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Discussion Starter #1
I've used a fairly tricked out Hoytt Ultra Tec compounds for several years now. I'm primarily into the hunting aspect of archery, but I do a little 3D, and of course plenty of target time.

I wanted to just kind of simplify things a bit and go a step backwards. Of course I initially wanted some beautiful wood piece of stickbow artwork with a 70lb draw weight. Thankfully I found the AT forums and did a little research before getting a bow. I bought a 40lb draw Martin Jaguar Takedown out of Sportsman's Guide for $125. As soon as I strung the bow I did the obligatory "pull back to test it" and wow, 40lbs is a lot more than I expected.

My Hoytt is a 75 lb draw and I had no idea how deceiving that "draw weight" actually is. I thought the 40lb draw on a recurve would just be a stepping stone. I'm amazed at how heavy that little 40lb draw really is.

So now I have more questions for you experts.

The Martin Jaguar comes with a very crappy plastic arrow rest. I'm looking to upgrade that to a Boondoggle Timberdoodle for $40. I would like to stay just finger shooting rather than a release, glove, or tab. I am considering Saunders "no glove" beads and a Kisser.

Again, I'm used to a nearly 300 fps compound where all these extras are not an issue. Am I adding too much weight to my string?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I forgot to mention questions about arrows. I'm 31" draw on my compound and I shoot a release. Are my arrow lengths still good, or should I measure again now that I'm not using a release? Also, how do I figure out how much spine I need? Thanks in advance.
 

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With a wheel bow, drawing the peak draw-weight to the let-off is brief. The holding draw-weight on your compound is probably 18# or less, depending on what percentage of let-off it has. On your recurve the draw force rapidly builds as you draw and fully kicks in, in the last few inches of draw at which time you will be holding -/+ 40#.

The first thing you want to do is to confirm the actual draw-weight at your draw-length on that recurve, not estimate it.

However, in that you are not yet used to the draw-force of a recurve, you need to find a very low poundage bow to establish your draw-length, but you need to know what your anchor location/type will be being you are now going to use a finger release. Then you need to scale your bow at your now known draw-length to confirm the actual draw-weight; not estimate it.

If you use a bow to find your draw-length that has a longbow-type grip , try to mimic a medium wrist grip. Many of the recurve grips tend to be configured in a style that automatically sets your grip at a medium wrist position. A medium to high wrist will give you a bit longer draw-length.

Once your draw-length and draw-weight is confirmed, then you will know what spine and what arrow length you need.

I suggest you not use the Timberdoodle. Unless redesigned, the Timberdoodle has a flexible blade that acts as your strikeplate. Basically what you will have is a pressure plate that cannot be adjusted. Until you understand the ins and outs of the horizontal paradox, the Timberdoodle may play hell with the dynamic spine of your arrow, leaving you confused and frustrated.

In my opinion, the "No Glove" is a detrimental piece of crap, and can interfere with obtaining a proper and consistent release.

As for a "Kisser," using a face side anchor (finger release) a Kisser won't do much for you. In the past I have used a Kisser to establish an additional touch point, but eventually stopped using one. In most instances I am at full draw but for a couple of seconds and sometimes punch the trigger as soon as I hit my anchor. I can guarantee you that for a period of time you won't be holding that bow at full draw but for a few seconds.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :wink:
 

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hp -

With a 40# and possibly a 30" (it will usually be shorter than your compound draw length) we can figure the bow should be somewhere around 44 - 45# at your draw - assuming it was marked correctly at the factory. Trying to get any more precise is a waste of time right now as you draw length WILL be in a state of flux over the next few months.

Assuming a 32" arrow (yes, need one longer that your draw length due again to the potential changes in draw length) you're looking at 2016s or 2114s WITH FEATHERS. Don't worry if they aren't a perfect match - they'll be close enough for now. If you're using your compound arrows, make sure they are at least 360-380 grains for safety. As long as they aren't coming out sideways, you can learn the basics with them. If you are using blazer type vanes, you might have problems.

The rest that comes with the Jag isn't as bad as people think it is. All you really have to do is cut off the top "ear". A good "upgrade" would be a NAP Center Shot flipper rest. Easy to set up and bomb proof. Do not try to use any kind of compound rest. They are designed to be used with release aids and tend not to work well with fingers.

The "no-glov' is OK for bow fishing or for kids where loosing tabs is a real possibility. They do add weight needlessly, make the release trickier and just aren't necessary. Get a decent tab like the Saunders "stackable" tab or SAM and they should last you a life-time. There are others, but those seem to give the best bang for the buck.

You don't need a kisser button, but you DO need to learn to anchor. More on that as you get into actually shooting.

You may want to consider a small forward weight (stabilizer) for that bow. You probably have one laying around that you can use.

And yes, as you found out, 45# is NOT a good starting weight.

Hope that helped,

Viper1 out.
 

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As previously suggested. Just say no to the Bodoodle and No Glove.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you guys for all the feedback. I will definitely check out the NAP flipper rest that you suggested. I'll steer clear from the No Glove and the Boondoggle.

Viper when you said 360-380 grain are you talking about gross weight (shaft plus fletchings, nock, field point) or just strictly shaft weight? I'm currently using the ST Axis 400 arrows on my compound, I think the naked shaft weighs around 285 grains.

Until I get set up I've been practicing in the house holding for 5 seconds at full draw to get used to the weight. I've been doing 5 to 10 of these in the am and again before bed.

It's going to take some getting used to, my style with my compound relied heavily on a long slow smooth draw and holding at draw for several seconds, checking my level, then double checking the pin/yardage combo, then aiming before putting my finger on the release.

WindWalker thank you. I had no idea the factory draw weights weren't exact. I will get the draw weight measured at my draw length to find out exactly where it is.
 

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hp -

That's gross arrow weight (for the entire assembled arrow, nothing else really matters). A 360 gr arrow would be and a 45# bow would give you an 8 gr/lb arrow, and that's as low as I would be comfy on that bow.

Holding exercises are fine, but nothing compared to actually shooting a couple of dozen for real. Just a different world.

Viper1 out.
 
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