Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As some of you may have noticed, I have been a big fan of Rocket Steelhead 100's and Gold Tip 5575 arrows... Well, I started noticing a few people posting that their new Rocket broadheads weren't threading in deeply enough into their inserts... I had never had that particular problem, but noticed their complaints nonetheless... To make a long story short, after 5 sucessful seasons with this combo, I am most likely making a switch... I bought a dozen shafts over the summer, and a half dozen new broadheads to augment my supply for this season - what I discovered is that BOTH manufacturers have screwed us!!! I looked at some older Steelheads side by side with some new ones, and the new ones have approximately .030" to .040" less threads - the unthreaded part of "the shank" is now longer, and there are now less threads available to thread into the insert... They were already borderline marginal to begin with, but had never given me any trouble in the past - to be blunt, this "design change" SUCKS!!! I spoke to Eric at Rocket, told him what I found, and he told me he hasn't had hardly any complaints to speak of, and that's the way they were making them now - period... I told him he was making a mistake, and that he would regret it in the end - he didn't care to hear it: in other words, "screw the consumer - they'll buy whatever junk we put out" - was pretty much what he was saying(although not in those exact words)..

Now, Gold Tip isn't totally without fault in all this... I compared some old inserts with the new ones I recieved with the new shafts, and they didn't have as many threads available for use as those made in the past - making a bad situation even worse!!! I had about 2 dozen inserts on hand(I like to keep extras), and out of those, I ended up with half a dozen that the "new" Rockets would thread into enough so that I would feel confident enough to hunt with them... The other dozen and a half engaged less of the threads of the Steelheads - there seemed to be approximately one full thread or so of inconsistancy between the inserts, after threading some broadheads into each and every new insert I had on hand...

Whatever happened to QUALITY CONTROL??? I still like my Gold Tip arrows, and their "thread deviance" seemed less severe than the same issue with the Rockets... Most likely, I'll dump the Rockets after this season, and switch to Jak-hammers... The whole thing is pretty crappy, though - I really liked this combo, and had VERY good sucess with it...

Just though you guys would like to know - if I had a digital camera, I'd take pics of the "old" Rockets, and the "new" Rockets, and you'd CLEARLY see the difference - Rocket has REALLY dropped the ball on this one - it seems to me that the Steelhead 100 is most likely their most popular head - oh well..


- georgestrings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
That's one of the reasons I try to recomend other heads to customers and people who ask my opinoin. rocket makes some great broadheads, but belive me they are not so good that they can have that kind of attitude! The Steelhead 125 is one of the top mechanicals on the market, but they refuse to sharpen the blades, and to be honest their customer service sucks! Gold tip inserts should be better as well, but since every other broadhead seems to fit, I also put more "blame" on Rocket. If I can choose between two heads, both are in my opinion are of equal preformance and quality and one is a Rocket the other is not, I go with the non-Rocket head everytime. That said, I will never Recomend a lesser head to anyone reguardless of my personal feelings, and so far this year I have several people using the steelhead 125's, but not with Goldtip arrows. Once Rocky brings out the Ironhead XP in 125 grns I will be set!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,311 Posts
Hmm? That's weird.
I've never noticed that because I don't use rockets.

But I got them all in my collection and so I tried to screw a steelhead 100 into a GoldTip insert. ONE turn and it stopped. Don't know if it were the newest models but this is ridiculous anyway.
The lousy service with that arrogant attitude is a problem of course but they will be much more willing to help as soon as their sales will go down. It's sad but it seems to be a normal process nowadays.

Markus




PS: Did I mention that you can screw my broadheads 6 full turns into a GT insert:D .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,104 Posts
I've been messing around with Goldtips for the past couple of months and while they don't thread in very far, the Steelhead 100's do thread in adequately, at least in my inserts. Perhaps I have some older steelhead 100s (bought last year)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
5 shot - My thoughts pretty much mirror yours - Rocket's "customer service" is pretty crappy, the problem is THEIRS, and not Gold Tips, and their Steelhead blades aren't as sharp as they should be, but DO get the job done... I threaded some of the "new" Steelhead 100's into my XX75 2314's, and XX75 2413's, and they only caught one more thread than they did with the Gold Tips - which was STILL unacceptable - so THAT tell's me it is a ROCKET ISSUE, not a Gold Tip issue... Now, the earlier Steelhead 100's I have, have more available threads - I submit that they DIDN'T conscienciously change their design, they merely didn't exercise any QC, then after having the problem brought to their attention, would rather just sell NON-WORKING CRAP, instead of correcting their un-useable heads, and making things right for the poor hunter unfortunate enough to buy them... Either that, or if it WAS a conscious design change, the person who made it was an IDIOT, and didn't give any thought to these heads actually being used - EITHER WAY, Rocket really screwed up big time with this...

My sincere apologies to anyone whom I recommended Steelhead 100's to - I was unaware of this problem, and now that I am, will NOT be recommending them to anyone in the future... I've got a little over a dozen of these broadheads, and will NOT be buying any more - a hunter shouldn't have to worry about broadheads not threading into a particular arrow - especially when the broadhead is OBVIOUSLY the problem!!!

As I said earlier, I will most likely be switching to Jak Hammers after this season...


- georgestrings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
I have posted this before and spoke to both companies.

IMO it is 90% Rockets fault.

Gold tip, though they did increase their insert depth - are still within AMO standards.

Rockets 100 grn steelheads are not even close to AMO standards. The new ones do not thread into GT, or Easton inserts. There customer service is of the worst kind I have ever experienced. Their blades are dull, their threads blow, and the blade screws are terrible. But they do not care - and they do not want to hear it.

I have about 25 rocket heads on my desk. I was going to use them for this year again (just bought a bunch for a great price) But I am fedup with the quality and the attitude.

Rocket has seen my last dollar.

I will fill up that junk box yet:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,104 Posts
Rack,

They sure do blow...

Right through deer ;)

I've never had to use their CS, so I cannot say. As I said I may the older SH100's. The blades are dull, but they are very functional design IME, especially the Steelhead 125s.

That said, I'm probably gonna give the Scorpions a whirl this year. I've checked 'em out at the shop and they are somekinda wicked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,057 Posts
I would look at the package and see if it has the AMO symbol. If not, I wouldn't think they have to meet the spec.

Either way, those things are pumped out on a screw machine. I find it hard to believe they could save THAT much money by eliminating that tiny bit of material.

Seems like a stupid move to me....

Guess I'll shoot the Vortex's this year!

Bo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,050 Posts
Beemans and Jackhammers for me. No problems yet. I think you will like the Jacks georgestrings. I use the 75 grain 1 1/4 inch cut. 3rd year with this setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
I find it hard to believe they could save THAT much money by eliminating that tiny bit of material.
I think it has more to do with keeping weight down.:confused:

Who knows
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,073 Posts
Now that you bring it up, I had the same problem with Barrier Archery (Rocky Mountain) Revolutions. I could only make one turn to get them in the inserts. They still worked and I had no problems with them otherwise. I called and made a suggestion to them about making practice points. They said to flip the retaining ring and the blade can be used as practice points and the blades will not open. I did that, but now the threaded shaft is too short and will not reach the threads at all in the inserts. Screw that, so I switched to Steelheads with great success.

I haven't bought the new ones though and will not now. After I chew up my steelheads and the replacement blade, I am going to go to a new broadhead. People who don't know how to treat their customers don't deserve mine or your service.

Thats why I deal with companies like Summit, Copper John, Bushnell, Scott, Golden Key Futura. All have awesome customer service and they really do take care of the ones who take care of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find it hard to believe they could save THAT much money by eliminating that tiny bit of material.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"I think it has more to do with keeping weight down.

Who knows"


I think that's on the right track - by looking at the old ones, and the new ones, I can see that the thick, unthreaded part of the shank(the part that goes into the insert) is now longer than it once was - so, in order to keep 'em at 100 grains, they just chopped off some threads - instead of actually practicing good QC(which dictates checking product during every production run, resetting CNC values as tooling incurs wear(or replacing tooling), and scraping lots that don't meet spec - instead of cobbing together crap, then foisting it out on an unaware customer)... Any way you look at it, it's a crappy way of doing things, and will DEFINETLY hurt their business... You'd think that at nearly $25/ 3 heads, they could do a little better than that??!!! I really liked the way they performed for me, and had 5 sucessful seasons in a row using Steelhead 100's - but the CRAP they're putting out currently is UNUSEABLE to me!!!


mossyoakguy - I most likely will try Jak Hammers, but I want to make sure they have the same point of impact as my feild points 1st - if they don't, I won't use them... To me, THAT'S the largest benefit of using a mechanical... They appear to be a fair amount longer than what I'm currently using, so I wonder if that'll affect my FOC balance... Other concerns are, steel or alum body??? , and I won't shoot a broadhead that isn't 100 grains(unless I want a stouter hunting arrow for game larger than deer - then I might switch to a 2315 and a Steelforce broadhead in that event)... I mostly hunt whitetails, and the Steelhead 100's and 5575's had been the perfect combo for this - until Rocket screwed up their heads, that is...


- georgestrings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,685 Posts
I put two of my ultimate steels 100 grain together last night.
I put them on carbon express arrows. I think only two threads are holding them on but they tightened up and are working.
They impact right with the field points and Muzzy 4 blades. they look like they will work. So far so good..

Also have some rocket steel head mechanicals but haven't opened them up yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,700 Posts
houston we have a problem here. i shoot rocket and have for years. i also have some new rocket steelheads just bought a couple of months ago and went and checked them out and i had no problem witht hem being screwed in and seating quite nicely. now i don't shoot goldtips anymore but that's for personal reasons and i shoot carbon force instead and the threads on the rockets and inserts for the carbon force work just fine even with a washer involved and i am getting good thread contact thru out the set up and the bh is on tight. maybe it also has to do with the insert that goldtip is using that is the problem.
and to 5shot the things you do in your your shop is your bussiness but i think if people want to shoot steelheads because of your testing then your contradicting yourself and what you unbiastly said in your report. just my opinion here and i know that and 75 cents can buy you a coke. i have only heard one side of the story on this so i wonder if what was said this is hear say from one to another and i haven't had any problems before when i talked to them so now i am kind of curious
rob k
rob k
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
robk - Did you really read ALL of the posts??? Apparantly not, because it seems you missed this:


"I threaded some of the "new" Steelhead 100's into my XX75 2314's, and XX75 2413's, and they only caught one more thread than they did with the Gold Tips - which was STILL unacceptable - so THAT tell's me it is a ROCKET ISSUE, not a Gold Tip issue..."


I suppose Easton has a problem also, huh??? How do you explain .030" to .040" less threads from the old Steelheads to the new Steelheads??? Was THAT supposed to be an "improvement"??? If so, than the ****** behind it oughta be FIRED!!!!

You're assuming that I'm promoting some other broadhead with this thread, and you couldn't be more wrong... Steelheads have been the only broadhead I've hunted with for the last 5 years, and they took 18 of 18 deer for me - why would I be knocking them if there WASN'T a problem??? After all, Tink and I got into a "knock down drag out" with me DEFENDING Steelheads... Why would I possibly make this up??? What do I have to gain???

What "other side of the story" are you looking for - the manufacturer who's putting out a product that's OBVIOUSLY been changed for the worse, and refuses to acknowledge that a problem exists??? Go ahead and listen to them, and waste your money on the CRAPPY broadheads they're currnetly selling - just don't come back whining to me when YOU have a problem with them...

Really, I wish you would think a little before you make a post... Your rambling on without a clue really doesn't accomplish anything at all... Have you ever actually read one of your own posts??? Most of them appear to be the incoherant ramblings of someone who knows little or nothing...


- georgestrings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
I KNOW THAT I HAVE HAD SOME ISSUES IN THE PAST AND ERIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE TO HELP OUT NO MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE WAS. MAYBE YOU CALLED ROCKY MOUNATIN BY MISTAKE INSTEAD OF ROCKET. FROM MY PAST EXPERIENCES WITH ROCKET HAS BEEN GREAT. THOSE GUYS KNOW THERE BROADHEADS AND ARE BIG GAME HUNTERS AS WELL. I DO NOT KNOW ANOTHER BROADHEAD MAKER THAT HUNTS AND HARVEST ANIMALS LIKE THOSE GUYS AT ROCKET DO. OR MAYBE YOU CALLED THE RIGHT NUMBER AND HE WAS HAVING A BAD DAY AS WE ALL DO ONCE IN A WHILE. I KNOW THAT I SHOOT THE STEELHEAD 100 AND 125 AND HAVE HAD GREAT LUCK WITH THEM. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU CALL AGAIN AND ASK TO SPEAK WITH ERIC AND GET THIS OFF YOUR CHEST I'M SURE YOU CAN WORK SOMETHING OUT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
I KNOW THAT I HAVE HAD SOME ISSUES IN THE PAST AND ERIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE TO HELP OUT NO MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE WAS. MAYBE YOU CALLED ROCKY MOUNATIN BY MISTAKE INSTEAD OF ROCKET. FROM MY PAST EXPERIENCES WITH ROCKET HAS BEEN GREAT. THOSE GUYS KNOW THERE BROADHEADS AND ARE BIG GAME HUNTERS AS WELL. I DO NOT KNOW ANOTHER BROADHEAD MAKER THAT HUNTS AND HARVEST ANIMALS LIKE THOSE GUYS AT ROCKET DO. OR MAYBE YOU CALLED THE RIGHT NUMBER AND HE WAS HAVING A BAD DAY AS WE ALL DO ONCE IN A WHILE. I KNOW THAT I SHOOT THE STEELHEAD 100 AND 125 AND HAVE HAD GREAT LUCK WITH THEM. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU CALL AGAIN AND ASK TO SPEAK WITH ERIC AND GET THIS OFF YOUR CHEST I'M SURE YOU CAN WORK SOMETHING OUT
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top