[steventtu]

I’ve been shooting trad bows for almost two years now, working on my form and consistency nearly every day, and I finally feel like I’m about ready to bring my longbow into the field for some whitetail hunting. That being said, I have a few questions about getting the best arrow setup.

My hunting bow is a Bear Montana with a 45# draw (I’m a 27.5” draw length, so it’s probably more like 43#), and I’m shooting Victory VForce Sport carbon arrows cut to 29” with a 100gr insert and 150gr field point. Overall, the arrow weight comes out to around 485gr total.

First question—is that weight and FOC about right for hunting? I’ve read that most folks like to go a little heavier on the broadhead for trad bows, but I didn’t know if the 100gr insert has the same effect.

Second question: Given the slower velocity of a trad bow, do I need to think differently about the type of broadhead? I’ve been shooting Magnus Stingers on my compound, but didn’t know if I should invest in a hard, higher quality broadhead like an Iron Will or SIK. I hunt thick timber in North Texas/Southern Oklahoma, and won’t take a shot over 20yds, so long-distance isn’t much of a factor.

If anyone else has any trad-specific tips for getting prepped for hunting season, I’d greatly appreciate it!

 

[c_m_shooter]

Your arrow is fine. Texas deer are tiny and I know people who have killed big hogs with lighter setups than yours.

 

[WoodsmanRyan]

I've been using a 38# bow with 440gr arrows and Magnus Stingers for quite some time and have had no problems zipping through deer. Just be sure to post pics when you get one!

 

[steventtu]

Cool, thanks! Where I hunt, they’re actually pretty big, not like the small whitetails down south, closer to midwestern size deer.

Your arrow is fine. Texas deer are tiny and I know people who have killed big hogs with lighter setups than yours.
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[MattfromVT]

You're fine with what you have. Stingers are a great BH for lower draw weight and speed. Even among trad bows the Montana shoots pretty slow so you want a steep angle on the broadhead for better penetration.

 

[c_m_shooter]

Cool, thanks! Where I hunt, they’re actually pretty big, not like the small whitetails down south, closer to midwestern size deer.

If so, you shot someone's calf. Lol

 

[Bowmania]

So, if you had started with a coach (don't take that to heart I tell everyone that), you would have been hunting with your longbow last year and distance wouldn't have been an issue for a different reason.

You're not ready yet!!! Put some dental floss on the top limb of your bow to tell wind direction.

Bowmania

 

[steventtu]

If so, you shot someone's calf. Lol

Haha that'd explain the mooing for sure.

 

[steventtu]

So, if you had started with a coach (don't take that to heart I tell everyone that), you would have been hunting with your longbow last year and distance wouldn't have been an issue for a different reason.

You're not ready yet!!! Put some dental floss on the top limb of your bow to tell wind direction.

Bowmania

I'm a little confused. If I had worked with a coach, distance wouldn't be a factor? I was simply pointing out that my personal ethical choice is to not take a shot over 20yds—I try to keep that rule with a compound as well. I actually tried to find a coach near me, but didn't come up with much.

 

[Beendare]

@steventtu,

Your point weight, FOC, etc are all SECONDARY factors.

The primary factor is perfect arrow flight, ie- getting a bare shaft to group with your fletched shafts.
The experienced guys and top shooters don't worry about secondary factors...they focus on perfect arrow flight. Your best 1) Accuracy and 2) Penetration will be from an arrow with perfect flight.

I didn't see your arrow spine mentioned. I start with the Stu miller calculator...or the one on 3 rivers...and get my spine close. Shoot a slightly long shaft and using a variety of points from 80-300g to test for perfect flight. Between that and cutting the shaft it gets you perfect flight at 20y where my bare shaft hits right with fletched.

It can be a bit of a process the first couple times...and if your form varies it's almost impossible to get consistent results....but it's worth it. In fact, I keep a bare shaft in my quiver and shoot it regularly as a form check.

 

[steventtu]

@steventtu,

Your point weight, FOC, etc are all SECONDARY factors.

The primary factor is perfect arrow flight, ie- getting a bare shaft to group with your fletched shafts.
The experienced guys and top shooters don't worry about secondary factors...they focus on perfect arrow flight. Your best 1) Accuracy and 2) Penetration will be from an arrow with perfect flight.

I didn't see your arrow spine mentioned. I start with the Stu miller calculator...or the one on 3 rivers...and get my spine close. Shoot a slightly long shaft and using a variety of points from 80-300g to test for perfect flight. Between that and cutting the shaft it gets you perfect flight at 20y where my bare shaft hits right with fletched.

It can be a bit of a process the first couple times...and if your form varies it's almost impossible to get consistent results....but it's worth it. In fact, I keep a bare shaft in my quiver and shoot it regularly as a form check.

This is great advice, thank you. I believe my arrows are 400 spine, and I have done some bare shaft shooting with them and they seem to do pretty well. I love the idea of keeping a bear shaft arrow in my quiver, however, and I’m planning to do that this season.

I’m fairly familiar with tuning in general, but didn’t know if there’s anything specific to trad archery or if it was generally the same principles as compound.

 

[CTXtradman]

Your arrow is fine. Texas deer are tiny and I know people who have killed big hogs with lighter setups than yours.

Depends on where you hunt. Nortex has plenty of 200lb bucks running around. Even still, your setup is plenty.

 

[1canvas]

I'm a little confused. If I had worked with a coach, distance wouldn't be a factor? I was simply pointing out that my personal ethical choice is to not take a shot over 20yds—I try to keep that rule with a compound as well. I actually tried to find a coach near me, but didn't come up with much.

I stay under 20 yards myself but I am only shooting 40#, but traditional arrows are slow and an animal can do a lot of moving between the release of the arrow and hitting the animal.
In light of that my target range is 15 and under, 20 being the max. My arrows are 515 grains now, up from 440.
I had a 45# Montana shooing 27” and it is a slower bow.

 

[Beendare]

I’m fairly familiar with tuning in general, but didn’t know if there’s anything specific to trad archery or if it was generally the same principles as compound.

Ok no worries.

Yeah, if anything, tuning is even more important with a low energy setup. You can bump up in fletching size to get your arrows flying better....but the majority of successful trad hunters bare shaft tune. If you can shoot a bare shaft in the same grouping as your fletched arrows out past 20y, usually your BH's will do the same.

I still BH test and shoot my BH's with FP's to make sure.

FWIW, you don't need to shoot a heavy bow or heavy arrows to kill critters with a trad bow. There are 2 over riding factors to an arrows effectiveness; Perfect flight and using a very efficient BH that penetrates effortlessly.

Guys talk about using heavy bows...and heavy arrows....but if you focus on the 2 factors above you can blow arrows through any critter on the continent. Sure a heavier bow....and a heavier arrow create more potential penetration...but if you are sacrificing accuracy to get that- fuggetit.

I shot this 700# moose in Co 30y right before dark with 46# recurve/ 2 blade. First arrow the moose didn't feel it, stopped and looked around. If they let me, I keep shooting....put another arrow through her 3" from the first. She spun and down in 6 steps. Both arrow were 20y past the moose stuck in the ground....went through like a hot knife through butter.
I was literally never going to draw a bull tag...thus the cow tag. She tipped over into a creek- that was a bummer.

The 2 blades penetrate effortlessly....focus on what arrow flies best and has a trajectory that is the most accurate

 

[steventtu]

Ok no worries.

Yeah, if anything, tuning is even more important with a low energy setup. You can bump up in fletching size to get your arrows flying better....but the majority of successful trad hunters bare shaft tune. If you can shoot a bare shaft in the same grouping as your fletched arrows out past 20y, usually your BH's will do the same.

I still BH test and shoot my BH's with FP's to make sure.

FWIW, you don't need to shoot a heavy bow or heavy arrows to kill critters with a trad bow. There are 2 over riding factors to an arrows effectiveness; Perfect flight and using a very efficient BH that penetrates effortlessly.

Guys talk about using heavy bows...and heavy arrows....but if you focus on the 2 factors above you can blow arrows through any critter on the continent. Sure a heavier bow....and a heavier arrow create more potential penetration...but if you are sacrificing accuracy to get that- fuggetit.
View attachment 8363039

I shot this 700# moose in Co 30y right before dark with 46# recurve/ 2 blade. First arrow the moose didn't feel it, stopped and looked around. If they let me, I keep shooting....put another arrow through her 3" from the first. She spun and down in 6 steps. Both arrow were 20y past the moose stuck in the ground....went through like a hot knife through butter.
I was literally never going to draw a bull tag...thus the cow tag. She tipped over into a creek- that was a bummer.

The 2 blades penetrate effortlessly....focus on what arrow flies best and has a trajectory that is the most accurate

man, that’s incredible! And awesome advice as well. I’m having fun learning all of this stuff from a new angle, after hunting with a compound for several years.

 

[steventtu]

I stay under 20 yards myself but I am only shooting 40#, but traditional arrows are slow and an animal can do a lot of moving between the release of the arrow and hitting the animal.
In light of that my target range is 15 and under, 20 being the max. My arrows are 515 grains now, up from 440.
I had a 45# Montana shooing 27” and it is a slower bow.

sounds like we have a similar approach for sure. I also have noticed that the Montana is pretty slow, which surprised me. I’ve heard folks say that it’ll shoot 165-180fps in my draw length, but I’d guess I’m more in the 140-150fps range.

 

[steventtu]

Depends on where you hunt. Nortex has plenty of 200lb bucks running around. Even still, your setup is plenty.

I generally hunt just across the Red River on public, and we’ve seen some absolute monster deer. Several 160-180” and one 200”, all big bodied. The does get very big too.

 

[1canvas]

sounds like we have a similar approach for sure. I also have noticed that the Montana is pretty slow, which surprised me. I’ve heard folks say that it’ll shoot 165-180fps in my draw length, but I’d guess I’m more in the 140-150fps range.

Mine at 27” (not sure about the arrow weight) was in the 135+, I sold it and went to ILF recurves.