[loadtoad]

tacomadm18,

First off let me start by saying I am not a Pro;

This is my experience only.
I am right handed and right eye dominant, once I was shown to shoot with both eyse open my scores started to really climb and fast.

It did take some getting used to, about a week or two, and every once in a while I will have to close my left to get my right to focus back on the target, then open the left again.

It was explained to me, "with both eyes open, you have better vision in both eyes combined" also, if you are a hunter or 3-D'er you may be able to pick up that twig that is right in front of you or just out of sight of your shooting eye.

A few draw backs I have seen or found. While I was instructing a youth archery leauge, it became clear that not all can do this.
If an archer is right handed but left eye dominant, then you have two options. Change hands or eyes. the hand is easier but the eyes are harder. Or you go with option 3 and simply wear a patch over the dominant eye and use the non-dominant eye. Lots of folks in this situation and a lot of folks shoot very well with an eye patch.

Try what works for you, play with it and see how you like it. My experience, I will continue to shoot with both eyes open.
Again i just want you to know I am no Pro, and I have only been shooting for 17yrs, I am sure some one will blow holes through all my experiences and tell you I am nuts...they may be right, they may not just pay attention to who is posting the info.:wink:

The Toad!

 

[Lien2]

I agree with the above post. You should try it both ways and see what works for YOU. I am not able to shoot with both open when I shoot a scope.

Lien2

 

[springy]

both eyes

hi i guess ive been lucky ive been shooting for 30 years lots of target and 3d i shoot r-h and are left eye dom everybody says its impossible but have been doing it all my life .how do i do it beats me but im living proof it can be done

 

[aussiearcher]

As has been posted above...it's way better to shoot 'both eyes open' if you can. Most important is to understand why??

Plain and simple (if you’re not a 'cross' shooter)...by looking with both yes open, the target is in your primary focus and the pins are in the secondary. By looking at the target, you will be able to achieve the desired followthrough as the released arrow will come into your line of sight.

Conversely, if you’re looking at the pins....all manner of movement is apparent as you move the bow out of the way to have a look where your arrow went.

Its’ pretty much the same as throwing a ball…look where you want it to go, right through till you hit the intended target.

 

[lane preston]

right on randall!

 

[GatorArms]

blind in one can't see out the other

I shot for 3 years, hunting and target, with one eye and shot very well doing it (hunting bows, compound and recurve).

Fast forward; bought a target bow, and I now shoot with Both Eyes Open and can tell my follow-thru is better. The 10's have change to x's, well some of them.

Proof is in the photos... if you look at any of the top shooters pictures you will see that most, if not all, shoot with both eyes open.

Try it, you'll SEE! < (did I just make a funny?)

If you have been shooting with one eye and want to switch, try this it will make the transition easier.
Take large piece of white paper, draw a vertical line (1" wide) and a horizontal line (1" wide). Blue painter's tape works great, 1" wide. These lines should travel past your sight on all four sides at full draw at twenty yards. First try sighting your vertical, you will figure how to focus thru your sight and still have your pin or dot in focus. Do not try to shoot a pin hole at first. Once you get the hang of it, then try hitting the cross. Don't squint, just look thru and relax your focus.
When you make the right shot you will see the arrow as if your eyes were taking a ride with the arrow down to the target. You'll say "WOW!!!" and be hooked forever!

Hope this helps,
Good luck

 

[3B43]

' . . . the target is your primary focus, w/the pin your secondary focus'. WHAT?

Let me explain my background first: NRA High Master highpower shooter, long range (Palma) high master, member of the 2003 US Long Range Shooting Team, etc. In this game, the front site is your PRIMARY FOCUS!

OK, I've been shooting bows for less then 3 years, but am doing semi-OK, finishing 3rd in BHFS @ Redding (3d Nationals), meaning I know which end of the bow to hold. Recently, I've been X'menting w/both eyes OPEN and its kind'a weird, but I'm focusing on the PIN, not the target.

So, can any of the pros out there explain the CORRECT sight picture, because I've been FRONT SIGHT FIRST for a long time.

Thanks.

 

[mrdanner]

cross shooter

I'm a cross shooter and their is a third option to the eye patch and switching of hands and that is to just focus really hard on shooting with both eyes open. I'm no pro but I regularly shoot 300 50+ x's (BHFS) and just commited to shooting with both eyes open and it works for me. After two years of it they don't even cross any more. It only took about a month to where I could do it subconciously but my scores improved drastically.

 

[archerycharlie]

If by chance you wear glasses just put a small piece of scotch tape on the left eye lens and keep both eyes open, as i have doen this for many years now and have got a few other to use it also and that works for us.


Years ago i saw Randy Ulmer at the Worlds IBO shoots in Flatwoods WV and he used a drop down blinder from his hat brim, It worked for him but i didn't like it, so i went with the tape on lens. Lots of differant ways to do it but keep both eyes open will help you. AC

 

[loadtoad]

' . . . the target is your primary focus, w/the pin your secondary focus'. WHAT?

Let me explain my background first: NRA High Master highpower shooter, long range (Palma) high master, member of the 2003 US Long Range Shooting Team, etc. In this game, the front site is your PRIMARY FOCUS!

OK, I've been shooting bows for less then 3 years, but am doing semi-OK, finishing 3rd in BHFS @ Redding (3d Nationals), meaning I know which end of the bow to hold. Recently, I've been X'menting w/both eyes OPEN and its kind'a weird, but I'm focusing on the PIN, not the target.

So, can any of the pros out there explain the CORRECT sight picture, because I've been FRONT SIGHT FIRST for a long time.

Thanks.

3B43,

Many many rifle shooters disagree with the focus being on the target, instead of the front sight. Infact, the military teaches us to shoot just as you have explained, to qualify with the M-16. I constantly get into arguments with our CATM instructor when it is time to shoot the M-16. He promptly tells me that I won't qaulify if I shoot while focusing on the target instead of the front post. I always laugh, I shoot expert every time, I will maybe miss one or two and they are always the same 300Meter target.

I shot in basic training the way they taught me, it is the only year I did not shoot expert marksman. Since then, I have adopted my archery technique, and never missed expert marksman. I shared this info with 4 of my guys on our last qualifier before we headed out for Afghanistan. These guys have never shot expert or even came close. They focused on the target and 3 of 4 them shot expert, and the other one missed it by one.

I used to shoot archery with one eye open, and focus was on the pin. Once I heard about both eyes open and focusing on the target I gave it a shot. And my scores rocketed upward. Now, I consistanlty shoot 300s with an average of high 40 to high 50 X count on NFAA, and shoot high 290s with 15 to 20 X count on a Vegas face. I am not a pro, merely an average shooter. I have shot beside some of those pros, they shoot with both eyes open and its hard to focus on a pin when they are shooting an X-view scope, (only the X).

This doesn't prove anything, it is my opinion and my experience only.
Others will disagree and others will agree. The best advice anyone can give, is try it and see what works best for you.

The Toad!

 

[aussiearcher]

' . . . the target is your primary focus, w/the pin your secondary focus'. WHAT?

Let me explain my background first: NRA High Master highpower shooter, long range (Palma) high master, member of the 2003 US Long Range Shooting Team, etc. In this game, the front site is your PRIMARY FOCUS!

OK, I've been shooting bows for less then 3 years, but am doing semi-OK, finishing 3rd in BHFS @ Redding (3d Nationals), meaning I know which end of the bow to hold. Recently, I've been X'menting w/both eyes OPEN and its kind'a weird, but I'm focusing on the PIN, not the target.

So, can any of the pros out there explain the CORRECT sight picture, because I've been FRONT SIGHT FIRST for a long time.

Thanks.

FOLLOWTHROUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I to have a target rifle shooting background, way back then....BUT!! Archery isn't rifle shooting and as archers we don't have the benifit of a bloody great long hunk of steel to keep our 'projectile' travelling in a straight path....

From the moment we activate the release...till the arrow hits the dot, we must rely on our 'followthrough' to provide the desired path, with the least amount of imput from us.

Therefore, by remaining focused totally on the target, you will be able to achieve just that....

Sorry to those highly skilled 'rifle' people...your 'aiming with the front sight skills' don't help jack when it comes to correct archery technique.

 

[tacomadm18]

O.K,,, another question to this subject,,,,,

it seems that I do shoot better with both eyes open,,,, but here is my issue, when there are a few targets on the bale or the bales are close to each other which most are,,, as I try and aim with both eyes open I start seeing other targets in my view,,, or my target dissapears and I have to close one eye again,,,

I'm shooting with a CR target scope, and a smaller peep,,, not the smallest but small enough,,,,,

I'd like to shoot both eyes open,,, but this problem must be figured out,,,,,

thoughts please

thanks
glen

 

[Dave V]

I have the same problem. I'm trying to shoot with both eyes open and learn to ignore the second image, but I usually resort to closing my left eye briefly and "looking around" through my scope to be sure I'm on the right target. Then I reopen my left eye and go from there.

 

[loadtoad]

tacomadm18,

Here is what I do to ensure I am on the right target and stay on the right one.

Once my hand is seated into my grip, I find my taget, then the X. I raise my bow without taking my eyes off the X, and draw to anchor.
This helps keep me focused on the right target.

If I loose focus in my right eye, as my left trys to take over, a quick blink of the left eye will re-focus the right eye.
Of course if your are left handed then it would be opposite.

Distractions are the biggest cause of loss of target aquisition. I catch myself looking off as someone shoots right beside me, I look to see where they hit....This is very bad...I will let down and start over if this happens. Maintain your focus on your target, and do your best to keep distractions out of your sight/head while on the line.
Not sure how you could practice this, other than getting creative.

This is how I do it, just my opinion, but it works for me.
The Toad!

 

[3B43]

Hmmmmmm . . . how do I respond to some of the answers here?

First of all, FOLLOW THROUGH w/a rifle is just as important as in archery. When you're trying to hit a dinner plate @ 1000 yards, w/an open sighted rifle, while laying on your beely hold the rifle, FOLLOW THROUGH is critical!!! Long piece of steel on the rifle or not.

Secondly, I'm NOT talking about 'qualifing' expert in the military. That type of shooting would probably get you an 'expert' qualification card, not a master or HIGH MASTER card.

OK, why is front sight picture CRITICAL in rifle AND handgun shooting, but NOT in archery? I have a real difficult time thinking about 'target in focus/front sight blurry' . . . it doesn't compute.

How do the Dave Cousin's/Reo Wilde's of the world sight picture look like?

 

[aussiearcher]

3B43...Hmmmmmm

Hmmmmmm . . . how do I respond to some of the answers here? However you like....that's why you live in the good ol' USA

First of all, FOLLOW THROUGH w/a rifle is just as important as in archery.
Absolutely...no arguement from me there...

Secondly, I'm NOT talking about 'qualifing' expert in the military. That type of shooting would probably get you an 'expert' qualification card, not a master or HIGH MASTER card. What type of shooting?

OK, why is front sight picture CRITICAL in rifle AND handgun shooting, but NOT in archery? First thing that needs to be understood, the bow isn't a firearm..

I have a real difficult time thinking about 'target in focus/front sight blurry' . . . it doesn't compute. Some do..some don't, but I'd be so bold as to suggest that if your an accomplished archer, you'd be in the minority.

How do the Dave Cousin's/Reo Wilde's of the world sight picture look like? Target..i'm sure, but hey...don't take my word for it, this topic is ment to help those archers who might be wanting to improve their accurracy......not rifle shooters

Those who have persevered with adopting this method have posted their POSITIVE results...compute or not, I’d encourage everyone where possible to try it....

 

[loadtoad]

Hmmmmmm . . . how do I respond to some of the answers here?

First of all, FOLLOW THROUGH w/a rifle is just as important as in archery. When you're trying to hit a dinner plate @ 1000 yards, w/an open sighted rifle, while laying on your beely hold the rifle, FOLLOW THROUGH is critical!!! Long piece of steel on the rifle or not.

Secondly, I'm NOT talking about 'qualifing' expert in the military. That type of shooting would probably get you an 'expert' qualification card, not a master or HIGH MASTER card.

OK, why is front sight picture CRITICAL in rifle AND handgun shooting, but NOT in archery? I have a real difficult time thinking about 'target in focus/front sight blurry' . . . it doesn't compute.

How do the Dave Cousin's/Reo Wilde's of the world sight picture look like?

3B43,

I am not saying anything is wrong with your style. I am simply sharing my experiences with the AT community.
Yes, I understand shooting 1000M is completely different, that is why you are getting information about folks who shoot on average 50 to 98 yards as there maximum effective range. I can only imagine that our eyes have their limits, hence why it may be the point of long, long distance shooters focusing on their front sight and not the target. With the relative short yardage we shot in archery, our eyes can focus on the target and compute as we look through the front sight and our natural tendancey to line everything up in our heas is done almost second nature.

It's kinda like pointing at some one, you don't have to look at your finger to point at some one...you look at who want to point at and your arm naturally follows your eye. Now of course, the further away something is the larger of error there is, but if an object is close hand eye cordination will point to the object fairly accurately.
Take that same basic principle and put things like a rear apeture, front sight, stabilizers to balance the bow properly...as it all lines up with your eye, it will be pointed where you are looking. Very basic.

Also, add to this equation that an arrow stays on a bow for a far greater time than does a projectile in the barrell of a rifle. If archers are focused on the frontsight, they can/tend to follow their natural arc. the perception of this movement is different for each archer, some it is great, for others it is miniscule, how the archer preceives this movement can effect his/her release. Once an archer is honed in to their movement, they can/sometimes can start to anticipate that movement...this is bad!!!!! YES, I am talking about Target Panic, or what ever you may call it.
So if you buy in to all this, focusing in on your target can help relieve some of this anxiety of following your pin in a wave by shooting of the target.

As for Cousins/GRIV/etc, etc...ask them and they can explain their experiences with it...

These are my experiences and how I understand why I do what I do.
As an old farmer used to say "there is more than one way to milk a cow"

The Toad!

 

[3B43]

Guys, If I came across as a smartass, I'm sorry. What I'm trying to do, is understand the process of the 'sight picture' as pertains to archery. I competed for 10+ years in highpower (high master, service rifle & match rifle), and Palma (2003 member of the USA Long Range Team, or Palma team as it's referred too, State Palma champ in '04), w/more then a few awards won, so I know something about rifle shooting.

I took up archery in Feb of '06. Found it VERY similiar to rifle shooting--rear & front aperature and criticial points of 'shot delivery' are the same: TRIGGER CONTROL, sight picture, and FOLLOW THROUGH. Even though I've won a 3d match or 2, finished 3rd in Redding (BHFS), and shot a 1348 in my first outdoor FITA (my 90m score beat my 70m score . . . stupifing!!!), all that says is that I know which end of the bow to point downrange!

I'm just trying to understand the WHY'S of what are being said on this issue. OK?

 

[3B43]

Let me add . . . 'target panic' is what the term is in archery, 'flinching' is what we call it in firearms. My 'definition' of 'target panic' might be different then the general definition in archery: jumping on the trigger when the sight picture looks 'good', or ANTICIPATING the trigger break. This leads to all sorts of problems in pistol, rifle, or archery. For whatever reason, I've never had an issue w/this part of the 'shot delivery' equation (I've got other issues, mainly 'aperature fade'), so maybe I'm looking at this 'sight picture' problem from a slightly different angle.