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Discussion Starter #1
Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xTpg2P0Veg

I originally posted my video in the "General Archery Discussion" sub-forum but most guys answering there didn't have much experience or care about KTA and Traditional archery in general. I might be wrong. I was hoping, maybe here, more KTA enthusiasts watch my video and commend on it. I'm not going to ask "how is my form"... I know its not perfect. I am shooting both SKB and KTB with GG340 uncut and a hornring. In the end of the video one of my arrows hits the camera (which for me is the highlight of that video). I only shoot once a week, at best, but my hobby of archery extends to the making of the video as well. I spend more than a 5 hour each time I go out, shot, film and then edit and upload. I have recorded many moments of my efforts, so far, to change my style from instinctive mediterranean short draw, to the Korean (thumb, long draw) archery. I have to teach myself because I don't know of anyone in my area even owning a korean bow, let alone practice KTA. Good thing is that I have met a lot of people into KTA in other forums and in facebook. Thanks for reading.
 

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What is obvious from the video is that you are way over bowed. You are having a lot of difficulty with the weight. Basically, the bow is pushing you around instead of you commanding the bow. This is going to hinder any progress you expect to make. The shot should be smooth and look easy in the video. I am not sure how much help can be provided until you get a weight that you can handle.
 

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I watch a lot of Korean Traditional archery and what your doing doesn't really come close to KTA form.

You also hit the camera because you lost what little control you had of the bow.

Personally, if I was serious I'd drop 30lb and watch some of the many KTA videos online.

Sorry if that wasn't what you were looking for but it is what it is.

John.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am not sure how much help can be provided until you get a weight that you can handle.
For me, right now, those two #60, are the last two bows on earth. I'll work with them and I hope I make a liar out of you (matter of speech). Thanks for the advice though. I appreciate it.
 

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Isn't hitting the camera a little embarrassing :confused:

Bow too much for you and lost control and hit camera. Seems like you are shaking terribly, and you can't keep steady at all
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If my soul purpose in target shooting was the bullseye, then I wouldn't go for a 60pound draw horsebow, I wouldn't even shot a compound. I wound shoot a .22lr handgun. And why would it be embarrassing? Do you see me acting like a know-it-all, advising people on things I have no clue about? So what should I be embarrassed for?
 

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I have a very long draw length and have thought that if I get a Korean bow like you are shooting, that I may have to shoot it with a conventional shooting form. You may want to go back to that since that will cut some weight off your bow. As your form improves, you will get more power into your draw and may be able to transition to the Korean style. You really need to do something to address being overbowed, This is not even a judgement call. I can shoot a bow that is way to heavy for me without moving around and shaking like you are doing in the video.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have a very long draw length.
Unfortunately the only way for me right now to shoot or even try out a lighter bow, is to make one. I was looking to get a 50lbs Korean but I was cought up in an other project so the money are going there for now. I'll see about it in the future. Don't you find it very pleasant when you shoot heavy bows?
 

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Nick - to echo others - the bow seems too much for you at this point. It's better to start with a lower poundage bow to develop good shooting form. There are MANY traditional shooters on here who will state that they started with too much draw weight, developed bad form because of it, and it has taken years to correct. For your own sake, learn from the mistakes of others. I personally started with a 35# bow, and I still find myself shaking after a number of shots - it's then time to take a break to avoid getting frustrated and practicing bad form.
 

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Interesting video...

We react differently to being overbowed. I have a couple of bows around here that draw into the low 80's, both bought as collectors items, that I can only bring to full draw about three times in any given session before I have to put them down. I don't actually use them, and don't expect to ever be strong enough to do so. I'm even more overbowed with those than you are with yours and I do not remember the scary looking shaky effect. That concerns me. I may have to drag one of the heavies out again and see if that happens to me. It's been a while. Maybe I just didn't notice over the sensation that my eyes were going to pop out of my head :)

I do use a couple of Asiatics that draw into the low '60's. Lots of fun, but I did work up to them over a couple of years.

I respect for your ability to draw those things with the thumb. I can shoot my 52# Hun (55#@30") all day, western style. Very comfortable, very accurate, lots of fun. But... When I experimented with the thumb draw last year I was quite surprised at how difficult that seemed. No way to draw the Hun that way. Not even a chance, not even once. Even my 40# Magyar is painful to release by thumb. Not enough strength there. For just an instant, it feels like the thing is going out of joint. Quite disconcerting. If I decide to try again with a thumb release, I plan to pick up something in the 30# range, quite possibly an SKB 30# since they are so reasonable, and I don't have one, but I fully expect that to be a challenge.

I do shoot heavier than a lot of folks around here find sensible - though I stop well before I see anything like the shaky effect. The first miss, shooting at a 20" wide block at 30 yards, ends my session in any case.

If you're going to shoot heavy, you should probably consider a few things.

Stretch out before shooting. I use a set base on these -

http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/bowdoc/shoulder/

This simple act adds about 10# to what you can easily draw, and as a bonus it helps protect you from injury. If you experience pain in the shoulder or thumb, do not ignore it, address it. Surgery is not uncommon for folks who've injured themselves this way.

If you can't shoot pretty much every day, pick up a "bow trainer" and use it daily.

http://www.amazon.com/Bow-Trainer-Strength-Training-Archers/dp/B00B7PFG38/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452542113&sr=8-1&keywords=bow+trainer

Daily, or every other day - really helps.

Finally, scrounge up the bux to pick up a 30# SKB. It's really not that expensive, particularly compared to some of the things it seems you're risking right now.

Good luck.
 

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Nick;
You seem to be slightly offended by others' recommendations that you practice form and develop muscle memory and strength by using a lower poundage bow...don't be. This is a great, helpful crowd here and all I hear in these posts are folks trying to pass on the wisdom that only experience can buy you. I have been over-bowed myself; most of us were at first because we didn't have the wisdom imparted by experienced shooters or coaches to set us on the right path. I spent the better part of a summer season out with shoulder and tendon issues because I thought I could power through an over-bow situation but didn't realize that the damage is cumulative and in extreme cases can be permanent. I concur with the others; find a light, inexpensive bow (35# or less) to work on form and build muscle strength and memory before attempting to shoot something as extreme as what you are now. You will be miles ahead in the end. This is in no way, shape or form negative criticism towards you or your shooting style. Under the circumstances, I think you did well. It's just too much, too soon.
 

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I have a video I posted to Youtube so friends could see it, where I had sat my phone on one side of a target stand at 70m and then shot towards it. I then shank a shot left that lands within an inch of the phone that far away. You can't see how close but more of the arrow shows than the others. So I know the sense of panic.

You showed the video and while you kind of said you knew your form wasn't perfect, that's what archers are going to notice. The two sets of things I notice about popular depictions of archery are how the form looks and what the equipment seems to be. I see a mag cover of Hunger Games and it's like, oooh, cool, red arrows. Only after that am I paying attention to Ms. Lawrence.

And people are only trying to help, you notice something, hard not to mention. It's not snobbery, it's intended to help. I know what I look like and accomplish overbowed and it ain't pretty. Lady at the range the other day had a high powered recurve and I was a shaking shanking mess with it. [And while she was similarly accurate with both my bow and hers, the difference is I get even better with mine, which is 20# less.....the spirit of their thoughts, basically.]

But if you just wanna talk Korean bows, press on and just maybe say, I'm not looking for form advice or equipment suggestions. I meet people like that occasionally. They don't care if you see something that could help, this is their fun and trying to adjust it to be better is stress. I try and honor that and people probably would generally if you said so. And then I'd ask some questions about K-bows or something, maybe push this in a direction you want it to go that's helpful for you. But I'm sure part of it is when someone posts a video the coaches and would-be coaches on here dissect it. I don't even coach and I sit there and critique form to myself. I sit there the other day and watch some of last year's Vegas BB and I'm like hmmm for someone excellent in scores blah blah's form is not very orthodox, etc. It's kind of what we do.
 

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Nick,

Just another addition to the discussion. I noticed that on the shot that hit the camera, at the time of release, the arrow was not pointed at the camera at all. In fact, the viewer can see very much of the side of the arrow. That tells me the arrow is not shooting straight. I don't know anything about that style of archery, but I would think the arrow should go where you point it unless it's meant to fall away as you shoot. At any rate - looks like you're having FUN which is most important. However, you may be in for some arrow tuning down the line if you want to increase accuracy!

SJT
 

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Discussion Starter #16
And people are only trying to help, you notice something, hard not to mention.
I want to thank EVERYONE here for posting on my thread. I would like to thank the people that criticize because maybe I could get some help out of it. Most thankful I am to the people who know how to address (and spend the time to) offer their advice in a way that others will open up to receive it. I can take hard advice, I just can't know who's who.

I can not afford to spend on an other bow right now (not to mention the new arrows I'll be needing). I was thinking of getting one (korean, Nomad, Hwarang, SMG) at 50 pounds somewhere in the future, unless the 60pounds grow on me and stay there. I get the same advice (online) on dropping weight about a year now. You scare me a little there with the injuries subject. Are injuries in archery more common than at work, lifting water bottle crates etc etc.? Here I hold that bow for 10 seconds full drawn https://youtu.be/2wCNALimEPE from this angle the shake is not noticeable.
 

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I would suggest using a less valuable camera for this adventure. rc



.
 

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Unfortunately the only way for me right now to shoot or even try out a lighter bow, is to make one. I was looking to get a 50lbs Korean but I was cought up in an other project so the money are going there for now. I'll see about it in the future. Don't you find it very pleasant when you shoot heavy bows?
Shooting heavy bows can be fun, but they can also slow progress. I speak entirely from experience here, as I spent several using shooting bows in the 70-85# range exclusively, but became a much, much more accurate and successful archer by dropping down to bows in the 40-50# range. However, my goals were hunting and 3D, where accuracy is paramount. Yours might be different!

As for making your own bow, well, that's not a big deal! Here's a short video on making a PVC horsebow. PVC is cheap, hard to break, and easy to make into a bow with minimal tools. It also adds another aspect of enjoyment to archery, and again I'm just speaking from experience!

https://youtu.be/ahPK7coHVXQ
 

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You're braver than I am, to post a video. Just saying :)

When my son and I were trying to work our way up, weight wise, while also trying to improve our ability to hit our aim points - we each picked up a set of 40# Flagella Dei Scythian bows. Then we started an alternating routine of 40#, 60#, 40#, 60#... light one day, heavy the next. A lighter bow than you might otherwise expect can be handy for all kinds of things. I generally shoot in the 60#+ range most days. But it's very nice to have bows as low as 30#, either when working on specific elements of form, or when a friend wants to shoot.

If you're not wedded to Korean stuff, Flagella Dei (http://traditionalbowshop.com/) makes nice hardware too. The most efficient bow (weight vs. speed) I own is a Flagella Dei Hun - 55# @ 30", 190fps with 437 grain arrows (400 spine 31.5" carbons, 145 grain tip). It beats modern Martin and Bear recurves of similar weights - though the Martins come close. The lovely black poplar they can use for laminations also makes it one of my prettier bows.
 
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