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Discussion Starter #1
I thought that by now the area I hunt would have some good deer. This year between my cousin and I we saw over 15 diffrent buck and only 1 was legal. What gives thats the most we have seen in a season but why arent they getting more points?

We hunt farmland so food is not a problem for them are 2 1/2 year old really that much smarter that they diappear in one year. If the ones we saw this year make it to next year we will have some big ones atleast I would think.

Then again where did the small ones from last year go?
 

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Before AR's I'd venture a guess that 75%+ of the buck killed were 1.5 y/o's. The number is probably still around 50%. The young buck are obviously much less 'intelligent' than mature buck making them much more visible and easier to hunt. Where I hunt, we saw many more nice 2.5+ y/o's than in the past, but this was only during the rut. Before, and since, we mainly see the 1.5 y/o buck. Keep passing on the young deer, and it will pay off.
 

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i've gotten 8 bucks of 3.5 and older on trail cam from this past year, i've only seen 2 of them (once each) and i hunt alot. now if i hadn't had trail cams out i might think those are the only 2 in the area even though there are many more. they might be there and you just don't see them. that's how it is most of the time in a pressured area.
 

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I dont buy it. I cant even get pictures of legal deer over the course of 4 months of running cameras. I had 4 legal bucks with 2 big bucks out of maybe 15 buck photos. Not good if you ask me. AR's suck.

Horn hunting will be the downfall of our sport.
 

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I dont buy it. I cant even get pictures of legal deer over the course of 4 months of running cameras. I had 4 legal bucks with 2 big bucks out of maybe 15 buck photos. Not good if you ask me. AR's suck.

Horn hunting will be the downfall of our sport.
People being so obsessed with horns that they think they have to shoot a yearling buck just to "get their buck" is the problem. If "ya can't eat the horns", "meat hunters" were really hunting for meat in the first place, they woulda shot does. Then AR's wouldn't have been a necessary management tool.
AR's manage hunters just as much as they manage the deer herd.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I had trail cams out in the area's I hunt and I only got 3 diffrent bucks on them. I would never thought I would of saw as many as we did. I wonder if PA shouldnt go to a spread AR instead of points I saw a couple 4 points that would have been easily over 14 wide.
 

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i dont subscribe to the AR bantering, but i can say there are more mature bucks around due to AR's, IMO, based on my trail cams. herd numbers are down for sure, but, the problem is, in a pressured state like PA, those mature bucks are underground come rifle season due to all the pressure from bow season, turkeys, bear, small game, etc the previous 8 weeks. im convinced our mature bucks are "satisfied" with locking down with 2 or 3 does during the breeding period and dont spend their time on their feet looking and chasing like the young bucks unless you get lucky. they live their lives at night. the mature bucks know the risks of roaming. our deer herd is not in a good place overall to support the quantity of hunters we have. its as simple as that. change PA to shotgun only, and things could improve a bit, but i dont expect that to ever happen, but it should, based on the OH, IA and IL models. probably alot more can be said, but ive digressed to where PA is the place i live, but not the place i hunt. :sad:
 

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is poaching still real bad down there ? i seen some nice bucks the last time i was down there .if you think its bad there you otta try hunting michigan .just hang in there hopefully it works out .i whish they would open up sunday hunting down there so i can hunt there again .pa has the best turkey imo.
 

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I also live in pa and have lived here for 4 years and I have this question. If doe outnumber bucks by at least 3-4 to 1 just how much buck travel do you think they will be doing? The ratio is backwards for what I have read from ranch & land owners who get to really work the herd. I am new to bow hunting but if a dominate buck doesn't have to travel far or fight to breed,shouldn't we harvest does for a couple years to correct the ratio? just my .02
 

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Frankly AR does not work with a points/side based system. If the world supposedly wants big antlers (not really buying that either) then the only proper way to do it is by overall size and evaluation. I would the vast majority of 1.5 year old deer qualify under the 3 pt. restriction.

I have not seen this vast improvement in quality of horns (whatever that meas) since the AR. We have the same AR where I hunt in New Jersey except for a couple years longer. No big difference there either. In fact, since AR in both States I see enormous numbers of spikes & 4 points but relatively few legal bucks.
 

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i they live their lives at night. the mature bucks know the risks of roaming.
most deer fall into this category too. most of my pics are at night and it's a wide range of deer. but of the 8 3.5yr or older bucks i have pics of 5 were either photographed or seen in shooting hours. pretty good ratio imo.

bottom line is AR are working quite well in my area of PA.
 

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Frankly AR does not work with a points/side based system. If the world supposedly wants big antlers (not really buying that either) then the only proper way to do it is by overall size and evaluation. I would the vast majority of 1.5 year old deer qualify under the 3 pt. restriction.

I have not seen this vast improvement in quality of horns (whatever that meas) since the AR. We have the same AR where I hunt in New Jersey except for a couple years longer. No big difference there either. In fact, since AR in both States I see enormous numbers of spikes & 4 points but relatively few legal bucks.
X1

Very well put, couldn't have said it better myself...:darkbeer:
 

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Before AR's I'd venture a guess that 75%+ of the buck killed were 1.5 y/o's. The number is probably still around 50%. The young buck are obviously much less 'intelligent' than mature buck making them much more visible and easier to hunt. Where I hunt, we saw many more nice 2.5+ y/o's than in the past, but this was only during the rut. Before, and since, we mainly see the 1.5 y/o buck. Keep passing on the young deer, and it will pay off.
You do not have to pass on many deer any more where I live,because there are not many left. Thanks to all the doe tags the state gives out. The majority of the bucks we see are small racks and not what they used to be before AR. I like it when I see a spike of fork horn breeding all the does insted of a mature buck. The guys who used to shoot a spike now have to wait for something with four on one side,think about it.:confused:
 

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Frankly AR does not work with a points/side based system. If the world supposedly wants big antlers (not really buying that either) then the only proper way to do it is by overall size and evaluation. I would the vast majority of 1.5 year old deer qualify under the 3 pt. restriction.

I have not seen this vast improvement in quality of horns (whatever that meas) since the AR. We have the same AR where I hunt in New Jersey except for a couple years longer. No big difference there either. In fact, since AR in both States I see enormous numbers of spikes & 4 points but relatively few legal bucks.
this is correct....but......you cant enforce that

you think i should trust you to make an evaluation on the bucks age?? i dont know you from Joe....but i do know that there is a better chance of the buck being 2.5 if he has 3-4 points on a side.

its not the best method....but it really is the only way to do it. spread wouldnt work...weight wouldnt work....aging is just crazy.

as much as i agree that its not the best thing ever....it is better
 

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You don't like antler restrictions OK fine so why not just shoot a Doe?? I know this has been mentioned before but I'd like to here some responses from those against AR as to why shooting a doe doesn't work for them?? An adult doe is cagier than any yearling buck..


From talking to people that hunt PA they say they are seeing more adult bucks than ever before and feel the AR are working. Randy
 

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Shooting does instead of small bucks is always a good idea but when everyone is shooting does the deer population is hit the hardest. In most areas that I hunt i would shoot a small buck and let the does walk because i like to eat the meat but the overall deer population is way down.
 

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You don't like antler restrictions OK fine so why not just shoot a Doe?? I know this has been mentioned before but I'd like to here some responses from those against AR as to why shooting a doe doesn't work for them?? An adult doe is cagier than any yearling buck..


From talking to people that hunt PA they say they are seeing more adult bucks than ever before and feel the AR are working. Randy
Couldnt agree more man. But if the responses you get is anything like those I always get....there will be talking around the point, bashing, and lots of back peddling...you know the norm.

As for ARs working......UMMMMMM Id say thats a big 10-4. Below is 2 of many pics I got from this summer and this season. I harvested the buck all the way in the back in first pic, and past on all the rest in that pic all are still running around. We have had our own AR's in place since before the PGC initiated them. I understand public land is a whole other moster, but its not AR's thats hurting the state game lands its the preverbial PA "if its brown its down" mentatlity that goes back many many generations.




 

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the problem with people shooting does....IMO....most people take young deer no matter buck or doe.

this past year i tryed to keep myself from shooting small deer...bucks and does. i have nothing against people who want to shoot small ones...hell....i have shot a few.

i passed on 3 legal bucks this year....but they were all 1.5 year olds....the only good 2.5 or maybe 3.5 year old i saw was at 100 yards.



the PGC will never be able to control the deer herd with this many hunters in one state. it just isnt possible
 

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the problem with people shooting does....IMO....most people take young deer no matter buck or doe.

this past year i tryed to keep myself from shooting small deer...bucks and does. i have nothing against people who want to shoot small ones...hell....i have shot a few.

i passed on 3 legal bucks this year....but they were all 1.5 year olds....the only good 2.5 or maybe 3.5 year old i saw was at 100 yards.



the PGC will never be able to control the deer herd with this many hunters in one state. it just isnt possible
I agree 100%,but the PGC can cut back on the 2 week doe slaughter and cut back on the tags. This will not happen,because it means millions of dollars to the Ed Rendell fund and he claims that the state is broke. Last time I looked I still pay a ton in taxes every year.
 

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Before AR you would not be seeing all those young bucks unless you were looking in the back of a pickup.
 
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