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***** The text below is for discussion purposes only and is the template we have right now for the All Star contest. Please let us know if there's any modifications you would like to see. *****


Do NOT USE THIS THREAD FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN SCORING YOUR DEER

PLEASE post other business, congratulations, etc. on the team threads so we won't have to sift through other posts to get scores. Thanks.

Here are the rules for the 2016-17 ArcheryTalk All Star Deer Contest. There are a few differences from REGULAR Deer Contest so please make yourselves aware of the changes.

*** For the first time in the history of the Archerytalk Deer Contest, we have created an All Star contest for participants who’ve scored 100 or more points in the 2015-2016 regular Deer Contest. From here on out, any participant scoring 100 or more points in the regular contest will be eligible for the following year’s All Star contest. The All Star contest is not a requirement. It’s optional. If eligible and interested, simply post in the All Star contest sign-up thread to be added to a team. ***

All All Star contest participants will be required to sign-up and participate in the regular ArcheryTalk Deer Contest as well. Please keep this in mind that you will be required to sign-up for both contests!

All deer must be taken under Fair Chase conditions and should be measured using the gross score as measured by Pope and Young or Boone & Crockett measuring instructions. If your deer is in velvet just measure it as is – no need to strip the velvet for this contest. Use the sum of all normal point measurements AND abnormal point measurements (add row E column 4 to the subtotals of columns 1, 2, and 3). See the link below for an online calculation. http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRec...sp?area=bgRecords&type=Typical+Whitetail+Deer

Each contest participant can score (1) animal for points (see below) that contribute to the team point total. The winning team will be the one with the most points at the end of the contest.

>>> NOTE: We will edit or delete any posts we see questioning the score posted for someone's buck. To challenge a buck score (this is strongly discouraged) send a PM to King. If your buck is scored and is challenged by someone in a PM sent to King, you may be asked to provide all the individual measurements in a PM to King. The staff reserves the right to not accept any or all score challenges or follow up on any challenges - we've got stuff to do outside of this contest. In the past, typically, wrong scores have been a matter of people not knowing how to score their buck rather than an intentional attempt to overstate the score. Some scores were even understated.


The contest will only allow for deer taken under FAIR CHASE conditions to be entered into the contest for points. See Rule #7 below for examples of how to label your entry as “Fair Chase”. Absolutely, under no circumstances, will a high fenced deer be allowed entry into the contest. If a member enters a high fenced deer as a fair chase kill and it’s found to be high fenced, that member will no longer be allowed to participate in future contests. We pride ourselves on running a fair and fun contest that deceitful behavior will result in termination from this and future contests. This contest is supposed to be fun for everyone involved. Let’s keep it that way.


As with the regular Deer Contest, the All Star contest will allow for members who signed-up for the contest but failed to check-in on their team thread over the first 2 weeks after the close of sign-ups to be replaced by members who missed the sign-ups and would like to participate. The replacements are on a first-come, first-serve basis. If we need 5 replacements, the first 5 ELIGIBLE people who have registered on the Official Contest Sign-Up Thread following the formation of the teams will be substituted in.

If, for some reason, you would not have computer access over the first 2 weeks after sign-ups close (August 8th - August 21st), send King a PM advising him of your situation so that your name will not be replaced. Immediately after sign-ups close and team threads are posted, please have one of your team members listed on your team thread send a PM to everyone on your team advising them of what team they're on.

If they still fail to check-in on your team thread before August 22nd, one member from each team may contact King through a PM advising him of what members have failed to check in and he will attempt to replace them via entries on the Contest Sign-Up Thread. Once a team member has been replaced, there is no getting back into the contest for that particular year.

We hope there are no inactive members, but every year there's always a select few. Let's all have a safe and successful season! Deer Contest sign-ups open July 7th!


1. First entry date is August 10, 2016. An earlier 2016 harvest date is permissible but cannot be posted until August 10th. The earlier harvest date must come from your state's 2016-2017 season and not the previous season.

2. Final harvest entry date will be March 1, 2017 - 7:00 AM EST. All deer must be entered by then or they will not count.

3. It doesn't matter how many states you hunt...one buck or one doe will count for your score, no matter where taken. A button buck of any deer species can be scored as a doe for 50 points. An antlered deer may be scored only as a buck (for the measurement score or 50 points, whichever is larger).

You can replace a buck with a buck that scores more points. You can wait to enter a buck if you want to, but there is absolutely no reason to wait.

4. NO PICTURE OR VIDEO, NO SCORE. Do not take your deer to the processor before you take a picture of it with your bow in the picture. All pictures should be tasteful (don't worry too much about tongues hanging out, but try to limit the blood). You must post a picture or post a video link of your harvest to count as scored!

5. Your deer (not just horns and cape) and the bow must be in the picture. You do not have to be in the picture, but it is encouraged. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSES ACCEPTED HERE! THE BOW MUST BE IN THE PICTURE! If your bow is not in the picture then that picture will not count toward scoring any points for your team. Memorize this rule and don’t forget it when you hunt!

5A. Acceptable photos (these types of photos will score points):
a) photo of bow, deer, and hunter in the field
b) photo of bow and deer in the field
c) photo of bow, deer, and hunter in the back of a truck at home
d) photo of bow and deer in the back of a truck
e) photo of bow and deer with skin still on and hanging in a garage

5B. Unacceptable photos (NO POINTS AWARDED for these types of photos):
a) photo of deer without your bow in the same photo
b) photo of just a set of horns or a European mount and your bow
c) photo of your mount from the taxidermist and your bow
d) photo of skinned carcass with bow in your garage

So, if you have a deer that you left overnight before tracking (or took a week to find) and when you recovered it you found it had been picked over by coyotes: take as tasteful a picture as possible in the field WITH YOUR BOW in order to score points. No bow in picture means no points will be awarded. That means you will have to take your bow along for the recovery if there is even just a possibility that your animal has ruined by coyotes. If you cannot take your bow onto the land where the deer expired (no permission to hunt there) then you must drag what you can of the stinky remains of the carcass to where you can have your bow in the picture. No hard luck stories accepted here: you will have our sympathy, but no points.

Realizing that the photo rules cannot cover every specific situation exactly, the contest moderators will use their discretion in scoring photos that do not conform exactly to the rules. That said, no score will ever be accepted if a bow is not in the picture with the animal.

6. Please do not post a buck until you have measured him for an accurate score.

7. Please post your score (with picture) like one of the following examples – give us the measurements for the species you want scored (we’ll factor in any deductions or additions per rules 9-14):
Team 1 – Rut Dudes – Fair Chase whitetail buck 185 3/8”
Team 2 – Fast Feathers – Fair Chase whitetail doe
Team 3 – Straight Shooters – Fair Chase mule deer buck 154 0/8” (we will net this to 134”)
Team 4 – Shafted – Fair Chase Columbian Blacktail buck 65 3/8” (we will gross up to 100 3/8”)
Team 5 – Team Colorado – Fair Chase elk 307” (see rule 14 for how this will score)
Team 6 – Bloody Arrows – Fair Chase second doe scored as a buck

(by posting the team number and name it will help us navigate the scoring spreadsheet much faster to enter your scores)

8. If you measure your deer incorrectly and catch the error before the 7:00 AM deadline on March 1, 2017, you may enter a corrected score (please indicate it is a correction on your posting). Errors uncovered at a later date will not be corrected. If you have not scored a deer before, you should carefully read the Pope & Young or Boone & Crockett scoring rules several times and if need be, discuss them with teammates or official scorers in your area.

9. All does and button bucks (regardless of deer species – whitetail, blacktail, mule, Coues', Sitka), and whitetail bucks scoring under 50” count as 50 points. Whitetail does and whitetail button bucks are scored as does for points. An antlered buck of any deer species may only be scored as a buck for points (50 points will be the minimum score awarded regardless of bone measurements).

10. Mule Deer bucks will have a 20 point deduction in score (post the actual measurement – we will deduct the 20 points subject to the 50 point minimum).

11. Columbian Blacktail Deer bucks will receive an additional 35 points in score (post the actual measurement – we will add the 35 points, subject to the 50 point minimum).

12. Sitka Blacktail Deer bucks will receive an additional 60 points in score (post the actual measurement – we will add the 60 points).

13. Coues’ deer bucks will receive an additional 65 points in score (post the actual measurement – we will add the 65 points).

14. Crossbows are allowed in states where legal.

15. Bow kills only...no gun, as this is an Archery contest...see crossbow rule above.

16. You MUST have fun! This is for bragging rights and camaraderie only – there won’t be any prizes for the winning team.


Team Score Updates: (Mod Name) will try to update the team scores every Sunday morning, but this may not always be the case due to travel, church, or failure to remember to post an update. The pdf score file and team scores thread will begin sometime around the third Sunday in September and will not be updated more than once each week.

Check your score once it appears on the pdf file (scored through your post number) to make sure (Mod Name) got it right (correct hunter awarded points, right number of points - he's been known to make a mistake or two .... - if you notice something, send (Mod Name) a PM telling him how he messed up - again).

Game on!

Randy & Joe
 

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I like big buffs!
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I'd like to see the traditional 2 deer scoring system. One buck, one doe, or 2 does.

Chances are the final outcome will still be determined from the number and size of bucks, but I think those who consistently take 2 or more deer a year will still be competitive here and add valuable points to their teams total. Plus there are guys in traditionally small buck states that are at a disadvantage right from the start.

I may be wrong here, but isn't the All Star version tailored for those of us who ARE consistent? From what I understood, this is a contest for the guys more serious about bow hunting, and who have proven to be more active and consistent. I think it would add an interesting twist myself-because otherwise it's basically a straight up 'buck contest'.
 

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Awesome! Love that this is happening!

I agree with Carp on needing some way to make the guys from small buck states on a more level playing field. I'm pretty much in the middle ground but a relative newbie can go P&Y in several states and a salty dog may not break 100" in Florida, MI, etc...
 

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I'd like to see the traditional 2 deer scoring system. One buck, one doe, or 2 does.

Chances are the final outcome will still be determined from the number and size of bucks, but I think those who consistently take 2 or more deer a year will still be competitive here and add valuable points to their teams total. Plus there are guys in traditionally small buck states that are at a disadvantage right from the start.

I may be wrong here, but isn't the All Star version tailored for those of us who ARE consistent? From what I understood, this is a contest for the guys more serious about bow hunting, and who have proven to be more active and consistent. I think it would add an interesting twist myself-because otherwise it's basically a straight up 'buck contest'.
agreed
 

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Awesome! Love that this is happening!

I agree with Carp on needing some way to make the guys from small buck states on a more level playing field. I'm pretty much in the middle ground but a relative newbie can go P&Y in several states and a salty dog may not break 100" in Florida, MI, etc...
Both you guys bring up good points.
 

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Agreed
I'd like to see the traditional 2 deer scoring system. One buck, one doe, or 2 does.

Chances are the final outcome will still be determined from the number and size of bucks, but I think those who consistently take 2 or more deer a year will still be competitive here and add valuable points to their teams total. Plus there are guys in traditionally small buck states that are at a disadvantage right from the start.

I may be wrong here, but isn't the All Star version tailored for those of us who ARE consistent? From what I understood, this is a contest for the guys more serious about bow hunting, and who have proven to be more active and consistent. I think it would add an interesting twist myself-because otherwise it's basically a straight up 'buck contest'.
 

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Anyone have some ideas on a simple alternative to B&C score? 10 points per antler point over 1"? Something along those lines.
 

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I also agree with the 2 deer ,we dont have 130-140 " average deer around here like some places in the mid west .if you get a team with a lot of mid westerns on it theres no way a team from the south east could win .

Plus I would love it if you had to post your score sheet even just all your measure ments .There are a lot of good scores the old way but some are way off .I would say it runs about 50% on the scores .You see one deer score like a 140" than another one a lot bigger only scoreing like 115" .

Just my 2 cent's .
 

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Anyone have some ideas on a simple alternative to B&C score? 10 points per antler point over 1"? Something along those lines.
10pts per point over 1" wouldn't work because the buck has to be scored/measured for the regular contest anyways
 

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10pts per point over 1" wouldn't work because the buck has to be scored/measured for the regular contest anyways
I guess I'm missing why not.

I was just thinking of something simple that's fair to the small buck state guys, even in low inch states mature buck will usually get to 8 points. Regular contest scoring still matters but I just thought it would be easier for the ASC to call an eight point, 80 points and and twelve point 120 etc.. There needs to be a way to acknowledge success for people that don't have the resources to hunt leases or go on guided hunts to places where a 3yo buck will go P&Y most of the time. Lots of guys aren't fortunate enough to live in the land of giants.
 

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The Rut Rascal
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What about determining an average score for a buck from each state and then Score would be based on a percentage from there so example
an average 3 yr old buck from NC would score 100"
And from Iowa would score 130"
and from Florida would score 85"
based on historical information someone collects
then if a hunter would harvest a deer in NC that went 110" his score would be 110% 110/100*100=110.0000%
if he harvested the same 110" buck in Iowa his score would be 110/130*100 = 84.6153%
or the same 110" buck from Florida would be 110/85*100 = 129.4118%

The idea being to harvest a buck better than the average 3 year old buck in that particular state.
Biggest percentage has done the best in the area that hunter chooses to hunt
That way everyone has a chance to win without being in a big buck state and typically age wins unless it is too big

other ideas are factor in age and weight and have a weighted average
such as

2*P&Y score + liveweight + 60*age = score
(idea being each one should be around 300 but weight is widely variable south to north and perhaps should not be considered)

with pics of jawbones and scales and a panel of judges(moderators) determines age of pics with average of 3-5 mods age taken
 

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Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What about determining an average score for a buck from each state and then Score would be based on a percentage from there so example
an average 3 yr old buck from NC would score 100"
And from Iowa would score 130"
and from Florida would score 85"
based on historical information someone collects
then if a hunter would harvest a deer in NC that went 110" his score would be 110% 110/100*100=110.0000%
if he harvested the same 110" buck in Iowa his score would be 110/130*100 = 84.6153%
or the same 110" buck from Florida would be 110/85*100 = 129.4118%

The idea being to harvest a buck better than the average 3 year old buck in that particular state.
Biggest percentage has done the best in the area that hunter chooses to hunt
That way everyone has a chance to win without being in a big buck state and typically age wins unless it is too big

other ideas are factor in age and weight and have a weighted average
such as

2*P&Y score + liveweight + 60*age = score
(idea being each one should be around 300 but weight is widely variable south to north and perhaps should not be considered)

with pics of jawbones and scales and a panel of judges(moderators) determines age of pics with average of 3-5 mods age taken
My eyes hurt.... :jeez:
 

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Anything with a live weight factor will favor northern deer.

Finding a mean for score will be difficult in all the states. MO for example will have a huge swing in deer scores. From the Arkansas border where they are traditionally much lower scoring, to the Iowa border where there are legitimate giants.

Age is tougher to judge by body on a dead deer and a jaw bone age is too much effort b/c local diet can influence tooth wear a lot and sending them off for rings just isn't plausible.
 

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I'd like to see the traditional 2 deer scoring system. One buck, one doe, or 2 does.

Chances are the final outcome will still be determined from the number and size of bucks, but I think those who consistently take 2 or more deer a year will still be competitive here and add valuable points to their teams total. Plus there are guys in traditionally small buck states that are at a disadvantage right from the start.

I may be wrong here, but isn't the All Star version tailored for those of us who ARE consistent? From what I understood, this is a contest for the guys more serious about bow hunting, and who have proven to be more active and consistent. I think it would add an interesting twist myself-because otherwise it's basically a straight up 'buck contest'.
I agree 100%
 

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I'm good with these rules we have to remember the work that goes into tracking the kills by the mods. If we make it two kills they will be running two full blown contests. There is no doubt about the buck size issue but in the long run we need to remember this is a contest for fun. The winning factor in this contest and the normal one will always be the draw. I'm in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
We also have to remember that no season is the same. People go through down years and fail to have a shooter in range. So they would still be able to contribute to their team's post total with a doe.

Let's say we have four members, two in prime buck territory in Kansas and two in Florida and we allowed a 2 deer scoring system.

Member A (Kansas) - fails to have a shooter in range but is able to shoot a doe for 50 points.

Member B (Kansas) - shoots a 160" and a doe totalling 210 points.

Kansas Hunters Average - 130 points.

Member C (Florida) - fails to shoot a buck but shoots a doe totalling 50 points.

Member D (Florida) - shoots an 90" buck and a doe totalling 140 points.

Florida Hunters Average - 95 points.

_______________________________________________________________

Now let's do the same thing with a single deer entry using the same deer kill counts.

Member A (Kansas) - 50 points for the doe.

Member B (Kansas) - 160 points for the buck.

Kansas Hunters Average - 105 points.

Member C (Florida) - 50 points for the doe.

Member D (Florida) - 90 points for the buck.

Florida Hunters Average - 70 points.

That's a 35 points average differential for single deer scoring and a 35 point average differential for two deer scoring. I fail to see the difference. So the small buck states will still be at a disadvantage regardless if it's a one or two deer scoring system.
 

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I agree .southeastern hunter have alway been at a disadvantage ,but that just how it works .besides a lot of southern hunter travel to the mid west to hunt anyways. We have to deal with the hand that we are dealt the contest is just for fun so let's keep it simple .
We also have to remember that no season is the same. People go through down years and fail to have a shooter in range. So they would still be able to contribute to their team's post total with a doe.

Let's say we have four members, two in prime buck territory in Kansas and two in Florida and we allowed a 2 deer scoring system.

Member A (Kansas) - fails to have a shooter in range but is able to shoot a doe for 50 points.

Member B (Kansas) - shoots a 160" and a doe totalling 210 points.

Kansas Hunters Average - 130 points.

Member C (Florida) - fails to shoot a buck but shoots a doe totalling 50 points.

Member D (Florida) - shoots an 90" buck and a doe totalling 140 points.

Florida Hunters Average - 95 points.

_______________________________________________________________

Now let's do the same thing with a single deer entry using the same deer kill counts.

Member A (Kansas) - 50 points for the doe.

Member B (Kansas) - 160 points for the buck.

Kansas Hunters Average - 105 points.

Member C (Florida) - 50 points for the doe.

Member D (Florida) - 90 points for the buck.

Florida Hunters Average - 70 points.

That's a 35 points average differential for single deer scoring and a 35 point average differential for two deer scoring. I fail to see the difference. So the small buck states will still be at a disadvantage regardless if it's a one or two deer scoring system.
 

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What about a hybrid points score that will recognize big deer a little more. Total Antler points (worth 10 a piece) + inside spread for example? Feel free to insert some other value. I'm just trying to think of a way to make mature bucks more equal regardless of genetics and nutrition.

This is just a suggestion, whatever it ends up being, it needs to be real simple.
 
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