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After bare shaft tuning: when adding fletchings, should an equivalent weight be added up front to compensate for the weight of the fletchings?
 

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John -

You can do whatever makes you feel good (and a lot of people do stuff for just that reason), but 3 5" feathers weigh about 10 grains, and not enough to matter.
If you really want to, you'd have to add about 20 grains up front to balance the dynamic spine.
To make matters worse, the weight of the feathers, although minimal, slightly stiffens the arrow, which actually helps most people.

Viper1 out.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I notice you said three 5" feathers only weigh ten grains. I'm actually using 2" blazer vanes. From reading the product description ("weighs only 6 grains") I had assumed that was 6 grain per fletch, from your description it seems that perhaps that was total weight of all three? If that's the case, perhaps it is negligible.
 

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John -

I have no idea what 2" blazer vanes weigh, but I'm sure a Google search would give you that number.
However, in my experience with other plastic vanes, 6 grains each would be more realistic.
Again, even at 18 grains, a slightly stiffer arrow isn't going to hurt you.

If you really want to go nuts with it, weight the vanes, and add an equal amount of electrical tape to the bare shafts when testing, but I wouldn't bother.

Just for the record, you know this is a traditional forum, right?

Viper1 out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I did know it was the traditional forum. I guess I may be confused about the applicable definition of traditional. I didn't realize vanes queered the deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Forgiving my vanes snafu, and assuming I did want to split hairs regarding minute weight differences, how do you determine the correct amount to compensate for the fletchings, if it is not a direct equivalence? I don't have a scale sensitive enough to weigh 18 grains of electrical tape, so I can only go by manufacturers listed weights and attempt to compensate after the fact.
 

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Forgiving my vanes snafu, and assuming I did want to split hairs regarding minute weight differences, how do you determine the correct amount to compensate for the fletchings, if it is not a direct equivalence? I don't have a scale sensitive enough to weigh 18 grains of electrical tape, so I can only go by manufacturers listed weights and attempt to compensate after the fact.
I'll second Vipers opinion, it's very unlikely you will notice the difference of the weight of the fletching.

I have read that the a certain amount of weight on the back of the arrow can be compared to twice the weigh on the front of the arrow. If you have 12.5 grains of fletching an extra 25 grains of point weight would even things out. I don't know if that's true or not, I just ignore the weight of the fletching.

Some like to tune so their bare shafts are slightly weaker than their fletched, the idea being the added weight of the fletching will make it perfect. Maybe that would work for you.

In my opinion it's easy to over think tuning for most of us, perfection is not only not needed but may drive you crazy trying to achieve. I think bare shafts and fletched grouping together at around 25 yards is plenty good. This is one of those areas where close is probably close enough.

I don't know what Viper meant about the "traditional" comment but most stickbow shooters are shooting feathers. Careful tuning will make vanes an option but feathers are so much more forgiving of contact with the bow, rest or hand that most go with them. Blazers have an even higher profile than most vanes so tuning will be especially critical to avoid contact.
 

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John -

Then you really can't, because you're assuming the weight of the vanes and the weight of the tape.
I'm sure some one here with both and a grain scale can give you approximates, but again, why?

Vanes are typically not allowed in traditional classes, but fine for casual shooting or hunting.
Blazers would, however, be my last choice, as they limit tuning options due to their height. (You'll need a heavy paradox to clear the riser.)

Viper1 out.
 

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Blazers are compound vanes. I think the only recurve shooters that use them come from shooting compound. If you want to use vanes try something like Flex
fletch or AAE with a lower profile. Maybe to with 2 1/2 inch like FFP250's from Flex Fletch.

Also, if you are really, really worried about the added weight, then do a fine tune after your arrows are made.

That should be standard practice anyway. I don't usually shoot my best bareshaft tune. After tuning I do whatever adjustment is needed to put the arrows on the center line.

As far as legality for competition, check the rules of your organization and class you want to shoot. I have used vanes, spin wings and feathers in classes that folks are this forum compete in.

I just make sure I am not violating any rules. Usually, not, I can use anything in most of the classes I shoot, with the exception of traditional longbow.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Could you elaborate as to what is meant by fine tuning after the arrows are made? I am unaware of any tuning methods other than bare shaft, unless you mean tuning the plunger spring tension, but with that I may be venturing outside of what is considered traditional to mention a plunger. I dont know.

I was unaware that blazers were meant for compound shooters. That is rather unfortunate, since I just stocked up on them, as well as buying a fletching jig that is designed for max 2.25" vanes.
 

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John -

"Fine tuning" built arrows implies walk-back or group tuning and does require a plunger and/or ILF limb pre-load adjust-ability.
I can pretty much guarantee you that most "trad" shooters going that far are at best wasting their time or at worst, kidding themselves.
Olympic or bare-bow are different classes, and the above may not apply.

Viper1 out.
 

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I think youre over thinking it and also second blazers being the worst choice of vane in the traditional world.

A lot of people use tradvanes so give those a look. They are probably a million more times forgiving.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

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Neat that you made this thread as it's something I have been thinking about.
My current arrows were perfectly bare shaft tuned to use 125 grain tips. I recently switched my 125 grain tips for 150s, making an arrow for a bareshaft test very slightly weak. I use four inch feathers, the feathers plus the glue is like 12-15 grains. Even though the bareshaft test tells me I have a better tune with 125s, I swear it looks like they perform slightly better with the 150s when they are fletched, but maybe it's all in my head. Maybe instead of trying to make a bareshaft perfectly straight, we should aim to make them very slightly weak? Because if they are perfect, once the fletchings are added now they are very slightly stiff.
And if anything, wouldn't a slightly weak arrow be preferable to a slightly stiff arrow anyway? Seems like it would be. The arrow flexing around the riser more ought to eliminate some form variables more since it's making a little less contact with your riser. Can't say I'm right, but it seems to make sense to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok, how would you categorize an archer who is shooting an ILF bow with a plunger and BB weights, without sights or a clicker, but not gapping or string walking, just shooting instinctual and using a split finger tab to shoot from a low anchor under the chin, purely for comfort and preference, with no desire to hunt or compete and a max range of 40 yards... and what kind of vanes should that archer fletch with?

Thanks guys, and sorry for being ignorant and possibly in the wrong place, and since we're off on a tangent at this point, thanks for answering my original question as well. I'm not going to bother trying to compensate for the weight of the fletching.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Neat that you made this thread as it's something I have been thinking about.
My current arrows were perfectly bare shaft tuned to use 125 grain tips. I recently switched my 125 grain tips for 150s, making an arrow for a bareshaft test very slightly weak. I use four inch feathers, the feathers plus the glue is like 12-15 grains. Even though the bareshaft test tells me I have a better tune with 125s, I swear it looks like they perform slightly better with the 150s when they are fletched, but maybe it's all in my head. Maybe instead of trying to make a bareshaft perfectly straight, we should aim to make them very slightly weak? Because if they are perfect, once the fletchings are added now they are very slightly stiff.
And if anything, wouldn't a slightly weak arrow be preferable to a slightly stiff arrow anyway? Seems like it would be. The arrow flexing around the riser more ought to eliminate some form variables more since it's making a little less contact with your riser. Can't say I'm right, but it seems to make sense to me.
I bareshaft tuned with 100s. I was wondering if I should switch to 125s for fletched arrows. That was my original idea. The consensus seems to be: don't bother.
 

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I bareshaft tuned with 100s. I was wondering if I should switch to 125s for fletched arrows. That was my original idea. The consensus seems to be: don't bother.
I never bothered but recently decided why not, and tried it. Now I'm debating with myself because it seems they fly better, but a little part of me is nagging that they shouldn't be like that.
 

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John -

You're shooting what's considered a bare bow rig (and not allowed in most "trad" classes), but not using an aiming system.
Therefore, you're using the worst of both worlds, and if you ever plan on competing in bare bow, you'll get clobbered.
For your own enjoyment, it's cool.

Feathers are always a good choice, but lightweight. low(er) profile vanes can also work well, I like AAE and Vane-Tec, but that's your call.

For competitive bare bow, you might want to look at the FITA forum upstairs.
I'd also be willing to bet that the more you shoot, the more your choices might change - just a hunch.

Viper1 out.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks again. I've got some AAE 'wav' vanes on order. I should be able to use my jig to install them. Now I just have to strip these brand new blazers.
 
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