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Discussion Starter #1
I recently got back into the sport and have been shooting for about 3 months now. I seem to be having an issue with my bow shoulder getting fatigued before anything else, along with added soreness in it. It seems that at full draw and anchor it has the most pressure on it like my shoulder is taking all of the holding weight. I have tried multiple draw lengths thinking I might of had a draw length that was too long and every thing I could think of I just can not get rid of the extra pressure in my shoulder. Any one have any ideas on what could be my problem I am out of ideas here. I am fine for the first few seconds of my shot routine then I can feel the fatigue in my shoulder and my pin starts to float all over the dot and I can no longer hold steady. An added note my draw shoulder has no soreness what so ever. I am not pushing forward with my bow arm just drawing straight back with my draw shoulder.
 

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I recently got back into the sport and have been shooting for about 3 months now. I seem to be having an issue with my bow shoulder getting fatigued before anything else, along with added soreness in it. It seems that at full draw and anchor it has the most pressure on it like my shoulder is taking all of the holding weight. I have tried multiple draw lengths thinking I might of had a draw length that was too long and every thing I could think of I just can not get rid of the extra pressure in my shoulder. Any one have any ideas on what could be my problem I am out of ideas here. I am fine for the first few seconds of my shot routine then I can feel the fatigue in my shoulder and my pin starts to float all over the dot and I can no longer hold steady.
Need a HEAD to TOE photo,
of you at full draw,
with the arrow DEAD LEVEL.

Helps to aim at a spot that is at your EXACT shoulder height.
When you aim at a spot at YOUR shoulder height,
then the arrow will be very close to DEAD LEVEL.

I'm pretty sure I know what the pic will look like,
but just want to confirm.
 

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What nuts&bolts said.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You can see the high draw shoulder in the pic. I cant get rid of it. Tried shooting a shorter draw just got worse, tired shooting a bend in the arm but I cant shoot a bent arm to save my life. My elbow is just shy of being locked. Heres a pic tell me what you think.

 

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Discussion Starter #7
Probably a bit short on DL. I've been there. And it can just hurt like Hell, too.
Problem is I was having the occasional creep forward once in a while when I was shooting a 29 inch draw on the bow. 28.5 feels the best and holds the best, my shoulder is just getting worn out too fast.
 

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I'd like to see one from directly behind you...the view from slight above you, right behind the bow/arrow and looking at the target. This, in addition to the head to toe pic will tell even more! Often times what is "up front" (the bowarm) isn't the rest of the story....

field14 (Tom D.)
 

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Set the poundage down a little, it would not take much, mine has been sore as hell since april, i set mine down and it helped me.
 

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Set the poundage down a little, it would not take much, mine has been sore as hell since april, i set mine down and it helped me.
Remember, that dropping the poundage will INCREASE the draw length, and how much will depend upon how many turns of the limb bolts you do. "Rule of Thumb" is about 1/8" per full turn of the limb bolts...and 1/8" of DL is a TON!

I'm suspecting a few things just based upon the head to toe pic (just like Nuts & Bolts is suspecting things)...but want to see that photo from directly behind and above the shooter....I need to see that arrow to string to drawing elbow positioning looking toward the target. So be sure the photog is far enough behind you and above you so we can see that alignment.

field14 (Tom D.)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok I lengthend the draw just to try it one more time I believe I can see where my bow shoulder has dropped. I also have a pic from behind my head with the 1/2" longer draw. I can go back to the 28.5 if needed for more pics takes just a sec. Will post pics in a sec.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Remember, that dropping the poundage will INCREASE the draw length, and how much will depend upon how many turns of the limb bolts you do. "Rule of Thumb" is about 1/8" per full turn of the limb bolts...and 1/8" of DL is a TON!

I'm suspecting a few things just based upon the head to toe pic (just like Nuts & Bolts is suspecting things)...but want to see that photo from directly behind and above the shooter....I need to see that arrow to string to drawing elbow positioning looking toward the target. So be sure the photog is far enough behind you and above you so we can see that alignment.

field14 (Tom D.)
I will do what I can for a pic I am 6'1" with a short girl friend taking pics haha.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
These are at 29" draw I can see here that my shoulders are not parallel to my arrow I need to fix this. I have tried the power triangle but it wasnt for me. I like a line from shoulder to shoulder parallel to my arrow.


 

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Discussion Starter #14
Im almost thinking that this draw is better I never thought that Im not used to the let off on these cams, I think I can attribute the creep to the high let off not necessarily the draw here. Any more input?
 

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These are at 29" draw I can see here that my shoulders are not parallel to my arrow I need to fix this. I have tried the power triangle but it wasnt for me. I like a line from shoulder to shoulder parallel to my arrow.


Parallel shoulders isn't what I am looking for. Most shooters don't have the SHOULDERS parallel to the target anyways. I need to take some time and check some things....concerning the pics from behind you.

field14 (Tom D.)
 

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inthexring22picwithlines1.jpg inthexring22picwithlines2.jpg Here's something:

The BLUE Line is the continuation of the ARROW on thru to behind your forearm/elbow. The RED line is the continuation of the BOWSTRING on thru to behind your forearm elbow. I'm not worried about your shoulders. Even in spite of the positioning of the camera for the photo angle...can you see "Some" of the problem?

I thought I was seeing tightness in your bowarm/shoulder combo, as well as your release hand. If you look at those two lines I added to the photos....you will see that in one, those lines intersect at your release hand, and in the other, they parallel each other right on thru the tip of your elbow.
This signals TORQUE and improper bow hand positioning...which signals a TIGHT and unrelaxed bowarm, bow-hand, and bow shoulder. Those TIGHT muscles are going to fatigue quickly! In addition, those were obviously two different drawing cycles...and they DIFFER greatly; meaning your GRIP is changing. I think perhaps you are in too deep with your bow-hand into the bow, and are, as a result torquing the bow around and as you torque the bow fighting for alignment, everything tenses up. In addition, on the side view photos, I clearly see that your chin is down and the neck is pulled forward toward the target; once again, this is TENSENESS in the entire system and those neck muscles are tightening up the back side AND the front side and affecting both shoulders...and their ability to relax and let the RHOMBOIDS on the drawing side "do their thing"....Head should be LEVEL and you should stand up staight and tall...and draw the string to you...don't chase the string/peep. Try to NOT move your head at all once you are set....especially tilting it into the string.

In addition, the high letoff forces some tightness just to get "over the hump" and when you drop down into "nothingness" of holding weight, you have NOT relaxed your way into the shot...so you are pretty much holding full draw with ARM MUSCLE and NOT "back" or "rhomboids"...IF your bowarm and release arm are NOT relaxed, you can't engage the rhomboids...and your arm muscles are going to tire quickly.

I think the DL is probably OK. You said these pics are at 29"...Can you get the "view from behind" photos done up with the 28.5" DL?

Hope this helps, but I'm thinking it is a relaxation problem and not necessarily a DL problem. MAYBE a peak weight problem with regard to too heavy....but....Can't see a video of you drawing the bow, so that is only a guess.
field14 (Tom D)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I understand what you are saying. That pic was same hold at different angles not a second draw though. I hear you about the grip but I actually think you are seeing a cant here not bow torque I wasnt so worried about the level in the sight guess I should have been. My grip is the most consistent thing I have going on here in my set up. I can get you a frontal pic of the grip if you would like to analyze it?
 

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I understand what you are saying. That pic was same hold at different angles not a second draw though. I hear you about the grip but I actually think you are seeing a cant here not bow torque I wasnt so worried about the level in the sight guess I should have been. My grip is the most consistent thing I have going on here in my set up. I can get you a frontal pic of the grip if you would like to analyze it?
There is something going on during your "hold" then...cuz if that is the same draw cycle from different angles...then the photo had to have taken some time between photo "shots" to get the angle...while you were holding the bow, ha. That tilting of your chin downwards is problematical, and it "could" be causing a lot of the problem. You'd need a heckuva lot of "cant" to skew the angle between the arrow and string out of whack. When you bend your head into the string...since there is hardly any pressure on the bowstring, it is super easy, with higher letoffs these days to literally bend the bowstring around your face...and this causes all sorts of grief, haha.
Definitely would like to see the bowhand pics from BOTH sides of the bow, and one up close but still being able to see at least the grip part of the riser from both sides too.
The up in front of you grip pic does show some tenseness in your bowhand.....you ARE gripping the bow with your thumb and forefinger...the THUMB will provide torque to the system and it is a sure sign of tightness in the bowhand. I can also sense from the photo there is tightness on the back of the bowhand too, because I see that your other 3 fingers are tense and don't appear to be relaxed. Can you get pics from facing you from the front...but just the bowhand and riser (not super close) and then on the other side so I can see what the back of your bowhand looks like? With a HOYT bow, due to the way the grip is cut out, the gripping with the thumb/forefinger makes it very easy to provide tenseness and torque into the system. BUT...once you get a RELAXED consistent grip with a HOYT bow...zoo-wee, you will have it. TIGHT bow-hand = tight bow forearm = tight upper bowarm = tight shoulders = fatigue quickly = soreness muy pronto, and also little to no ability to use bone on bone to support the system, but rather use MUSCLE POWER to hold the system together = little PROPER back tension.
field14 (Tom D.)
field14 (Tom D.)
 
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