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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What so far is the PA opinion of Crossbows hunting with the extended opportunities?
I have a poll here that I am interested in seeing what the public opinion is now that some time has passed since the new legislation\rule change...

Poll here:
http://forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/crossbows-in-pa/

Thank you for taking your time filling out the poll.Look around and comment on anything of interest to you...
-damageinc
 

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The first year of Pennsylvania Crossbow inclusion was a rousing success for the crossbow supporters. None of the misinformation the United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania put out there held water...It was a non event. The woods were not over run with "WalMart" hunters as anti crossbow commissioner Weiner wanted us to believe would happen! 100,000 "gun hunters" did not sell their rifles to buy a crossbow and decimate the whitetail herd as the United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania told all who would listen. Luckly the Commissioners chose fact over fiction. We now have three years of full inclusion to provide the Game Commission with all the necessary facts they will need to make an educated decision after the 2012 season. Facts are the crossbow communities best friend and the anti crossbow supporters worst nightmare. Keep your poll the actual hunters of Pennsylvania have spoken!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree that the hunters of Pa are speaking.
I think it is much too early to determine the impact of full inclusion since data is being collected while the "test" is being completed, for some time.
I don't have anything against crossbows but more about how they were brought into the mix and the lack of scientific evidence to implement them. The PA game commission may testing with trial and error. In my opinion, changes that impact the resource should be based off of controlled experiments vs. after the fact.
I have heard that PA used other states data to make the determination as well as the impact on SRA's to come to the conclusion but I do not know this as fact. I do however find it difficult to believe if there is a 3 year full inclusion period and a a re-evaluation at the end of this period.
I am only trying to learn what Pa hunters are thinking right now.
According to my numbers (This is not a scientific poll) the poll is and has been showing some interesting results.
It appears that Pa hunters have formulated their opinion and there is a divide. It is interesting to note that over half so far feel that hunters with disabilities are accepted as crossbow users and that almost a third think that crossbow use shouldn’t be questioned. Bringing up the rear is a smaller percentage that wants crossbows excluded.
Keep your votes coming…and thank you.
 

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crossbows are not a bad thing .some people should shoot a crossbow instead of a compound because they do not practice with their archery equipment and they end up wounding deer. here in virginia its been legal for a couple of years and you cant even notice the difference.compounds got the same crap when they first came out. some of the old timers out there that cant see there pins anymore it got them back into archery ,i like the idea that when my eye sight starts to go i have a option that i can stay in the sport that i like. be more open minded. do you use a compound if so you have an advantage to so unless you are a die hard traditional shooter you shouldnt have a whole lot to say about crossbows. the antis love when we argue with each other it gives them that more leverage.crossbows have been around for hundreds of years.how long has the compound been around for? HUNTERS SHOULD SUPPORT OTHER HUNTERS!! we are a dieing breed the kids are not really takeing to it so who will keep the tradition going?
 

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I agree with you bout lots of people don't practice enough with there compounds , they wait till time to hunt and shoot a couple times and think there ready , same goes with a rifle for that matter . The way to get kids into archery is start them young , make it fun for them !
 

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I agree with you bout lots of people don't practice enough with there compounds , they wait till time to hunt and shoot a couple times and think there ready , same goes with a rifle for that matter . The way to get kids into archery is start them young , make it fun for them !
its also true with trads. In fact bow type has nothing to do with lazy. Lazy is lazy no matter what the weapon
 

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I have heard that PA used other states data to make the determination as well as the impact on SRA's to come to the conclusion
So you don't know if they used the impact from the full inclusion in the SRA's and you do not know how they arrived at their conclusion...YET you still claim it was a lack of science! You do not concider full inclusion in the SRA's enough data? I am tired of the "lack of science" claim! SRA's AND inclusion with a Sundown Law! What more do you want! And add all the facts that the PGC has accumulated and add in the facts from other states....The game commission did their due diligence. Some just refuse to accept it!

According to my numbers (This is not a scientific poll) the poll is and has been showing some interesting results.
Sure does! It shows me any poll that allows unlimited votes by by any one user is worthless. Talk about lack of science! Anyone can skew the results if he/she want to take the time to vote all night!

It appears that Pa hunters have formulated their opinion and there is a divide.
And polls like this only widens the divide. Let the PGC do their job! The crossbow comunity looks forward to the results of this study. One year in the books and it was a rousing success for the supporters of crossbow inclusion. Facts like this past year are the crosbow hunters best friend. No emotion...no personal agendas just cold hard facts! Read 'em & weep!!!
 

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Bringing up the rear is a smaller percentage that wants crossbows excluded.
Yes, they're a whisper in the crowd and look silly as heck being against something the majority would like.

There's more to archery hunting than being a good shot using a stick bow.

In my opinion, most anti-hunting archery hunters are simply inexperienced.
 

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Interestingly, there is a online poll for NY in regards to this same issue.While visiting this site and the Excalibur site and the Crossbow Nation site and the Crossbow magazine site and a few others, I see the link to this poll is posted urging people that don't even live in NY to take this poll to spam the results. We all know these results are not legit and mean nothing since this is a legislative issue. Internet polls in which a person and vote multiple times and delete their cookies and vote again are nothing except meaningless fluff. The only thing these polls do is expose the lack of honesty of a certain segment of the population that will publicly advocate cheating on a variety of internet forums so they can later prop up the results of the poll as the voice of NY hunters. :clap: :clap:


In the AT corssbow area, one person posted:

""93% YES ... 2% no which is telling you something about how loud NY Bowhunters Club is screaming to have blocked Inclusion."

:doh:

While it is interesting to discuss this sort of thing here. The best use of time is spent at your states capital. ;)
 

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Nice to see you back!:censored: Glad to see your interested in the crossbow issue in New York & Pennsylvania! But wern't you the one that told us if we were not from Wisconsin we should stay out of their issues? Do as I say not do as I do???
 

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I'm not in the issue beyond observer. I'm what is known as a "Noticer" I notice things. This time I noticed that every crossbow forum on the web is urging crossbow shooters across America and Canada to falsify the results of the NY poll so they can later claim the results are the voice of the NY hunter. Noticers then have the ability to call BS when those claims are made. Again, this is more a comment on a certain segment of the hunting public more than anything. Even somebody in WI can spot that a mile away.:set1_rolf2:
 

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I'm not in the issue beyond observer. I'm what is known as a "Noticer" I notice things. This time I noticed that every crossbow forum on the web is urging crossbow shooters across America and Canada to falsify the results of the NY poll so they can later claim the results are the voice of the NY hunter. Noticers then have the ability to call BS when those claims are made. Again, this is more a comment on a certain segment of the hunting public more than anything. Even somebody in WI can spot that a mile away.:set1_rolf2:
yeah the anti xbow jerk sites never promote people bashing crossbows. THe Petulant Bow Snobs) PBS would never do that on their forum
 

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Sorry Jim, noticers, notice things. Don't be angry with the guy who exposes this sort of dishonorable behavior. Look within your community that openly deceives. :wink:

Win or lose. Do it with honor. Cheating exposes that segment of the hunting community to what many have known all along. Call names and hope to insult but you have a real life scoundrel on your hands that you will not denounce. very telling indeed. Not at all surprizing but still very telling none the less.
 

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At the same time, all these forums endorse this sort of dishonorable activity by allowing the threads to exist.

complicit!
 

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Sorry Jim, noticers, notice things. Don't be angry with the guy who exposes this sort of dishonorable behavior. Look within your community that openly deceives.
I have noticed things also in the anti crossbow community. The United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania and the NABC posted their "Talking Points about Crossbows"...here are some low lights:

3. Crossbows legalized for use during archery season could more than double the number of hunters participating in the archery-only deer hunt, according to studies conducted by the Ohio and Arkansas game departments (3). If your state has 400,000 licensed firearms hunters, 160,000 of them may migrate to archery season if crossbows are legalized, according to the Tonkovitch study. Over crowding of public hunting areas could result diminishing the quality of the hunting experience.
5. In the hands of a shooter of average ability, crossbows have at least twice the effective range of a conventional bow. For typical hunters-those having firearm or handheld bow experience but who were not competitive shooters, crossbow shooters had an effective range of 64-yards compared to 26-yards for handheld bow shooters (1).
21. Crossbow use in archery season is an advertising push of the crossbow manufacturers, facilitated by the Archery Trade Association and other surrogate marketing agents. No sportsmen’s groups are petitioning for this legalization of crossbows, only the profiteers. (8)
24. Who are the eager, ardent crossbowmen yearning for, petitioning for a hunting season with the archers? Why haven’t we heard from them? Why, because there are no crossbowmen craving a season with bowhunters. They don’t exist. (8)
28. Crossbowmen are not petitioning for change.
Bowhunters are not petitioning for change. Sportsmen are not petitioning for change.
Only crossbow manufacturers are petitioning for change and their motive is profit.
32. There must be a line drawn on what constitutes a primitive weapon in a primitive weapon season. Crossbows cross that line in the bowhunting season
So an 80% letoff bow with carbon arrows, shooting a release with fiber optic sights constitutes a "primitive weapon"??

34. The most fundamental difference between crossbows and conventional bows is that most modern crossbows are now drawn with a winch and braced with a rigid stock.
Being the honest "noticer" you feel your are did you notice any misinformation or outright lies in these organizations postings? Yet they speak for the bowhunting community. I notice you are not outraged by misinformation and lies! Should this misinformation stand on these sites?

At the same time, all these forums endorse this sort of dishonorable activity by allowing the threads to exist.
And at the same time these organizations say they speak for the bowhunting community? Why would these organization post false information? Did you not notice the LIES??? Please share what you NOTICED about these organizations misleading observations?
 

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Interestingly, there is a online poll for NY in regards to this same issue.While visiting this site and the Excalibur site and the Crossbow Nation site and the Crossbow magazine site and a few others, I see the link to this poll is posted urging people that don't even live in NY to take this poll to spam the results. We all know these results are not legit and mean nothing since this is a legislative issue. Internet polls in which a person and vote multiple times and delete their cookies and vote again are nothing except meaningless fluff. The only thing these polls do is expose the lack of honesty of a certain segment of the population that will publicly advocate cheating on a variety of internet forums so they can later prop up the results of the poll as the voice of NY hunters. :clap: :clap:


In the AT corssbow area, one person posted:

""93% YES ... 2% no which is telling you something about how loud NY Bowhunters Club is screaming to have blocked Inclusion."

:doh:

While it is interesting to discuss this sort of thing here. The best use of time is spent at your states capital. ;)
Nice try at stirring things up but everyone that has a 8th grade education or higher knows that internet polls are totally worthless and the results are not accurate. Guess for some reason you got left out on that fact. :zip:


The observer line borders on a lie. Aren't you a registered lobbyist for WBA in WI?

BTW I've seen the same on anti-xbow forums. But as a lobbyist I guess that's part of your job to skew facts and stir stuff up huh? :wink:
And over on the Crossbow forum the post to the Poll is just a one liner that only has the link and nothing more. Thread title is "Crossbow poll in NY outdoor news!!!". Hardly a notice to go spam the poll.
"Dishonorable" what a joke.
 

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You will all certainly recall this same thing happening with a recent online Wisconsin poll that was splashed over the pages of many xbow forums. There is clearly a pattern to be noticed :wink:

Me thinks the gentlemen doth protest too much.:zip:

A little Billy Shakespeare for ya.

Patriotism for his cause is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

(Samuel Johnson 1791)

Again, as a noticer, I am commenting on how this is being done and NOT about the rightness or wrongness of crossbows. That will be done at state capitals.

Some would like to portray this as a grass roots movement of hunters but real noticers will know this is a corporately underwritten push for profit. This is about the money and the xbow makers pushing this idea to make more of it. Crossbow makers using people as a means to an end and paying accordingly to increase profits. While this has been often denied, noticers know the truth.
 

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Found this on dictonary.com:

no·ticer   /ˈnoʊtɪs/ Show Spelled [noh-tis] Show IPA noun, verb, -ticed, -tic·ing.
–noun
1. an anti-crossbow troll..
2. an anti-crossbow lobbyist (usually in Wisconsin)
3. one who is narrow minded, avoids facts at all costs,
4. a "pot" stirrer
5. one who changes his/her identity from forum to form to hide their true agenda

Synonyms: highbrow, name-dropper, pompous ass, pompous person, social climber, stiff, stuffed shirt troll

also see: elitist, troll,
 

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If anyone should know the meaning of "a scoundrel" it would be you. If you were half as witty as you thought you might make a point. But it's all lost on the transparency of your true mission here - and other forums. And that's greed. As simple as it comes.

Profits? Like a new line of compounds every year for every compound bow manufacturer. Or the other tons of items shown at the ATA show. Really is this all you have? Profits, like new $$$ for states desperate for any income to benefit ALL hunters in their cash strapped programs? Profits? Like more numbers in our sport as a whole when the real enemy isn't clad in camo and toting a bow you and a very few of your friends don't approve of.

Purity for an already diluted sport? Compounds did that long ago. Real archery is all but dead. And xbows won't be the last nail in the already closed coffin.

Since you want quotes...........

Who knows himself a braggart, Let him fear this; for it will come to pass
That every braggart shall be found an ass.
 

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Now you fellas is getting way to animated and upset over this. I'm not here to rain on your parade. I'm just mentioning what I am noticing. I share this with legislators who always want to know what's behind the push for an idea. They hear from one or two constituents and wonder what is behind the idea. One of their main questions is "Why now?" I just like to inform them that this is all being underwritten by corporate greed without regard for the resource in WI.

They appreciate learning about many domestic and foreign crossbow makers and that they are spending dollars to fund this idea in WI and that it is a small minority of people in WI that want this and that their actions are being underwritten by the crossbow industry as a front.

Legislators are also noticers so they like to learn that The participation from groups like the ACF (a for profit corporation) is based on financial support they get from the manufacturers. Because of their limited funds, it is necessary they be underwritten by the crossbow manufacturers if they wish groups like ACF to push crossbows to give the appearence of a grass roots movement. They like to know that for an example, Horton Crossbows sponsored the ACF and provided lodging and a booth at the Harrisburg show where they collected approximately 3000 signatures on a petition supporting the inclusions of crossbows during the archery season. or how TenPoint Crossbows underwrote their lodging and booth for three separate Michigan hunting shows where they collected a combined total of over 3000 signatures from that states bowhunters on a petition that was used to help bring a crossbow season to that state and that they have been in Mississippi twice to help the blossoming organization there and how they were funded by Horton in WI to have a booth at a sports show.

Legislators appreciate learning that corporate greed is paying to support a for profit group like ACF and is what is really behind the push for crossbows and that it is really the smallest of minorities in WI that are wanting crossbows and that they are funded as pawns for $$$. They also appreciate knowing that groups like WBH (70 year old, non-profit) and the Wisconsin Traditional Archers (20 year old , non-proft) have actual citizens in WI and a long and vested presence in our state and they listen to our concerns and those of the thousands and thousands of WBH and WTA (and now other groups) members. That is why I have asked all along that there be a big push for crossbow inclusion in WI and that the more outside entities that are part of the push, the better. That is why I enlist your help here and on many other forums under a variety of names. Thankfully greed will be your undoing. Thanks for all your help. Likewise, they like it when I show them how things like opinion polls are skewed by the crossbow groups to make it look like there is majority support. In the end, I find them coming to us to sort out what is thruth and what is BS. that is what building long lasting relationships with legislators is about. They are not keenly in tune with this issue so they seek out experienced people that they can trust from non-profit groups with 7 decades of involvement. I'm just glad we are there to help them. This way, should they be contacted by the ACF or the WI wing of the ACF, they already know who they are talking to.

Nobody is blaming the ACF and the crossbow industry (but I repeat myself) for trying to maximize profits. That is human nature. Thankfully legislators now understand this and thankfully they care more about our states natural resources and the depleted deer herd and the long standing traditions of the founding state in Bowhunting. I'm just glad there are so many crossbow sites on the web that are so great about freely giving of info that I can use. You guys are awesome. Keep being awesome. We are noticing. :wink:

P.S. thanks to this sites crossbow forum for directing me to a website called long range hunting .com for the PSA TAC15 story. the generosity here, knows no bounds.
 
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