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Discussion Starter #1
So I recently switched from 400 spine with g5 montecs 100gr to a heavier setup for elk. (trying something knew because apparently I want to break something that's fixed) I have a 26.5" draw. New arrows are 350 spine with a 180gr tip. I walk back tuned my bow with both my 400s field tipped and then with my montecs and was spot on out to 50. After trying to adjust, I am shooting strong left. 3"s at 20 and a foot at 30. I know there's a million variables, but any help would be appreciated. I assume it has a lot to do with the spine. I'm not new to archery but I'm knew to change and tuning. Bow is a hoyt defiant 30 pulling 58lbs. Any help is appreciated. First Pic is with montecs second is with valkrye setup.


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Stop watching the arrow and shoot. Some of arrows look tail right, others are not. If not that, start over. Nock tune and see if that helps.
 

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not only did you swap spine, you swapped from a 3 to a 4 fletch. those 4 fletch look pretty high profile. are you sure you arent getting fletch contact? hoyts are pretty touchy about cable clearance, so thats where im putting my money. the biscuit 'bounce' would give you that reading on a fletching contact issue. ive used (and still use) a biscuit. it also looks like your nocks might not be lined up the same, but thr pics are kind of grainy for me.
 

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My Elk Hunting Home
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not only did you swap spine, you swapped from a 3 to a 4 fletch. those 4 fletch look pretty high profile. are you sure you arent getting fletch contact?
Yep, those are some awkward looking vanes. Did you try the 180's on your old arrows?
 

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Unless you have tuned the arrow and not the bow, then you very well may get two different shot locations with the two arrows. So you either have to dynamic tune the shafts or pick the one you want to hunt with and tune that set up. Then don’t worry about this set up don’t shoot with the other.
 

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The Impartial Archer
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So you changed arrow spine and added 180 grain tips? If you make changes like that of course you will have a different POI. The spine of the arrow changed and how that reacts (by flexing) with a fixed head on the arrow most likely will change your POI. Are the arrows the same OD? If not the rest has to be moved to compensate for that change in OD.
 

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Unless I'm mistaken those are a .166 ID arrow, and ProMax vanes, so they aren't all the big...

You can't change arrows that drastically and not re-tune your bow. It may be as simple as adjusting the sight, if they are grouping well, but most likely you will have to take it to a shop.

Shoot some bareshafts, don't worry about POI right now, just get it tuned, then sight in.

BTW, I know they are impacting left, but how are they grouping?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the input. I do shoot a whisker biscuit. Could that possibly cause a 4 fetched arrow to be off? I did take it to a shop, moved my rest a half an inch left and tried to put a left handed quiver on my bow and couldn't figure out how to get it on. That's when I realized I'd messed up taking it there. My rest was waaay left of center and arrows were going everywhere. I know there's going to be change between my old and new setup, but I'm new to this and since the local shop (closest one withing 90 miles) let me down, I am now here. I am going to make minor adjustments to my rest, but figured If I could get my 100 grain montecs to shoot that consistent, then it has to be something to do with tuning my bow to the arrow and not a flaw in my actual bow timing etc. Just trying to educate myself and walk myself through it as I am new to this part of archery.

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Socket Man
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Well, the hoyt you are shooting is a bow that can be yoke tuned. What that means is that you do not have to move the arrow rest to control or fix the arrow flight, you can move the bow string left and right and leave the arrow rest centered and change the arrow flight.

The key here is you and your shooting form, if you have very poor shooting form and execution you may be outside the tuning window of the bow causing you to need to do very extreme things to get the bow to tune correctly. If you have good shooting form and execution then you have a nice window of tuning ability offered by that bow to get very nice results.
 

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Socket Man
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The issue you are going to have is the knowledge of how to yoke tune a bow and the steps to take and the order to do them, secondly is having a bow press available to actually do the job of yoke tuning. I have a complete competition tuning article that you could read and see the order and process but if you don't have a press you are still stuck.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Okay, so I have come to the realization that my fletchings are hitting the black portion of my whisker biscuit after analyzing a little closer. Grabbed another bow with comparable weight etc loaded with a qad drop away rest and it's shooting bullets. My bow shoots 3 fetched arrows dead on out to 60 and I can't get a group inside 5 inches at 20 with the 4 fetched. I believe what's happening is my fletchings are hitting inconsistent on my whisker biscuit resulting in inconsistent flight. Taking to a bow shop tomorrow to see what comes of it and will let yall know. Thanks again for the input.

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Discussion Starter #13
I also want to note that these arrows were shooting 10 inches lower at 20 yards than my original setup. Seems excessive. Whereas when shooting them through the other bow running the same setup with the drop away there was virtually no change in drop at 20.

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hitting the black bristles will send the point of the arrow down and youll hit lower than you would normally.

thats another issue with the micro arrows, the vanes are so close you dont have clearance in the rest even with 90* 4 fletch. standard diameter has just enough room to clear a 4 fletch 90* helical in a biscuit.

personally i would just strip the 4 fletch and use 3. that should solve most all your issues
 

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The Impartial Archer
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I also want to note that these arrows were shooting 10 inches lower at 20 yards than my original setup. Seems excessive. Whereas when shooting them through the other bow running the same setup with the drop away there was virtually no change in drop at 20.

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All these issue you are having are coming from the arrow change. You can't change the shaft OD, spine & weight and not re-tune for that. This is why many people think heavy arrows drop so much. They shoot one off a bow that's sighted in for a different arrow and a lighter arrow and never move the pin to sight both arrows in. Since the bow isn't sighted in for "both" arrows you can't make a comparison like you did.....it's very deceiving.

You don't need to do anything but move the rest to compensate for the OD change. There is no way you can make a change like this and not re-adjust the rest. Not possible.

Comparing other bows to your is not helping.....it's just confusing you more.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
All these issue you are having are coming from the arrow change. You can't change the shaft OD, spine & weight and not re-tune for that. This is why many people thing heavy arrows drop so much. They shoot one off a bow that's sighted in for a different arrow and a lighter arrow and never move the pin. Since the bow isn't sighted in for "both" arrows you can't make a comparison like you did.....it's very deceiving.

You don't need to do anything but move the rest to compensate for the OD change. There is no way you can make a change like this and not re-adjust the rest. Not possible.

Comparing other bows to your is not helping.....it's just confusing you more.
Funny you say that, I also shot these arrows through my gfs bow pulling 45lbs and she was dead on at 20 without ANY adjustments. And at 30, there was a minor drop. Odd, but it goes completely against everything you just said. She shoots 500 spine with a 100gr tip normally.

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I would paper your new set up and or bareshaft- get them on and forget it !
If both of those pan out move your sight !
You'll get a 100 different responses but often i think we over think it !
good luck in the fall !!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I would paper your new set up and or bareshaft- get them on and forget it !
If both of those pan out move your sight !
You'll get a 100 different responses but often i think we over think it !
good luck in the fall !!
Appreciate it. I'm dead set that it's the whisker biscuit. I'll let ya know what I figure out this evening. When we tried to paper tune it the first Time it was having me move my rest a 1/2 inch left of center. The fletchings are getting uneven pass through on the wb.

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Shoot a bare shaft either thru paper and at different distances, it will tell you a lot more.
 
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