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Discussion Starter #1
So as I was surfing through some areas looking at different information I came across a podcast that made me go hmmmmmmm? In it there were a group of industry people discussing speed of crossbows. In it they made references that sounded much like the traditional vertical shooters when vertical compounds came to the scene many moons ago. One of these guys a bow company made a reference that if you want to shoot game at 40-60 yds you may as well be using a gun. Why in the world a crossbow shooter, hunter, maker, ever want to make that reference,,,,,all they are doing is feeding the antis. Maybe its becasue they cannot produce a bow shooting much beyond 300fps they wish to belittle those who seek technology to hunt with a weapon that is more efficient...but to belittle us is way beyond me!!
Vertical shooters kill certain animals with weapons at distances out to 80 yds....why would you place amore efficient weapon at a 30 yd maximum range....I just dont get it. If you are looking at the fight of inclusion .....change will come in numbers not seperation If you appeal to the new generation of speed....it may appeal to the younger groups and increase your numbers....but to reference us to gun hunters is appauling and will never move us forward! It also shows the elitist bias that these groups are at their roots. I know we have had this discussion about speed and shooting distances many many times before I was just appauld when I read such shallow references from guys who are supposed to be in our ranks and advancing our sport. Obviously because it is not what they wish to shoot or are able to manufacture...it isnt right for the rest of us to use.....havent we heard this elitist view all too many times before? Sorry I was shocked to hear this form guys in our industry makes one scratch their heads....
 

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I haven't heard the pod cast or whatever it is. But I just can't understand why an archery manufacturer would want to create enemies when there are probably a number of people that shoot both vertical and crossbows at the same time.
If I heard this info your talking about I might get pissed off and never buy anything from them. I still do shoot verticals.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
there wasnt refernce to verticals...i made that reference saying the traditional guys had said that about vertical compounds back in the day....they were refernce speed crossbow shooters should just use a gun if they want to take deer past 30.......they said their is no advantage to use a 400fps crossbow over their 300+ ...because they have a 20-30 pin and the deer is still just as dead. further they said you only get a 3 yd advantage over their bow. I woould say the advantage would be you could set a 30-35 pin.....and be able to shoot 40 without issue dur to very little drop. It would eliminate any movement if they are shorter yardage. With a 300+ bow you have considerable drop between 20-30 so you would have to be on your game with exact yardages not so much with a faster bow....I just dont get the logic of shallow minded thinkers I guess.
 

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Oh I see capital

Yes...... the very word gun used whether they like speed or not is a bad thing to do.
If the vertical or anti crossbow community brings it up that's one thing but crossbowers don't need to bring it up. Weather they agree or not crossbows should be in a positive light......never bringing up what they feel are negatives. After all the other side will bring up as much as they can think of.....they don't need help especially when the public might be watching.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
exactly....sorry just struck a cord....lol
 

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Yup......as slow as I am.....I would think of that......these guys must be slower than me.....now that's slow bro!!!!!! Lol
 

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I believe it's because some bow mfgs want to appease two constituencies yet favor the vert crowd where most of their (current) business exists. Look at Mathews, they put out a nice crossbow ...but under the Mission name.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
cossack....It wasnt really said in that tone....it was more of a pick at the speed guys.....that they should just use a gun if they want to kill a deer beyong their 30 restriction....really quite strange....I am not an advocate of shooting past your own personal distance...however it is more then feasible. They were just merely ranting that the guys who look for speed need not share the sport with guys who shoot slower bows and limit their distance....very shallow thinking.
 

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"can" you shoot to 80 yrds and "should" you shoot to 80yrds is more the question. The point of a flat trajectory to 30yrds eliminating possible misses or spine/belly hits is the only real plus to a fast bow. That people think they can go out to "gun range" and still make an ethical kill is the issue. It depends on why you are an "archer". Are you an "archer" because of the additional challenge it presents as a primary reason(as in that doe you shot with your bow means more to you than that buck with your gun) or are you simply a killer looking to put as much meat on the ground as possible irrelevent of what "archery" may actually bring to the hunt beyond a dead animal. I try not to be too judgemental here, but Im not a fan of the "80yrd" shots with ANY form of archery equipment.
Wyvern
 

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Bravado...ignorance...whatever the reason. Ok to have those discussions privately. Putting them out there publicly is harmful. Some people must be the "expert" at what ever price it brings
 

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Woa Nelly bro!!!!!
Where did 80 yards come from?
I'm lost now.
 

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Lol
Got some "what does archery mean to you"vibes floaten in the mix also. Looks like its on bro.
 

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"can" you shoot to 80 yrds and "should" you shoot to 80yrds is more the question. The point of a flat trajectory to 30yrds eliminating possible misses or spine/belly hits is the only real plus to a fast bow. That people think they can go out to "gun range" and still make an ethical kill is the issue. It depends on why you are an "archer". Are you an "archer" because of the additional challenge it presents as a primary reason(as in that doe you shot with your bow means more to you than that buck with your gun) or are you simply a killer looking to put as much meat on the ground as possible irrelevent of what "archery" may actually bring to the hunt beyond a dead animal. I try not to be too judgemental here, but Im not a fan of the "80yrd" shots with ANY form of archery equipment.
Wyvern
Amen! X-2
 

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I also herd that pod cast and several things he said made me scratch my head. He also designed bows for horton back in the 80's and things he said leads me to beleave he wont be building any thing new in the up coming year or two when building bows you need to hear what the buyer wants and design some of that in as well.
 

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So what is the cutoff speed?
Guys with verticals I work with are shooting double the distance I shoot.
The speed of the bow doesn't seem to be a factor.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
the 80 was my fault ....and I was refering to vertical elk/caribou hunting I should have been specific sorry....however....dave the gun reference is more the meaning of the story and my issue.....I agree with you on thes speed greatest feat is extending to the 30-35 marker...i know you said 30...I personally am a hunter and like to use most efficient weapon to do so. However a 40-50...with most modern forms of archery equiptment in the right conditions and with the user very experienced...is more then feasible in my opinion....either way...they shouldnt label the guys who choose to extend their range to those levels as gun hunters dave. It isnt good for us as archers to be refered to as gun hunters ...ever.....maybe they could question the distances....but never reference to a gun.
 

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"....dave the gun reference is more the meaning of the story and my issue" I 100% agree with you on that one :) "However a 40-50...with most modern forms of archery equiptment in the right conditions and with the user very experienced...is more then feasible in my opinion" I agree there too :) " they shouldnt label the guys who choose to extend their range to those levels as gun hunters dave." and no argument there either...I have as much issue with the whole "gun/crossbow" confusion as I do with the TV celebrities so desperate for anything dead on the ground to film taking unethical shots and teaching bad hunters to be worse hunters.

Wyvern
 

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Discussion Starter #19
omg I just had the visual of that guy shooting his barnett 80+ yds and having it bounce of the ground hitting the animal or something....yeah I hear ya on that...
 

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You should have seen the stink I rose at the Barnett booth when they had that video playing on a big screen. I cleared the booth...everyone in the booth walked to the otherside to get away from me and Craig Morgan the idiot was IN the booth at the time and would not even look at me...
Wyvern
 
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