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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I shoot WA3D (similar to IBO with 33y max) Instinctive Rec div (similar to Trad div) the top Longbow guy was right up there with me score wise, when I switched to Barebow Stringwalking the score gap increased to 20-30 points and when we shoot IFAA 3D (60y max) the score gap between us went way up to a 150 point difference.

It seems these short range 3D's not a huge score gap between all the different shooting styles, it's only when you increase the distance do you start to see the equipment/technology advantages between the shooting styles.

Anyone else shoot both long and short range tourneys, your thoughts, comments on my observations.
 

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I haven't shot any tournaments for some time, but know what you are saying makes perfect sense. .

That's why I have always shot multiple styles and never stuck with just pure instinctive..I let the yardage and the shot dictate how I shoot.

Mac
 

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Steve -

Just curious why you said "equipment/technology advantages" specifically?
Was the equipment that different, or was it something else. (Aiming styles, mindset?)
While "better" or more specialized equipment may provide an advantage, I seriously doubt it would be on the order of 150 points.

However, yes, I have noticed the difference when distances are increased.

Viper1 out.
 

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I think what Steve is saying is, a longbow and wood arrows isn't going to be as accurate as a decked out ILF rig and carbon shafts, especially at longer ranges. But at close ranges either setup can be just as accurate dependent on the shooter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A Longbow with wood arrows v a Best Moon ILF riser, rest, plunger and carbon arrows, short WA3D distances we are shooting pretty much the same, once the 25 yard distance is crossed I'm still maintaining my short range accuracy but he isn't and I can edge ahead, it's obviously a combination of equipment and Stringwalking aiming method just allowing me to maintain a more consistent accuracy on the longer shots and once I'm shooting past 40y you really notice the difference.

When I shot the Dryad Orion and carbons it was very hard to split the scores between us (We were both gapping), the only equipment difference is I had was carbon arrows, I think the extra Recurve speed had a very small part but as the distances are so short, it's not big enough, I would say bow mass was about the same.

Stringwalking is still new to me but the one Field round I shot I was 20 points up on my PB Gap Bowhunting Rec scores, so I can see the aiming advantage already, still a long way to go, if I'm going to get close to the top Barebows in Europe but it's nice to have a good Longbow shooter in Estonia who is consistent enough (at least on WA3D) to compare my scores, the top Baltic Barebows I out shot them by 100 points on a 100 Animal 3D course (60y) max.

Here is a video of the tourney, set in Latvia, around 6-7 countries participated (all in Russian, sorry) The Estonian guy talking is explaining that the tourney was inspired by Katrin when she made the trip to Border Archery to shoot their 3D tourney, a joint effort by both Estonia/Latvia and has grown over the last 7 years into one of the biggest tourneys in the Baltic region, just so you see what we do this side of the pond.
 

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I think what Steve is saying is, a longbow and wood arrows isn't going to be as accurate as a decked out ILF rig and carbon shafts, especially at longer ranges. But at close ranges either setup can be just as accurate dependent on the shooter.
i think it could be a scale issue. the same level of difference could be ther. its just the line cutters are out at 60 meters.
id love to see the score difference is the arrows were 2mm diam for the close range.
for example have you seen the mess 3 arrows make of a small plate at 18meters.

if you had small enough shafts or to scale large shafts to the same scale as the distance. see the number of linecutters you get with 6" shafts.
with those you could be 3" out and still get a line cutter
 

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Steve -

Forgot about the wood arrow part.
The "longbow" thing can be debatable given the types of "longbows" being used. Probably not seeing a lot of Hill bows out there.

Viper1 out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah Jaco Wessel's from Timberpoint is proving popular, lot of mass in the riser making them weigh about the same as my Dryad Orion, obviously Falco bows dominate as they're made here. Jaco is moving from South Africa to Estonia (Estonian girls :wink:) once he is established and back in production his bows will be very big in Europe, he is already selling a lot.
 

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I've been saying this for years.

There are advantages to using different aiming techniques for specific circumstances just as there are advantages with equipment choices and form techniques....generally speaking.

If an archer wants to compete at a certain level in a specific event...it is wise to research what techniques and equipment choices are dominating that event.

It always amazed me how some archers...especially some who were primarily target archers got bent out of shape whenever I acknowledged that observation.

I still believe and feel this way today. If I heard that an archer attending a Vegas shoot won the class with a selfbow and self arrows aiming Totally Instinctively...I'd be really impressed!

There's a reason why archers who Truly aim Instinctively aren't often seen winning archery tournaments...UNLESS the target distances are closer and the target is larger.

Ray :shade:
 

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It would be interesting to run a comparison of IFAA indoor and field scores in different classes to see if the percentage differences increase or decrease as shot distances get further. My guess is they would increase, which is similar to what you're seeing in 3D.
 

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It think it is awesome that you have enough shooters to have to worry about such things..............tough to find more than a handful all together around here.
 

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Honestly, reading this thread is getting me more interested in starting to shoot local competitions again. I used to shoot 3D and then life got in the way beig time. Thanks guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's tough shooting Barebow, one other here and I'm teaching him how to Stringwalk, the other Barebows in the Baltic region couldn't keep up when I gapped (although they seem to be improving each year) so at the moment I have to look to the top Longbows and Compounds to figure where I am with my 3D scores, the goal is to get as far away from Longbow and as close as possible to the Compounds, the relationship between these scores can give me an accurate indication of where I stand with my shooting.

IFAA marked Field is easier, I just look at Euro/World records and try and shoot as close as I'm able to those scores. When I shot Longbow my National records 375 is 10 points of the World records, in Recurve Bowhunter I'm 24 points behind the WR (WR is around 460) with my National records, they're very good records set in 2004 (or I'm a terrible gapper :wink:)and in Rec Barebow the WR is around 490, that's going to be tough to get near, the holder Steve Partridge shot 480's quite regular in the UK and dominated IFAA Barebow for a good 10 years, nice guy and a pleasure to watch his shooting form. My Barebow goal by Spring is to shot solid 460's and work up from there.
 

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As a top shooter you have to compare yourself to the top shooters in the next higher class. At long yardage shoots, with woodies and longbows, I and a few of my friends can sometimes shoot scores higher than the lowest FS shooters. That doesn't really mean anything does it?

But yes I have noticed the same difference. The way I see it when shooting Traditional classes we all make our money on 40 yards and under. The win is taken by taking points on the long shots that other drop. And you betcha, equipment and how one aims plays a huge part in that.

At a Traditional only event, the spread between the different classes and amongst the shooters will be within say 100 points. But when you go long, say like Field then the spread gets big, between the shooters AND the Classes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will just add that scores just reflect you own standing in the big scheme of things, because you shoot a higher score than another shooter in you own div or out shoot another div, it doesn't mean you are better than them, you just shot better on that day.

I always remind myself of this from a Longbow rival and good friend from Finland, when I won 2009 Euro champs I finished well over 300 points above Jarkko, we became friends at that tourney he visited me a number of weekends and trained together and I helped him as much as I could, over that year he developed into a world class shooter winning 2010 IFAA Worlds, European Field champs and European Indoor champs, so the next guy you beat at a tourney you have to wonder, is he at his shooting peak, still on his way up/down, you just never quite know where they are in their archery journey. :wink:
 

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The last tournaments I shot in were many years ago when I lived near a club. There were several of us in the club who typically traded the top spots back and forth. on any given day, it was pretty much a coin toss as to who would "win".

The largest 3-d tournament the club hosted was called the "White Buffalo". It took me 3 years to take first. I beat the second place guy with his own bow. He had purchased a Black Widow recurve and I bought his old bow. That was fun.

Anyway, a few weeks later we took a road trip to a shoot at some other club. I don't even remember where but I do remember that I couldn't hit anything that day. As I recall, I finished the course but stopped keeping score around half way through because there just wasn't any point to it.

Shortly after that we moved away and that was the end of my "competitive" archery.
 

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Oh...scores can indicate who is "better" but you can't look at individual shots, ends or even days. You have to look at longer term trends. Of course, there's no reason to think that trends aren't going to change over time (that's why they call them trends) and the one who is better probably won't be better forever.

I know some people kind of collect trophies...and that's ok. I don't but the "White Buffalo" trophy is on my wall to this day. However, it may not be for the reason you'd think.

When I look at it, the first memory that comes to mind is the road trip where I couldn't hit anything rather than the day I won the trophy...king one day and nothing the next

The moral (if there is one) is that it's not what you've already done but what you're going to do. ie, the important shot is the next shot.

It's the same with everything. Even at work, my clients might love me for what I did yesterday but if I don't do well today, they'll stop loving me in a hurry. LOL
 

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Oh...scores can indicate who is "better" but you can't look at individual shots, ends or even days. You have to look at longer term trends. Of course, there's no reason to think that trends aren't going to change over time (that's why they call them trends) and the one who is better probably won't be better forever.

I know some people kind of collect trophies...and that's ok. I don't but the "White Buffalo" trophy is on my wall to this day. However, it may not be for the reason you'd think.

When I look at it, the first memory that comes to mind is the road trip where I couldn't hit anything rather than the day I won the trophy...king one day and nothing the next

The moral (if there is one) is that it's not what you've already done but what you're going to do. ie, the important shot is the next shot.

It's the same with everything. Even at work, my clients might love me for what I did yesterday but if I don't do well today, they'll stop loving me in a hurry. LOL
Chump to champ to chump. Thats how I am. Champ first day and chump the second. So far in Trads I have been Chump. But I know I have the champ looking over his shoulder. LOL.
DD
 
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