my 27.5" cams? SECOND question: I was told that you can swap cams, and make a 27.5" Trykon XL into EITHER a 27" OR a 28" bow, with the proper cams. In other words, you can swap cams, to obtain 1/2" difference in draw length UP OR DOWN. BUT NO MORE.
IS THIS TRUE? Can I and SHOULD I swap out to the 27" cams, or does it really matter??? I need your opinions on this matter fellas.

Secondly, I gave my EXACT string and cable length measurements, (printed off my bow limb) to one of the custom string makers on this forum. When I received the string, it was TOO LONG, and would not work. We COULD NOT get the bow into spec, and I still don't know what happened. The stringmaker said it was because Hoyt has a weird way of measuring their strings, and there were other reasons he stated as well.
Bottom line, is I NEED to know, if I should ALWAYS, NO MATTER WHAT, go with the string/cable numbers that are printed on the bottom limb of my bow???? I mean, would there EVER be a reason to have a stringmaker build me a string that is of a DIFFERENT length, than printed on the bows limb??? (I realize IF I were to swap cams, then the numbers on my bow limb would no longer be correct, but I have NOT swapped cams yet. I'm only considering it, but have NOT YET done it)
I just want to get a damn string made in 452x for this bow, with the end loops served, the center serving must at least be close to being in the same location as Hoyt originally put it, and I must have my floating yoke.
I would ALSO, like for the string/cables to work, just like my stock Fuse string does. In other words, I DO NOT want to have to put a million and a half twists in my string, in order for it to work right!!
Anyhow, I just wanted to get some answers to my above questions, before I take another try at getting my 452x string made for my bow!
I am starting to get discouraged, and disappointed, and I'm no longer excited about getting a new string, like I was for so long. I guess this huge mishap, has just put me down in the dumps, and it's become more of a chore/task, than something fun to do.
IF any of you guys are willing to help me with the above questions, I would appreciate it.
I'm especially wondering if I should stick with my 27.5" Zephyr cams, or should I move down to the 27" cams, since I'm really shooting at 27 1/8".
I mean, are the cams more efficient this way, or does it really matter????????
ANY and ALL help would be VERY MUCH appreciated.

Hello Paul:

Most draw length specific cams
are available in 1/2-inch sizes.

Except for Spiral cams, which I believe are available in 1/4-inch sizes.

So, if most cams are available in 1/2-inch sizes,
then it means that making small draw length changes
by adding OR removing twists should be limited to a 1/4-inch range.

So, if you find that your are shooting well with a
AMO bow draw length setting 27-1/8 inches,
you have a choice.

Shoot the 27-inch cam
or shoot the 27.5-inch cam.

If you shoot the 27.5-inch cam,
you have to add twists to shorten the draw length 3/8ths of an inch.

If you shoot the 27-inch cam,
you have to remove twists to increase the draw length 1/8th of an inch.


You can go to the Hoyt website
and download the string length specs
and cable length specs for your particular cam.

You could contact Winner's Choice.
They can take care of you.

Since you have your string twisted to get you the
correct AMO draw length setting,
you can also press your bow,
take off the bowstring that is the correct length right now,
put a 1/4-inch diameter bolt in one end loop
and put a 1/4-diameter bolt in the other end loop
and get a ratchet strap
and your digital scale
and apply 100 lbs of tension
and then measure the string length
end loop to end loop.

This is the AMO standard for measuring string length.

You could tell Winners choice
you want a finished string length of XX.XX inches
and they will figure out the untwisted length,
and make you a "custom" string,
with their proprietary methods
and their preferred number of twists in the string
for stability purposes,
and then your finished string will arrive
with the correct number of twists
so that the finished string length is correct.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
I have a new Ultra-Tec and just got new strings and cables. I got them with the ends tied together at the length stated in the Hoyt charts. What the charts dont tell you is that you need to put about 1 twist per 3 inchs for the cables and string. I did this as I installed the strings. When I tuned the bow I had to adjust the buss cable about 2 twists and everything else was perfect. Where did this important information on twists come from, not Hoyt but the Javimeister!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,718 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Well guys,
I know that my options are to either stick with the 27.5" cams (while shooting at 27 1/8"), OR I can switch to the 27" cams. I guess I'm just wondering IF there is a better choice between the two??????? ???? ????

Secondly, I would like to know if this is the proper way to set up a Trykon XL?
1. Install cables and twist/untwist them, to bring bow into spec. (this includes brace height, and ATA length.)

2. Install string, and twist/untwist, to bring bow to proper draw length and poundage.

I have been told the above, is the proper way to set up a Hoyt bow.
I would like to know IF this is true, or at least a good starting point?
I have always trusted my Pro Shop, as they are pretty damn good, but I would like to be knowledgeable enough about the procedure, in order to be able to do this myself one day.
I wish SO badly that I had someone in my area, (like JAVI!), who could show me a few things about string building and proper bow setup.
There are many things I can do, but when it comes to adjusting cams, syncing cams, and adding/subracting twists everywhere, I get a little confused, and I would GREATLY benefit, from having someone show me a few things.
I try like hell to learn on this forum (and I HAVE learned a LOT), but I guess there's nothing like hands on experience.
Seriously, thanks for ANY help fellas!
 

·
(aka lug nut)
Joined
·
48,361 Posts
Paul Cataldo said:
Well guys,
I know that my options are to either stick with the 27.5" cams (while shooting at 27 1/8"), OR I can switch to the 27" cams. I guess I'm just wondering IF there is a better choice between the two??????? ???? ????

Secondly, I would like to know if this is the proper way to set up a Trykon XL?
1. Install cables and twist/untwist them, to bring bow into spec. (this includes brace height, and ATA length.)

2. Install string, and twist/untwist, to bring bow to proper draw length and poundage.

I have been told the above, is the proper way to set up a Hoyt bow.
I would like to know IF this is true, or at least a good starting point?
I have always trusted my Pro Shop, as they are pretty damn good, but I would like to be knowledgeable enough about the procedure, in order to be able to do this myself one day.
I wish SO badly that I had someone in my area, (like JAVI!), who could show me a few things about string building and proper bow setup.
There are many things I can do, but when it comes to adjusting cams, syncing cams, and adding/subracting twists everywhere, I get a little confused, and I would GREATLY benefit, from having someone show me a few things.
I try like hell to learn on this forum (and I HAVE learned a LOT), but I guess there's nothing like hands on experience.
Seriously, thanks for ANY help fellas!
I think you are fine either way
on the cams.

Me myself, I prefer to keep string twist
adjustments to 1/4-inch,
so if it was my bow, I would go with the 27-inch cam
if I have a draw length specific cam.

Have you seen JAVI's thread
about tuning Hoyts? It applies to the cam-1/2 system,
as well as the Zephyr cam system.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=207391&referrerid=22477

You don't have to read all the posts,
but if you do,
you will understand JAVI's technique that much better.

I'm not a Hoyt expert like JAVI,
but I did help a local ATer go through
JAVI's procedure for his hoyt.

It works very well.
Just go step by step.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,718 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
YES, I just got through going over Javi's posts again, and every time I read it, I realize more and more what's going on.
I should have mentioned this before. I REALLY need to get my own bow press, so I can start doing this.
ONE THING that Javi refers to frequently, is that AFTER you go through all his tuning steps for the cam 1/2, you should THEN use his "creep tuning method for the hybrid cams".
HOWEVER, I have NOT seen this "creep tune method", and I cannot figure out what it is??? For a minute, I thought it was just part of his step-by-step guide, but I SWEAR the way he refers to it in his posts, it appears to be a totally SEPERATE procedure. ???? *** is up with this guys???
Javi really is an excellent asset to this forum..
 

·
(aka lug nut)
Joined
·
48,361 Posts
Paul Cataldo said:
YES, I just got through going over Javi's posts again, and every time I read it, I realize more and more what's going on.
I should have mentioned this before. I REALLY need to get my own bow press, so I can start doing this.
ONE THING that Javi refers to frequently, is that AFTER you go through all his tuning steps for the cam 1/2, you should THEN use his "creep tuning method for the hybrid cams".
HOWEVER, I have NOT seen this "creep tune method", and I cannot figure out what it is??? For a minute, I thought it was just part of his step-by-step guide, but I SWEAR the way he refers to it in his posts, it appears to be a totally SEPERATE procedure. ???? *** is up with this guys???
Javi really is an excellent asset to this forum..
Yes he is.

Paul,

creep tuning is what you do after
the "preliminary tuning", which is what JAVI's excellent picture
thread shows how to do.

Every shooter is a little different.
Different release.
Different d-loop length.
Different release arm angle.
Different (slightly) bow hand position on the grip.


Creep Tuning.

Goto the range
and use a piece of duct tape
and tape it to the target so you get a nice horizontal edge.

Fire three shots from a comfortable distance for you
where you pull hard into the "wall" aiming at the top edge
of the duct tape.

Pick a spot on the top edge of the duct
tape for the first arrow.

Pick another spot 2-inches away for the 2nd arrow.

Pick another spot 2-inches away from the last one, for the 3rd arrow.


Now,
creep forward, until you find
the bottom of the valley in the draw cycle.

Fire another arrow away from the last one, at the top edge of the duct tape.

Fire another arrow from the bottom of the valley.

Fire another arrow from the bottom of the valley.


(You did use a large piece of duct tape?)


Now, look at your shots.

The 3 arrows on the left were shot,
"Hard" into the wall.

The next 3 arrows were shot
"from the bottom of the valley" in the draw cycle.

If all 6 arrows hit the top edge of the tape,
you are done.


If the arrows shot hard from the wall are slightly higher,
and the arrows shot from the "bottom of the valley"
are a little lower, of vice versa,

then you have a little more tuning to do
with respect to cam timing.

I can never remember which way to do what.

So, find the cable that goes to the peg
on the top cam, and add some twists to that cable
to change the cam rotation.

Just ADD 1 twist (360 degrees).

Repeat the experiment.

Did the vertical spread get worse?
Did the vertical spread get better?

If the vertical spread got better,
then keep ADDING 1 twist to the cable to goes to the top cam
and will change its rotation
if the shots from the "bottom of the valley" were high.

If the shot from the "bottom of the valley" were low,
i.e., below the edge of the tape,
then ADD 1 twist to the cable that goes to the bottom cam
and will change it's rotation.


What you are doing
is finding the cam rotation that
will give you the most forgiving
shot, with respect to creeping
or not pulling into the wall the same amount.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top