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Real world super curve experiences

8.7K views 11 replies 10 participants last post by  swampdrummer  
#1 ·
How drastic of a difference will I see if I go with a set of super curve limbs of some make. I’m currently looking at the Morrison max 6 and the Border CV9-H.

I am currently shooting a JC Optimus ILF riser, 17” with a set of his carbon foam limbs. Approximately 44-45# at my 29” draw. These are medium limbs and make a 60” bow. I’m shooting an approximate 550gr arrow for hunting mostly. No competitive shooting and just a little 3D

I’m primarily looking for a flatter trajectory with about the same draw weight and approximately the same weight arrow. I’m dropping off pretty good past 20 yards now and want to stay with a heavy arrow.

If I shell out the money for a set of super curves, will I see a great improvement or are we seeing real world differences that are just a matter of degrees in improvement?

I guess the short version of the question is, Are the latest generation of supercurves worth the extra money? I know, subjective and all. Just looking for opinions.
 
#2 ·
So this is only my opinion but, i shoot a set of morrison max 5 limbs and compared them to my tradtec black max and my other off brand recurve. They are faster i will stay that, i am shooting a 50# limb and a 540g arrow at 189fps but they are harder to tune and you need a higher spine than you would think with them. I really like the draw on them and how hard they hit but they are not for everyone. The great thing is that they are in demand so if you dont like them you can resale them. Not sure how much this helps but other than the tuning issues i would recommend them.
 
#3 ·
I went from a 50 pound longbow to a 39 pound set of Hex 7.5 and GAINED 6 foot/pounds of energy.

Since I ended up with a heavier arrow you don't notice a drastic difference in speed, but you can tell you're getting more energy. I was shooting 15 gpp and it was still fast than any conventional bow that I ever shot - 174 fps.

I'm currently playing with Hex 8's at about 10+ gpp, nothing tuned but it's a different ball game. There a very different feeling as stated. The poundage starts like NOW and gains very little to full draw. Not for everyone, but with bad shoulders I don't have a choice. Like very thing else you get used to it. Now, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Bowmania

Bowmania
 
#4 ·
I have been shooting them since 2012 with the Hex 6 limbs. They were a big improvement over my Samick Extremes. I dropped from mid 50s to 48# and shot same arrows same speed. I have since gone through 7s and 7.5s. Another big jump in performance. I am now selling a longbow to get some CV9 limbs and maybe a new Tempest riser. Border has higher performance limbs than any I have seen. The Morrison max 6 limbs I have heard good things about also. Both companies are great doing business with. You will definitely feel a big difference in draw cycle and as most have found with their first set there is a learning curve with tuning.
 
#5 ·
When I started shooting FITA target about 10 years ago, I was shooting conventional recurve limbs marked 40 pounds. I was pulling about 46.5 pounds at my draw length at the time.

To shoot 90 meters I had to put my shelf on the top of the bale and raise with my hand blocking the target.

The next year I went to HEX5 limbs and was able to put my shelf on the target with something like 43.5 pounds on the fingers.

The year after that I went to HEX6 limbs and was able to put my point on the target with 40.5 pounds on the fingers.

You may not shoot 90 meters but it is still a good demonstration of how I was able to gain cast while reducing weight.

I have shot HEX7.5 but not at the long target distances. I am not sure what I would get out of them.

Pounds/weight on the fingers keeps going up. As long as efficiency holds, the limbs should be getting better.
 
#6 ·
Sid made me a set of hex 7.5's, and I'll never shoot a conventional recurve again!!
Tuning was a piece of cake, and I didn't need a stiffer shaft turn a conventional recurve at the same draw weight.
I shoot 52 pounds with a 489 grain arrow at 215 fps. The momentum I have is great, and I witnessed first hand the penetration I got.
I took Sid's advice and went to a high deflexed riser and run a 6 7/8" brace height. Tuning was easy, and it took nothing special to quiet the bow down.
My next stick will be his Moss Trooper one piece. He wants me to shoot one if his covert takedowns, but I love how the one piece looks.
 
#7 ·
I have never shot border, but I love my Morrison Max 6 limbs. I would not trade them for anything at the present moment. and you really owe it to yourself to find the thread I started about Morrison customer service. I know that's not what you asked about but if you're going to drop down the cash for these type of Limbs that is something you should look into in my opinion. performance-wise my bow shoots 11 grains per pound right around 189 FPS, 12 grains per pound around 183 FPS, 13 grains per pound around 176 FPS, and it is very stable quiet and forgiving now that I have them on a 17-inch riser. I had them on a 15 in Riser at first and they were still awesome, but definitely not as forgiving, and for some reason I wasn't getting quite the speed I am now I definitely agree with everyone else that they are a little different then normal recurves. it definitely took some time and patience for me to get mine tuned where they are now, but I was pretty green with recurves to start so I won't hold that against the bow at all. and I think that having too short have a riser for my shooting abilities complicated things, cuz it was much easier to tune on the 17. I am far from an expert in recurves, but like I said there's no way I'd try this bow for anything else right now. I have Max 6 mediums on a 17in Das riser and I draw a right around 28 and 1/2 to 29 in depending on how much on messing up that day. my scale says I'm putting around 49lbs on my fingers. the two arrows I am back and forth on right now weigh 630 grains, those shoot at 175 to 176 feet per second. the other arrows weigh 575 grain, and those shoot at about 183 to 184 feet per second. again I'm no expert and could maybe squeeze a few more feet per second out of it if I was, but to me compared to my trad Tech Black Max 2.0 carbon Woods and my Hoyt Satori limbs these Morrison limbs are smoking, especially with heavier arrows. I apologize for my terrible punctuation, and if my math is not exact. I added it up in my head real quick and kind of just rounded everything off, so please forgive me if I messed something up.
 
#8 ·
I doubt you will get anyone to say their $1000 limbs are total chit.....

My take;

I've only taken 2 shots with the Borders [I shot with Matt Potter and he let me try his bow- super guy, a fellow lefty]....I've shot plenty against them in tourneys. They are fast for sure but louder with a little bit of excess vibration over a comparable quality ILF limb.

I did have a set of the first iteration of Morrisons...and Bob was nice enough to take them back. I thought they were noisy with a lot of vibration. Faster for sure....but I'm more concerned with noise as I'm primarily a hunter. In the Morrisons defense......I've heard the later iterations are much better.

I have a set of the Uukha Ex1Evo2's and the Vx's....both considered Xcurve...[ what you will find is this definition varies from mnfr to mnfr.] I really like the feel of the uukhas. A little bit softer on the back end over a standard ILF recurve limb but equal or better performance. I would classify them as having the advantages of the Xcurve....but they are quieter with less vibration. They are still a little louder than a std ILF Carbon/foam limb- at last in my experience...but not by much.

My quietest limb is the WW Innos [circa2007]...and its about the same speed as the Uukha Exos. The Vx's are faster and quieter than the Exo1's....but not as quiet as the Inno's.
 
#9 ·
I’ve been shooting super recurves for over 5 years and I really like them

I have found that I can shoot a lighter super recurve that bests the power of my old conventional recurves that were of a heavier poundage

For hunting i also like the more compact working envelope of a SR

I like the different draw stroke and the smooth back end

There are a few SR makers out there but i prefer Borders stuff

 
#10 ·
Mileage varies, but this is my road trip...

Covert Hunter, I think Hex 7 limbs.

Shoots nicely, gets same arrow speed with 9 gpp at 46# that my 54# Predator Velocity (speed-oriented Predator) does at 8 gpp. Much smoother draw, very comfortable, but took some adjustment on my part to get used to the draw in conjunction with the release, both in draw force curve on the back end and lower draw weight. Kind of just waited for the string to pull out of my fingers. Had to learn to relax my fingers more during expansion. Also, because of the relaxing feeling, had to learn to pay more attention to bow arm stability for the shot. Got comfy on the back end, but if I'm not careful, I can get too relaxed. Adjusted emphasis in shot sequence, seems fine. That being said, I know some who gave it an honest try, and it didn't work for them, as the smoothness of the draw made them feel like they longer needed to 'pull through' the shot, and it encouraged a tendency to collapse. To be fair, others have had the opposite experience, in that the perceived ease of the draw on the back end made them feel like it was easier to expand through the shot. I think it is something you'll want to try before you buy, or buy used and resell if you don't like it, or buy new and understand that you might not like it, or you might love it, but you risk selling at a loss to have the experience if it doesn't work for you, which isn't the worse thing on a journey, but either way, I wouldn't suggest going into the "THIS IS THE BOW FOR ME, DEFINITELY" before you've actually had a significant amount of time with it. Mine is my favorite bow, and has been for years, but I would not suggest it would be yours. Could be, could also not be. Depends on you.

Didn't find it any more difficult to tune.

As far as vibration, I think valid point, in that the vibration characteristics are definitely different though that needs qualification.

Any 'Deep Hook' bow will have more movement of the limb tips upon stopping, and will look to vibrate more visibly in terms of movement after the shot, because the pivot of the lever (string lift point at brace) is farther from the tip, and you have a 'see saw' with a longer span to the 'end seat', so to speak. This means that the limbs have more leverage against the 'stop' of the string at the end of the shot, and will wobble more, and at a lower frequency. Note that this does not mean that there is actually more energy put into the 'see saw'. This looks like a lot more vibration, but it is also vibrating slower, so in terms of energy, I really don't know. Really comes down to how much, and what part, of the limb is moving how fast, and how much mass does it have, when the bow hits brace and the string tries to stop the limb. If you really wanted to know, you'd just calculate the bow efficiency, and most of that energy that isn't in the arrow gets dumped into the bow, mostly in the limbs. Keep in mind, equal efficiency, higher energy bow, be it from greater stored energy at a given holding weight, or greater stored energy with a higher holding weight, will mean more residual energy put into vibration. So keep your apples and pineapples in different bins. Comparing a 30# bow to a 60# bow isn't the same thing, nor is comparing a 45# recurve to a 45# super recurve. If you want to equalize, compare a super recurve to a heavier recurve that will fling the same arrow at the same speed. This means that the conventional recurve will be shooting a lower GPP arrow.

That being said, vibration in terms of noise, if properly set up to be quiet, they're not loud at all, though if you're talking something like a lot of barebow target shooters do, string walking, no silencers, nothing to address any of it, they can be incredibly loud. Issues to address..

-Leftover energy, what would be put into vibration, is minimized with Enough arrow weight. The advantage of a deep hook, in terms of how it flings an arrow, is stored weight to holding weight, not necessarily efficiency or speed. Border in particular does pretty well becomes their limbs are light and engineered to minimize mass where the limbs move the most (at the tips), but you can get that in a conventional limb as well. A conventional profile limb, all else being equal, can go just as fast if you lower the GPP of the arrow.

-Low frequency 'Thrum', associated with the longer, lower frequency vibration pattern. This sound is actually loudest for the shooter, because of the shape and direction of the limbs. The curve of the limbs focuses the sound at the shooter's head, but towards the target disperses and falls off at distance. Laterally, because the limbs are radiating the same sound out of phase forward and backward, like a dipolar pattern, and lower frequencies are less directional with long wavelengths, the sound largely stays out of phase, combines, and cancels to the side. Limb savers, not located at the fade out, but about halfway between the string lift point and the end of the fade out, where the other half of the 'see saw' moves, greatly damps the greater movement of the limb, and turns it into a quiet 'thud'. You can find this point by plucking the string while holding the bow by the limb in that area between your thumb and fingers, and feel/hear the difference. When you find it, stick it there. Or, if you don't mind hearing a thrum (because it's mostly going to be you), leave it alone.

-String slap/buzz. This is actually the loudest part of the noise component (at least with the limbs I have), and was significantly louder than with my conventional limbs, and I believe it has to do with the angle of the limbs below (on the top limb) the string lift point being shallower initially, which allows more string contact against the limb after the shot. When I first experienced it, I was really not happy. Thought something was broken. Sid pointed out what turned out to be a completely 100% effective fix. A 1/2" square of soft velcro, located on the limb beneath the string, centered where the string would otherwise leave the limb when braced, not only softens that contact point, but much more importantly, simply lifts the string away from the limb by just enough so that when the string vibrates after the shot, the vibrating portion of the string makes zero contact against the limb, but just pivots on a damped hinge, so to speak. This fix is actually better than running materially further down the limb, as zero contact makes less noise that contact with a soft material, though if having more material makes one feel better about having more damping, that's fine. My wife's bow is set up that way, and it's good to go.

-String vibration (itself radiating sound). String silencers. Located at 1/3 and 1/4 lengths from the lift points at brace, work well, as these are the points where at least the first 12 harmonics have movement and can be damped. Not saying that having 2 in any location can't work well, just that 1/3 and 1/4 has always worked well for me. Everybody has their own method. Some like to move them to tune. It really should not take much material to quiet a string if properly located. If it does, particularly if that material is closer to the limb tips, then the source of sound probably isn't the string vibrating by itself. I use cat whiskers, and serve them in place. What is typically provided for a single point, I split, and then cut in half, and trim, to use for 4. Pretty close to barely anything.

-Tune the bow/arrow/you. Better tune is less energy wasted, less vibration to start with.