[nuts&bolts]

Hello.

I'm new to the forum and new to the sport of archery. My friend and I have done countless hours of research and decided to buy recurve bows for general target archery. I have calculated my draw length to be about 31.5 inches (i'm tall) and have selected a draw weight of 30# (which should be closer to 40# with my draw length). My bow is a 68" takedown recurve.

My frustration is now with trying to find what arrows we need to be starting with. I already knowall about the Easton arrow chart, but the problem with that chart is that nobody seems to sell the size, weight, and model in the length I need (32 inches is what I am looking at). The chart tells me the following:

430 • 470R 0.430 • 0.470 A/C/E 7.0 203
410 • 450R 0.410 • 0.450 X10 8.5 247
420 0.420 X10 ProTour 8.0 233
430 • 480R 0.430 • 0.480 Navigator 8.4 244
400 0.400 Navigator Full Metal Jacket 9.5 276 3-39 0.440 A/C/C 8.6 249
460 0.460 Redline 7.3 212
400 0.400 LightSpeed 7.4 215
400 0.400 FatBoy 7.8 226
2311 0.450 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy) 8.9 258
2312 0.423 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy) 9.5 276
2213 0.460 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy), XX75: Platinum Plus, Blues and Jazz (7075 alloy) 9.9 287
2214 0.425 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy) 10.4 302
2115 0.461 XX75: Platinum Plus, Blues and Jazz (7075 alloy) 10.8 313

I went to the local "pro" shop, who told me hat I HAD to get feathers because our bows have a shelf instead of a rest, and a 200 size arrow. Of course, the only arrow that they had in that configuration was a $120 set of carbon arrows. Our bows do have a shelf arrow rest, but are pre-drilled to add an arrow rest if we choose.

So here's my question...can someone please just point us in the right direction for a cheap but decent beginners arrow...what brand, model, tip weight, veins or feathers, shaft size, do we need an arrow rest or just the shelf, etc etc, for simple target shooting. Any advice will help, since at this point I would raher go to the local hardware store and buy some wooden dowls just so I can have something to shoot (ok, not really, I'm just expressing my frustration). Thanks.

Just a quick double check.

What is your wingspan length?

Stand with your back against the wall.

Shoulders down, and natural.

Arms horizontal and arms, elbows, hands (palms)
flat against the wall, with fingers flat against the wall.

Mark the end of the middle fingertips.

What is this length?

Do not stretch your shoulders out,
just leave them down and natural.

 

[Pioneerford]

79"

 

[Nightimer]

If you are shooting that draw length a 68inch bow could be considered too short.
A 70inch would be better.
As you are a beginner I would rule out--------
X10's,ACC's,ACE's,Navigators,FMJ's,Protours.
These are for a more advanced archer and can be considered much later on in your career, plus they are NOT cheap.
Do as Nuts and Bolts says and check your draw length then a better idea of what arrow you need can be obtained.

Good luck
Nightimer

 

[Pioneerford]

Well, my frustration continues. The "pro" shop said anything around 60" would be fine, and internet research has shown that even shorter might work. 68" was the longest I could find at a reasonable price, so it will have to do until I get good enough to tell a difference. Of course, I need to get arrows first before I can even try to get good, otherwise the bow will just be a nice decoration.

 

[Nightimer]

Bow weight is normally measured at 28inches.
So if yours was 30lb at 28 inches your draw weight will be about 37 lbs.

What the shop "should " have done is to get you to draw the bow with a special measuring arrow to get your draw length.
Then put the bow on a scale and draw it back until it reaches your draw length and then read off the poundage on the scales.
You have then got all the information that you need for the shop to supply you with the "correct" arrow.
I work part time in an archery shop in the UK and I measure people up for arrows many times during the day.
The hard bit is them deciding how much they want to spend)
With begineers I usually make the arrows longer than needed plus I choose a slightly whippy arrow.
The reason for this is that people starting archery usually find that they begin to "open out" when they start to shoot.
Over time their draw length settles down and you can cut the extra arrow length off and this should stiffen the arrow to the correct spine.

Nightimer

 

[nuts&bolts]

Well, my frustration continues. The "pro" shop said anything around 60" would be fine, and internet research has shown that even shorter might work. 68" was the longest I could find at a reasonable price, so it will have to do until I get good enough to tell a difference. Of course, I need to get arrows first before I can even try to get good, otherwise the bow will just be a nice decoration.

Hello Pioneerford:

You may be ok,
depending on what style you use
to put your fingers on the bowstring.

With a recurve bow,
I usually am a 30-inch draw length,
and tonite, I was shooting an inexpensive
$100 wooden 3 piece take down recurve bow,
at an indoor range I go to regularly.

Now,
If I shot "split finger",
which means index finger above the nock
and middle and 4th finger below the nock....
this would not work,
since I am using a 62-inch inexpensive recurve bow.


However,
I am shooting "2-fingers" under the nock.

When "all the fingers" are below the nock,
then nock pinch is not that much of an issue.

Some folks shoot 2-fingers under,
and some folks shoot 3-fingers under the nock.


So,
if you have a 68-inch 3-piece take down recurve bow,
and if you choose to shoot with 2 or 3 fingers
UNDER the nock,
then I think you will be just fine.


30# limbs.

31.5-inch AMO draw length.

General rule of thumb is 2# extra
per inch of draw length beyond 28-inches.

You are 3.5-inches beyond 28-inches,
so you will probably be shooting around 37 lbs of draw weight
or slightly more, if the limbs start to stack.

So, your draw weight on the fingers
may be somewhere between 37-40 lbs.

This is MUCH too much weight
for a starting archer, even a starting adult archer.

So,
I suggest getting some 20 lb limbs,
instead of 30 lb limbs.


If you choose to stick with your 30 lb limbs....
then....

I suggest Easton Platinum Plus XX75 aluminum arrows
in the 2114 size.

FULL LENGTH at 32.5 inches
Have the insert installed for you.

Use 125 grain field points (screw in style).

Use 3-inch feathers.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho...=1599&osCsid=60bf7eb40ba19418589ac2fb5992b10a

Click this link.

It will take you to the made to order
department of Lancaster Archery.

$62.99 per dozen.
Feathers are a slight extra cost.

Specify FEATHERS...the lighter weight will work for you.
Vanes are heavier and will make the arrow behave TOO STIFF,
so pay extra for 3-inch feathers. IT makes a difference.

Now, this is ONLY if you choose to stay with 30 lb limbs.

This arrow should tune for you.

I also suggest the Shibuya Plunger button.

 

[DONDEERE]

Hello.

I'm new to the forum and new to the sport of archery. My friend and I have done countless hours of research and decided to buy recurve bows for general target archery. I have calculated my draw length to be about 31.5 inches (i'm tall) and have selected a draw weight of 30# (which should be closer to 40# with my draw length). My bow is a 68" takedown recurve.

My frustration is now with trying to find what arrows we need to be starting with. I already knowall about the Easton arrow chart, but the problem with that chart is that nobody seems to sell the size, weight, and model in the length I need (32 inches is what I am looking at). The chart tells me the following:

430 • 470R 0.430 • 0.470 A/C/E 7.0 203
410 • 450R 0.410 • 0.450 X10 8.5 247
420 0.420 X10 ProTour 8.0 233
430 • 480R 0.430 • 0.480 Navigator 8.4 244
400 0.400 Navigator Full Metal Jacket 9.5 276 3-39 0.440 A/C/C 8.6 249
460 0.460 Redline 7.3 212
400 0.400 LightSpeed 7.4 215
400 0.400 FatBoy 7.8 226
2311 0.450 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy) 8.9 258
2312 0.423 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy) 9.5 276
2213 0.460 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy), XX75: Platinum Plus, Blues and Jazz (7075 alloy) 9.9 287
2214 0.425 X7 Eclipse and Cobalt (7178-T9 alloy) 10.4 302
2115 0.461 XX75: Platinum Plus, Blues and Jazz (7075 alloy) 10.8 313

I went to the local "pro" shop, who told me hat I HAD to get feathers because our bows have a shelf instead of a rest, and a 200 size arrow. Of course, the only arrow that they had in that configuration was a $120 set of carbon arrows. Our bows do have a shelf arrow rest, but are pre-drilled to add an arrow rest if we choose.

So here's my question...can someone please just point us in the right direction for a cheap but decent beginners arrow...what brand, model, tip weight, veins or feathers, shaft size, do we need an arrow rest or just the shelf, etc etc, for simple target shooting. Any advice will help, since at this point I would raher go to the local hardware store and buy some wooden dowls just so I can have something to shoot (ok, not really, I'm just expressing my frustration). Thanks.

...your Dealer was CORRECT when he recommended that you use FEATHERS because you presently have a "shelf" from which you are potentially going to be shooting from...

...virtually anyone who shoots from a "shelf" will use Feathers as they are the most "forgiving" for this set up...

...Arrows: a decent and cheap arrow to use would be any of the XX75 arrows from EASTON that will match the "spine" of your rig...they come somewhere around 32 or so inches, so a long draw person such as yourself will have plenty of arrow and not have to be worried about pulling them off the shelf once they are inserted and fletched up...

...Point Weight: that is up to you, but for no more pounds than you are stateing in your reply...you can do I would guess, from 75gr on up...100gr and 125gr being more of a standard with longbow/recurve shooters as this helps get the FOC(front of center) to a point where arrow stabilization after the shot is quicker to recover for better arrow "grouping"...

...Fletching's: if you stay with shooting off the shelf, which is fine...i would suggest either a 3, 4 or 5 inch Gateway Feather of some sort...fletched with an offset or helical style...shooting from the shelf does not lend itself to the usage of "rubber" vanes well at all...they will cause more arrow "kicking" than the feathers...

...I would be glad to help you further when I get to the store tomorrow...there are many, many choices for your configuration...

...but if I were you, I wouldn't be too hard on your local "Pro Shop"...it sounds as if he was "attempting" to give you good advice...although it sounds as if you were leary of what you were hearing...

...while you may have thought you could just walk in and walk out for under 20 bucks and have everything you need for your set up in order to do some "simple target shooting"...

...for the most part, that is not going to be a reality...

...there are subtle nuances such as "glue on" or "tunable" nocks for the arrows you choose...while glue on are cheaper, the tunable nocked arrows will cost a little bit more but will allow you to "tune" them to your bow in order to get the best clearence for your fletchings as they pass over the shelf...

...there are also some very nice looking "woodgrained" carbon arrows that will work for your set up too...

...there are also cedar shaft arrows that can be used!!...

...anyway...we'll get you straightened out before long :darkbeer:

...but please, before you continue to throw down on your local "pro shop" as though he/she is some sort of idiot when it comes to "your set up"...undeerestand you aren't in possession of enough knowledge to do so...just yet!! :wink:

 

[DONDEERE]

...man, I must type too slow

...or it could be the several breaks I took while watching Murder She Wrote reruns with my wife!! :wink:

...good stuff from NIGHTIMER and NUTS & BOLTS!! :darkbeer:

 

[Pioneerford]

Thank you all for this information. I realize that everyone will have their own personal preference, but sometimes having access to a resource as large as the world wide web can make things more frustrating than useful. I love my local pro shop, they are the ones that have taught me most of what I know about archery, and I have only purchased finger gloves from them so far! I appologize if it sounded like I was putting them down, that was not my intent.

I intend to get into this sport the right way. I got a decent bow (well, it's on order), and I want to get decent arrows, just not ones that cost a third of the bow! I'm looking to spend hopefully around $40-$50 on a set of arrows if possible, but again, I'd rather do right than do cheap. Thanks again for the information.

 

[Dave V]

Welcome to the world of archery! You came to the right place. There's a LOT of information here. Some of it is even right! :wink: So far though you've been answered by some of the best. Put Nuts and Bolts on your friend list and read everything he writes.

BTW, What bow did you end up buying?

 

[strcpy]

There are many different opinions - were I to pick anyone on here (including myself) I would go with nuts&bolts. I'm too lazy to read his responses so I will give mine.

First off recurves are MUCH less consistent between people than compounds with releases to be exact. The Easton charts are using an Olympic Bow with wood core limbs. If you are using foam core limbs they will be weak (and in some cases *really* weak). If you are shooting traditional (wooden riser, off the shelf, 125gr point, etc) then it is just plain wrong most of the time. The best chart I've seen for them (both longbow and recurve) is one listed on OL Adcock's site at http://www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm

Even then there are all sorts of things that can affect it enough to be quite different. It will change as your release improves (or gets worse) and your bow will not necessarily shoot the same as others.

Since your riser is drilled for a plunger and it is 68" the Easton charts should be good for that setup - it's really what it is based on. Most likely the variation you will find can be tuned out by the plunger. However there are classes that you can not shoot that setup so be aware of that. If you just want to shoot then it doesn't really matter.

The best advice is to pick a chart based on our setup and then find a local shop where you can purcahse on or two arrows (or find a club where you can hopefully get a few arrows to try out). For a wooden off the shelf pick the OL Adcock site (even with a 68" bow, though you may subtract a couple of pounds because of that) and yes, you will pretty much have to shoot feathers. If it is absolutely perfect then you can do vanes but it must be *perfect*. In all the arrows I have I only have one that can shoot vanes out of my 55# at 28" (I draw 28): an ACC 3-49 with a 250 grain point.

Recurves are not only more critical in spine selection than compounds but are also harder to get off a chart. For cheap arrows you can pretty much work with either Easton Jazz or Platinums - I can usualy find those recurve sized arrows in both of them at a reasonable price. Just be glad you aren't having to blindly purchase ACE's (or higher) which I will need to do in a fairly short amount of time (I will get the same static spine my ACC's are and hope the ACE's are close enough). At least with my traditional bow I know the spine I need well (2016 with the 45# limbs and 2117 with 55# limbs) and those arrows are cheap.

 

[Pioneerford]

Thanks again for everyone's reply.

We ended up going with Quinn Comet XL's...many good reviews, decent price, and best of all made in the good-ol USA.

So, The most specific recommendation I see so far is to go with Easton Platinum Plus XX75 aluminum arrows in the 2114 size, full-length, 125 grain tip and 3 inch feathers. What does that mean exactly? Is that considered a stiff or weak shaft? How will I be able to tell how well that particular combination performs? In other words, what sympoms will show I need to go more/less stiff? What other options would I have in that size/stiffness/price range and still be OK?

We plan on staying as tradiitonal as possible, to learn the real basics of archery. I have no clue what a plunger is or what it does (well, I have a better idea now that I googled it but I'm still not sure what it does to the arrow). I was planning on just shooting off of the shelf, at least for now, using my fingers to release. No other fancy stuff yet.

My buddy and I are pretty much teaching ourselves this new sport, trying to learn everything on our own. The arrow selecton process has been the hardest part so far (although tuning our bow when it arrives I'm sure will be interesting as well)

P.S. He has a 29" draw with a 35# bow (at 28") that is 66" in length. Any suggested arrow for him? Thanks again. The knowledge on this forum is impressive to say the least.

 

[MikeK]

The advice you got from Nuts & Bolts and Don Deere re: the Easton XX75 Platinum Plus arrows is solid gold. These are excellent arrows for the very reasonable price. In fact I've found them to be as good if not better than some I've paid twice the price for. You can't go wrong with them.

XX75s come with Easton Uni-bushings which accept tunable "G-nocks." As Don Deere explained, these nocks are superior to glue-ons because they are not permanently fixed in position but are easily twisted to adjust for rest clearance. Also, Easton Uni-bushings are beveled to deflect direct hits which can damage an arrow. And when you get really good and start "stacking" arrows in the ten ring and busting them with dead-on hits, the G-nocks are easy to pull out and push in a replacement.

 

[nuts&bolts]

Thanks again for everyone's reply.

We ended up going with Quinn Comet XL's...many good reviews, decent price, and best of all made in the good-ol USA.

So, The most specific recommendation I see so far is to go with Easton Platinum Plus XX75 aluminum arrows in the 2114 size, full-length, 125 grain tip and 3 inch feathers. What does that mean exactly? Is that considered a stiff or weak shaft? How will I be able to tell how well that particular combination performs? In other words, what sympoms will show I need to go more/less stiff? What other options would I have in that size/stiffness/price range and still be OK?

We plan on staying as tradiitonal as possible, to learn the real basics of archery. I have no clue what a plunger is or what it does (well, I have a better idea now that I googled it but I'm still not sure what it does to the arrow). I was planning on just shooting off of the shelf, at least for now, using my fingers to release. No other fancy stuff yet.

My buddy and I are pretty much teaching ourselves this new sport, trying to learn everything on our own. The arrow selecton process has been the hardest part so far (although tuning our bow when it arrives I'm sure will be interesting as well)

P.S. He has a 29" draw with a 35# bow (at 28") that is 66" in length. Any suggested arrow for him? Thanks again. The knowledge on this forum is impressive to say the least.

Hello Pioneerford.

Please start another thread for you friend.


The Quinn is a nice line of bows.
Shooting off the shelf is very traditional,
and you are going to need to experiment a bit
and as you gain skill (improve your finger release technique)
then you will see your groups tighten up.


So,
getting back to your questions.



So, The most specific recommendation I see so far is to go with...

Easton Platinum Plus XX75 aluminum arrows
2114 size
full-length
125 grain field point tip
3 inch feathers.

What does that mean exactly?



ANSWER No. 1

This means to goto www.lancasterarchery.com
and speak to the custom arrow department
and ask them to make you some custom made arrows.

Ask for Easton Platinum Plus XX75 aluminum arrows
and ask for size 2114.

Ask Lancaster to install the inserts,
which are an aluminum barrel that is glued
with hot melt glue to the FRONT of the arrow.

Then,
ask for 125 grain field points. These are screw in points
that fit inside the threaded aluminum barrel that has been
installed into the front of the arrow for you, by Lancaster Archery.

Then,
ask for Gateway 3-inch feathers. Lancaster will install
3-inch feathers for you in the back of the arrow.

You will get a dozen, completely assembled arrows in a white box,
delivered to your door step.

Also ask for Easton size LARGE, g-nocks,
which are push-in nocks that fit in the back of the arrow.


Is that considered a stiff or weak shaft?


ANSWER NO 2.

That depends on your shooting skill.

For a recurve shooter,
the classic test is to shoot a FLETCHED arrow
and to shoot a BARESHAFT arrow
and see if these two hit in the same spot on the target.


Well,
since you just STARTING,
you will NOT be able to know the difference
between an ARROW STIFFNESS problem
or more likely,
a SHOOTING TECHNIQUE problem.

You see,
if your shooting techinque is still in the early learning stages,
it wil be near impossible for you to release two arrows
in EXACTLY the same way,
and therefore,
the arrows will not hit the same place.


So,
don't worry about if the arrow is too stiff
or too weak for now,
and just shoot FULLY ASSEMBLED FLETCHED arrows,
and shoot at 10 feet at a large target (paper plate).

When it get's boring shooting at a paper plate at 10 feet,
then go to 20 feet
and work on getting all the arrows to hit the plate
at 20 feet.

When hitting all of your arrows at 20 feet is boring,
then go up to 30 feet.

You get the idea.


Shooting off the shelf is very challenging.

I suggest you either use a glove
or a finger tab.

The glove is much more traditional,
but you will find that using a ALL FINGERS BELOW THE NOCK style
finger tab, will eventually, give you more consistent results,
for a BEGINNING shooter.




How will I be able to tell how well that particular combination performs?


ANSWER No. 3

If the arrows all hit the plate at 10 feet,
then the combination performs...
i.e., after a bit of practice.


If you find that no matter how hard you try,
the arrows just will not hit the paper plate at 10 feet,
then you can try a even HEAVIER field point,
say in size 145 grains (screw in field point).

I would suggest you stick with the current equipment (arrow-wise)
and work MORE on your SHOOTING CONSISTENCY.


You may consider a DVD about barebow shooting,
which will provide many techniques about shooting
a bow and arrow with "no fancy stuff".





In other words, what sympoms will show I need to go more/less stiff?



ANSWER NO. 4


Really,
at this point,
if you have any problems hitting a paper plate at 10 feet,
i.e., ALL of your arrows hitting the paper plate at 10 feet....

it most likely is the SHOOTER
and not the equipment.


http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho...=8424&osCsid=44639eef9ee1e21f7fa1d82d14a9bce8

Modern Traditional DVD

This is shooting a modern recurve bow
with no sights.

The DVD has an excellent explanation about
how to tune your bow (adjusting arrow stiffness)
and how to use that "plunger".

If you don't want to use a plunger,
then you will have to "tune" your arrows
with more or less point weight.

The aiming system and how to position your fingers
on your face, consistently
for shooting one particular distance
will be EXTREMELY helpful to you,
so you can sort out if your misses
are due to your shooting technique
or
too stiff of an arrow.

 

[jerrytee]

One thing I did notice is that your Pro shop said that you had to have feathers because your bows had a shelf instead of an arrow rest. You will shoot a lot better if you use an arrow rest. Start with the Hoyt supa rest, it has a hole which the Shubia button ( that Nuts & bolts mentioned ) goes through.

 

[Pioneerford]

You are all awesome. This is incredibly helpful, thank you very much. Hopefully I'll be back soon (as soon as my bow arrives) with a bunch of paper plates, with a bunch of holes through them. Thanks again.

Eric

 

[jerrytee]

Ah, the waiting, no matter how experienced you are, the waiting never changes.