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Offroading question

1K views 34 replies 19 participants last post by  Piscatory_1 
#1 ·
I know adding weight to the bed of a truck when it's pouring rain will help prevent hydroplaning but what about offroad in AZ mud? Is weight your friend their too or does it hinder performance? I just added several hundred pounds to my bed (sandsnakes filled with gravel) which helped alot on the road in the wet...but I'm still learning about offroad stuff. Generally I just accellerate through big mud puddles and sometimes barely make it across. Thinking more weight might bog me down there. But I can also see the opposite being true if you can bite into solid ground. Man that red AZ mud just eats paint.
 
#2 ·
Can't help with AZ mud advice but I always prefer some weight in my truck bed during hunting season, it smooths the ride on logging roads and better traction on some sketchy side roads I may get into. You have 4 wheel drive? Weight in bed of truck is always a benefit in my opinion. If the AZ mud is like the Wyoming gumbo stuff I have heard and read about it may not make much difference because the tires will be clogged after about 2 revolutions.
 
#4 ·
Not sure about 2 wheel drive trucks, but 4 wheel drives you want lightweight in mud. Up here in mn an wi I run super swampers on my hunting truck, or sometimes just a BF Goodrich MT. You want a lightweight truck with an aggressive wide tire to help float over mud as much as possible. I also 4 wheel for fun so I have tried just about everything you can think of for better traction in mud. For winter you want just the opposite, a tall skinny tire with extra weight in the bed of your truck.
 
#5 ·
I would put as much weight in the bed that you have power for. It will absolutely improve rear traction. A good after market limited slip, like a Detroit true trac, or even better, a selectable locker will make a 2WD truck wheel as good as an open differential 4WD rig. That will be much cheaper than buying a four wheel drive pickup or SUV. Good mud tires help too.
 
#15 ·
I realized that we contradicted each other after my post. I think in deep, watery mud, floatation is key. In AZ, I assumed it's slick, snotty mud, where I would weigh down the back of a pickup. I've had 4 jeeps and two trucks that I've hunted in for the last 30 years. While they've all had 4wd, the ones with good after market traction devices did the best. Grand Cherokee and Toyota pickup with open diffs were the worse. Old beater Cherokee XJ with a front locker did the best. I typically hunt pigs in the winter in the coastal mountains of Mendocino and Sonoma. This past weekend, it pi$$ed rain on us for 48 hours straight, and the roads were like vaseline. Even my buddy's Polaris Ranger was sliding in 4wd, but did better when two of us jumped in the back. Came home with a chest cold and sinus infection. :-( Still worth it though.
 
#7 ·
I was in the Payson area just as El Nino was kicking off and using a Jeep Rubicon. I was slippin and slidin everywhere! Slid off the road going around 5mph and had to use the diff locker when 4-lo wasn't cutting it. I definitely would NOT have made it out of there in a 2x w/ nice tires. I could have been DOOMED in some spots if I wasn't as careful as I was. IDK if this helps any.
 
#8 ·
I have had 2x trucks in the past and decided I wouldn't have another. A front wheel in a shallow ditch of 6" depth and it can be hard to get out. Lockers would be the best-air lockers for selectable and Detroit for automatic with weight in bed, 300-400lbs. LS I don't think would be much benefit unless you have 4x4. Tires are an old argument, I remember my uncle's discussing narrow hard Tires vs wide soft Tires back in the 1970's and explaining why their choice was better. I just use mud terrain Tires like Cooper discoverer STT with good results. Ideally if you have 2x truck just stay on better roads.
 
#10 ·
WY has crazy mud as well, had never experienced anything like it. I took the locals advice and put chains on my tires. Worked like a charm. I do have 4x4 though. Not sure it is the same kind of mud. Apparently the local mines use this mud as a lubricant and I found out why. You slide even while stopped.
 
#12 ·
Yeah, Seems to me the lighter trucks I've owned- like my Tundra- have been better 4 wheelers than my heavier 3/4 ton diesels.

When the mud gets that bad I usually resort to my Quad....sorry, no good 4wd tips here. The Anti lock braking systems in the new trucks have given me fits when sliding down hills in the mud- they don't let you skid steer just freewheel...so quad is my solution.
 
#14 ·
What kind of mud we talking about here?
If its the kind that is only a couple inches deep but sticks to everything. The tires that clean themselves are going to be key.

If its mud that is two feet deep. Then momentum is the key.
 
#17 ·
this right here....

i have played in the mud since i was a little kid on a farm and in the mountains around southern oregon and northern california. several inches of mud in a puddle is kids play here. we have a lot of areas were you could swallow stock height vehicles in shallow looking water crossings.

momentum is your friend in all aspects of mud and water crossings, but not fast, once you loose your momentum your screwed. 4x4s are king for playing in the mud no question about it. to make a 2wd vehicle okay in the mud takes money. locker in the rear (selectable preferred), good aggressive mud tires (wider is better for mud), and in the end a good winch on the front or hitch mount that has all the tools to get you out of the situation (desert tools or tree straps).

the cheapest route would be the winch. you can setup a winch to remote hitch mount front and rear for around 500 bucks. the selectable locker route is in the $1500 range ($1000 for arb byself before compressor and other odds and ends) unless you buy used parts. then there are tires and you can break the bank getting different tire combos.

i had a rock crawler setup for all these types of shenanigans and found myself with a light wallet and not a very road friendly rig in the end when i finally sold it for far less then i put into it. if you have the funds laying around i would get a little 4X4 toyota tacoma, put some mud terrain tires on it, have a remote mount winch and call it a day.
 
#18 ·
I can relate. I try to avoid really bad roads with my Dodge Ram 2500. At 7,000 lbs., it would be really hard to make unstuck. Shovel and a come-along wouldn't cut it. I got it stuck in Lake County one winter in a very steep ditch and had to wait until the next day when a 4wd 2-ton wrecker could pull me out. Never again. Expensive too. :(
 
#20 ·
I had a 2x truck that I put a 55gal drum in the bed on blocks of wood to keep from rolling around. Filled with water as needed. It did OK. If get truck inner tubes, cut them down and fill with sand then tie both ends closed. Should last longer than those bags or tubes and won't roll around in the bed.
 
#21 ·
dont know what part of AZ you're hunting... I hunt in the northern part and the mud is greasy and is difficult to clear out of any tread. I have a 4x4 tacoma and keep it in 4 high and keep on the gas peddle when crossing muddy flats. I would continue to do what you have been doing by keeping your foot on the gas. Can't say if more weight in the back will help you or not. I have found that tall skinny tires with a good aggressive tread work the best for me.
 
#24 ·
Same area likely...between Kingman & Flag. The snakes usually last 8-10 yrs and take up less space plus they come in handy for all kinds of things...holding camp tarp down, securing a load...nothing really moves on a BedRug unless it's round like a ball.
 
#22 ·
Pizza cutting super swampers, a Detroit locker and 300lbs over each tire in the bed. Keep a handyman and a set of chains on hand. Carry An old axle shaft,buried into the ground it makes a great winch point for the handyman and some chain or tow rope. Handymans are dangerous but if used right can get ya outta almost any situation.
 
#25 ·
I agree for most road type mud after rain where there is a base taller skinny tires with good tread will normally get you down to some dry ground. Weight will help and a limited slip or locker would help more than anything. With an open diff as soon as one cuts loose you are up @@'t creek. Lots of hp and deep tread works in all mud but isn't practical. IMO a lightweight vehicle with 4 wheel drive and decent ground clearance are the best all around for a hunting rig. Older Cherokees are only a couple grand all set up and then you don't have to worry about dents and scratches. You have more money in your pack then I've had in some of my hunting rigs over the years;)

I think a Tacoma would be a good all around rig if you get an off road package, they are expensive though. Personally I have a Xterra for most of my hunting and it gets around very well in the mud and snow and is easy to turn around in the woods and drives great. I can also lay down the rear seat and sleep two big men in the back. I just bought a jeep TJ with a lift, lockers and 35's I'm putting a good winch on it and it will be my high country rig where I need ground clearance and lockers for wet steep rocky roads.

IMO the rougher the road the more animals are at the end of it because most guys turn around before they get there. One of the spots I hunt I very bad and a 15 mile walk in from where your average open diff four wheel drive make it.
 
#26 ·
An old pos 4Runner with a $400 locker will take you everywhere you wanna be including some places you shouldn't be. Dime a dozen on cl! The 4cyl is far superior to the v6!

It's been said once here but I'd like to re-iterate that a full size pick up with 4x4 is garbage in the nasty. My 4Runner beats my cummins all day long hands down off road.
 
#27 ·
I think this may sound strange but it depends on the type of mud. LOL
Some mud has no "bottom"...making weight an enemy.
Some mud has a "bottom" and sinking through that to a harder pack helps. For example: "Adobe mud", what some guys call the mud around here, is horrible. Slick as hell and will stick to the tires and actually form a hollow cylinder extending off the tire before peeling away. But it usually absorbs lots of water and leaves a "harder" pack somewhere below. (Unless you go "cross country" where the hard pack may be feet below.lol) I've driven my diesel through +16", sinking into the road, while my buddies lighter truck "floated" and ended up in the bar ditch. Mud without bottom? Unless your truck is especially equipped for this, I'd just wait for it to dry a little. lol. Much easier than digging out a bottomed-out truck.lol

Colorado 4x4 "mountain"(USFS) roads are predominately granite pack or cobble and larger rock with fine dirt intermixed. The later can become slick with the possibility of getting stuck between rocks. Mud isn't the problem up there though... that freak snow storm covering a 4x4 road can be disastrous when the snow hides the obstacles. Broke a tie rod once sliding off a snow covered rock. I now avoid those roads if snow is possible.....just isn't worth it.
 
#28 ·
I imagine that the Az mud is similar to what we have in NM, especially since I often hunt right up the the Az border.

Usually the mud is not too deep, and the goal is to and dig through to solid ground. The best thing for this is chains if you have 2WD, and sometimes if you have 4WD. Yes, I realize they are a pain, but so is getting stuck. Narrow tires are better. The wider your tires, the more you will distribute your weight and the harder it will be to dig down to the solid stuff. It's the same principle as snow skis. Obviously, if the mud is deeper than your axles, all bets are off.

More weight in the back of your truck will help. SUVs tend to do better, because the back has more weight.

Much of the soil we have in the SW is caliche. It gets almost as slick as ice with just a little bit of water. It's possible to slide off a road with just a minor slope, even in 4WD. If it's wet due to a thunderstorm, it may be best to just wait an hour or so after the rain quits because it usually drains fairly quickly.

I've had 4WD trucks and SUVs for over 35 years. Most of my "4 wheeling" these days is done on an ATV. Those little machines are incredible. They make it easy to avoid the majority of the mud holes that might get a truck stuck. You can usually make much better time on the forest roads. Yeah, they don't give you any protection from the elements, but you just dress for it.
 
#29 ·
One place I hunt hogs here in So. Cal. has a dirt road that drops down about a mile to a turn around and the trailhead. Any rain makes it a white knuckler in my buddies uber-heavy 4X4. Barely made in and outta there a couple of times. Literally gotta crawl through there to avoid slipping. Dicey as hell. Would never try it in my truck in winter.
 
#30 ·
I'm no soils engineer, but one thing I've noticed when off roading, is that the color of the dirt indicates what type of traction you'll have.

My observations: Yellow dirt is the worse - slick like snot when wet, powdery soft when dry = no traction ever. Red dirt is almost as bad as yellow dirt, except when dry, it's crumbly like little ball bearings under your tires. Dark brown dirt has best traction in my opinion, wet or dry. My .02 on the subject of dirt. :)
 
#32 ·
if your tires may sink to the rim, momentum

if it's shallow super slick clay mud, weight

my first rig was a 2w drive, I had plenty of fun in that thing and learned a lot of do's and don'ts. momentum is usually always your friend unless you need to turn, that's where 4x really shines, you can stay on it and still have steering.

I have a Tacoma TRD, and I just bought an 08' tundra, HP is another factor in mud, I have never had and trouble in the Tacoma, but it's easier to keep the tires clear with the extra 200hp the tundra has, don't put too much weight and lose power unless you are in shallow slick mud.

one thing Beendare pointed out, ABS is a pain in the rear off road
 
#34 ·
I love 4 wheel drive and can't say I would ever buy a pickup that isn't 4X4. That being said 4 wheel drive has got me in more trouble then it has ever gotten me out of.
 
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