According to Ashby, weight forward will penetrate better than weight spread over the arrow.

 

Up front is definately better.

 

I havent found this to be the case in real world. I think what your bow tunes the best will retain more KE and in my experience penetrates best.

 

The higher the foc, the better the penetration ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL. That includes tune. When you get to efoc (19%+) that is where the gains become REALLY apparent! Are you familiar with Ashby's arrow penetration study's? Obviously there are some Ashby haters, but I strongly believe more people should incorporate some of his theories into their arrows.

Almost everyone who doesn't like efoc arrows are like that because they couldn't build a high foc arrow with the right spine and when they couldn't get them to fly right, they blame the foc when in reality it was just the spine. It is a lot harder to get high foc and maintain the right spine but when you do the results are amazing!

My current arrow is a velocity xt cut to 24.5" with a 100 grain brass insert and a 150 grain helix broadhead. My total arrow weight is 491 grains and my foc is 24.5%. These arrows penetrate like crazy!!! I shot a bull elk this year with this arrow out of bowtech carbon overdrive at 60lb and only 26.5" draw length (darn t-Rex arms!). This was only pushing the arrow at 223 fps. I shot the bull at about 18 yards. The arrow went in right behind the shoulder but he was harshly quartering to me so the arrow traveled lengthwise through the elk, broke the offside hip, and exited out the ham. The only thing holding the arrow in was the fletching on the hide! So basically a pass through lengthwise through an elk out of a low poundage low draw weight bow! I was pretty impressed!!

 

I'm thinking that this is like why we use a heavy head on a sledge hammer, instead of distributing the weight over the handle and head.

 

My specs on paper with the 50 grain weights will be 420 grain arrow including 100 grain broadhead, 16.77 FOC and 87 lbs KE. Good #s IMO

 

This is your answer? Yes that will be perfect.

The question is not about what provides the best penetration? It's what provides sufficient penetration for what your hunting and how much you want to leave in the dirt on the other side.

Coues deer, eastern whitetail, 200+ mule deer, elk? Killed all the time with a 55 pound bows.

Velocities are an amazing arrow use them for a little speed as well as FOC.

Anything that needs to be exclaimed with extreme or super is usually lame and more of a pain then it's worth.

YOUR SHOOTING A 70# MODERN COMPOUND BOW!

 

As long as you can get them to tune then it should be pretty good!

 

Yep will see. What's the typical tune issue that arises jumping up with FOC? Low tear, high tear?

 

I'm not exactly sure what tear it would mean, it would just be an underspined arrow which is harder to tune. Remember, it isn't because your jumping up in foc, you can go to 30% foc if you wanted to but it would need a REALLY stiff spine and you wouldn't lose any tuning ability or accuracy. The trouble is when you just throw on a bunch of point weight to the front of an arrow that is not stiff enough to handle it. With your velocity 300's I would say you will be okay adding the extra 50 grains up front

 

Distributed weight versus concentrated weight dropped at the same speed over the same surface area should create the same amount of force. The sledgehammer analogy doesn't really work, because the sledge is swung, as opposed to thrust.

 

Might hit with the same force, but higher foc will penetrate better. Think about it, the more weight on the back end, the more the shaft will flex on impact. That loses more energy of the arrow and creates more drag. Once out of the bow, the higher foc arrow acts as a stiffer spine and increases penetration.

 

I read somewhere that 7-I think14% had been proven most accurate...higher is better for penatration . I always wondered what target shooters shoot.

 

On the aerodynamic side a more balanced weight distribution will prevent the nose dives at longer ranges. Penetration should not suffer as the momentum remains constant. Hunting out west a lower 10% FOC improves the long range shooting performance.

 

The nose diving thing is a myth. Time of flight is the same for equal weight arrows, and that is what determines trajectory.

 

Just shoot injexions and you don't have to worry about it. You'll blow through everything. It's kind of annoying having to use 2 targets to stop them though.

 

No desire to buy new arrows and new broadheads to work with their insert system.

 

With the same bow you shoot, I have used both Gold Tip Velocity Pro 300 at 423 grains, and also Victory VAP 300 at 420 grains. My foc with the GT was 11.5% and my foc with the VAP was just under 16%. As far as penetration, it wasn't even close. The Vaps passed through range targets I have never seen passed through. Didn't matter where I hit the target. They either passed through or were hanging out the back. Velocity Pro in the same target, same time, would stop with the point just barely sticking out the back of the target.

 

Another FOC thread for argument. What paper or rubber target needs excessive FOC to "kill?" There's list of FOC in General Archery Information that's been there for years and every bit as accurate for today. For 3D I have arrows with 6.04% FOC. For hunting whitetail deer my arrows have right at 10% FOC. Both arrows get the job done.

 

Not disputing the equal weight impacts on ballistics, but that does not take into account the aerodynamic center in relation to the center of mass. This creates an angle of attack on the arrow which does impact trajectory in the same way the ballistic coefficient on an equally weighted bullet will change trajectory. It is about creating a stable aerodynamic arrow. There is a noticeable difference at longer ranges as the heavier tipped arrow will have a lower angle of attack about the center of mass. In a vacuum there would be no impact, but there are aerodynamic effects that will change trajectory as the balance is changed. For good long range flight a more balanced arrow is desirable.

 

The difference in trajectory on the equal weight bullets with different BC is also because of difference in time of flight. Even though they start at same velocity, and same weight, the one with the high BC retains it's velocity better, therefore reaching the target quicker, therefore dropping less. On a bullet it's because one is more streamlined. If both arrows are the same weight and same profile, they will drop the same. Gravity has the same effect, on both ends of the arrow, weight doesn't matter.

 

To the people that are saying that have incredible penetration with the micro diameter arrows, I agree that it helps but when in actual game the broadhead cuts and leaves a bloody lubed trail for the arrow to fallow. A target stops by friction so that is why the micro diameter arrows penetrate so much better in targets. When you shoot an animal the arrow shaft has a slippery wound channel to fallow so there is much less friction. So while I agree it does help, I don't think it makes it worthwhile in a hunting situation.

 

Deer aren't made of foam.

 

Thanks for the clarification. A smaller denser object of less diameter will penetrate anything better including hide and bone as long as both objects don't fall apart.

 

I generally have a big ass broadhead on front paving the way. So the size of the shaft really doesn't mean anything as far as penetration goes. The weight of the shaft does.

 

The fella in post 27 done a test of what your asking about GL.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1097703

 

I believe an arrow needs some FOC for stability purposes. I think excessive FOC will change the optimum flight path of an arrow. If your arrow is so nose heavy that the fletched end is kicking up, you would be loosing penetration as the energy is directed else where then down the shaft and into the broadhead. Most long range shooters as in the Olympics I believe shoot closer to 8% FOC for trejectory, but I could be off some thier. With all that being said I think you have to find a happy medium for yourself where you get good trejectory yet have ample weight up front for penetration, and this will be different for each person. Myself, i prefer around 15% FOC.

 

FOC doesn't effect trajectory, see post #15 and 40.

 

Thats what foc will do for you. So foc equals more penetration.

 

Use this link it has nice info good site.

http://archeryreport.com/2010/09/arrow-foc-basics-calculate/

 

Micro diameters will penetrate better in targets, but in game while a broadhead is cutting a wound channel they don't make a big difference.

 

Well when I did a test the victory vaps (micro) did much better than the victory vforces (standard) not to much better but better. The vforces went to the fletches every time but the vaps blew through every time but once arrows were around same weight. But it really doesn't matter to much although the micro diameters with a good outsert are almost indestructible.

 

Op by just adding weight to your current arrows you may defeat the purpose of having the higher FOC. You have to take spine into consideration. If adding weight to the front softens the spine too much you have created another issue entirely which will decrease penetration.

If you are shooting .300 spines in your current set up you should be able to use a 125 grain tip and add up to around 50 grains to the back of your insert without softening the spine too much. This should give you a FOC around 16-17 percent. I increased FOC and went with a smaller diameter shaft to take every advantage I could in having the best penetrating arrow I cold and still live with the overall weight and trajectory.

To answer your original question the weight should be added to the point of the arrow and not across the whole arrow. Smaller diameter shaft with increased weight with high FOC is the ultimate recipe for the best penetration.