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Discussion Starter #1
I shoot a Pearson Stealth set at 65lbs. draw with a 29" draw length (I am 6'3"). I was shooting by trying to touch the string to my nose, but felt I was limiting proper form. Now, after some thorough searching I have tried to force myself to bring everything in a little tighter. I closed the space between the string and my bow arm shoulder by turning my body clockwise like Nuts & Bolts suggested in his postings on form. Now my string touches my mouth. This position feels like it shortened my draw length. I guess I am wondering what the proper bow arm position should be as far as position of elbow (where should it be pointing), how much bend should it have, etc. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, especially since my shoulder gets really sore after shooting maybe 15 arrows. It's definitely a sore feeling (no pain). It's as if I'm lifing weights. This bow is a little on the heavy side. I just wonder if this sore shoulder is an indicator of improper form. Last night I drew back in front of the mirror to check my form. I noticed that I tend to lean back at the waist.
Also, I think my draw stop is a little out of whack. If I pull all the way into the stop it pulls a little through the 'wall', maybe about 1/8" - 1/4" past. Is this a bad thing? What affect would this have as long as I'm consistent and draw to the stop each time?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
By the way, I can't find the data cable for the digital camera so postings of pics at this time are not possible. I'm working on getting a cable.
 

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what is your wingspan?? do you use a loop? how long is it?

for a 6ft 3 person normal porportions 29 sounds a bit short to me.

I am 6 ft even and shoot 29 with about a 1/2 D loop.

if you go with nuts and bolts theory then you should have to legnthen draw length as you get more and more into the position he wants you to be in.

on some of my bows I can't alter draw length but I can add D loop to accomadate the longer anchor positions.

I have some wheel bows and even they don't have a 1/4 inch sponge past a point. so it doesn't sound like your cam or cams are in time as that is a lot of sponge on the back end of the wall. which would change from shot to shot depending on how far back you pulled it that time. Pin point accuracy would suffer some, unless you have creep tuned the bow..

oh when I get my shoulders up to high my shoulders get tired quick.

just some thoughts, good luck..
 

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The soreness you describe is probably due to using muscles that you didn't use before. Be very careful with this and don't try to shoot through the pain. When it starts hurting, quit shooting. You will probably build up the strength quickly.

The shoulder has muscles called the rotator cuff. These are small musles and part of what they do is to stabilize the shoulder joint. All archers should be very careful not to seriously damage these muscles. They can get bad enough that you can't shoot at all. A bowhunting friend had to switch to a crossbow after 5 shoulder operations.

Take is slow,
Allen
 

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Discussion Starter #5
My d loop is about 1" long. To me, it's a lot longer than what I've seen on other bows. I've read that proper draw length results in the nock being under the shooter's eye. My question is: How is a typical shooter's elbow positioned? Should it feel as though my arm is completely extended? I think I will lengthen my release head by about 1/4 - 1/2". My release length may be causing me to compromise my form, by opening up so that I can maintain my preferred anchor (my index knuckle tucked under my right ear lobe). I currently have it set with the trigger between the first and second knuckle. I'll lengthen to the first knuckle.
 

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deskjockey said:
My d loop is about 1" long. To me, it's a lot longer than what I've seen on other bows. I've read that proper draw length results in the nock being under the shooter's eye. My question is: How is a typical shooter's elbow positioned? Should it feel as though my arm is completely extended? I think I will lengthen my release head by about 1/4 - 1/2". My release length may be causing me to compromise my form, by opening up so that I can maintain my preferred anchor (my index knuckle tucked under my right ear lobe). I currently have it set with the trigger between the first and second knuckle. I'll lengthen to the first knuckle.
how much bend is in your bow arm?? I shoot with mine straight, and when I align to nuts and bolts spec my bow arm is not far from the string. on a 29 inch bow I have about a 1/2 inch loop with my other bow that is 28 inches that loop is abot 1.5 inches or so. need the longer loop to get to the same position in the back.

oh my elbow is in line with the arrow. at least bowsmith says it is.

streach it out and shoot , keep score and if you see improvement didle some more until you optimize.
 

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Do not extend your bow arm out to lock your elbow. Doing so can put the inside of your elbow in the path of the string which will wack you. Something I am sure everyone know off who shoots a bow at one time or another.
This also causes your bow arms wrist to not be in the right position which can cause you to torque the bow left (if your a righty)
Your bow arm elbow should be bent slightly.

Your release elbow should basically point straight backward behind you not pointing up or out at all.
As for anchor points, there are several.
Boils down to finding whats comfortable for your style of shooting and your body type/build.
 

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deskjockey said:
I shoot a Pearson Stealth set at 65lbs. draw with a 29" draw length (I am 6'3"). I was shooting by trying to touch the string to my nose, but felt I was limiting proper form. Now, after some thorough searching I have tried to force myself to bring everything in a little tighter. I closed the space between the string and my bow arm shoulder by turning my body clockwise like Nuts & Bolts suggested in his postings on form. Now my string touches my mouth. This position feels like it shortened my draw length. I guess I am wondering what the proper bow arm position should be as far as position of elbow (where should it be pointing), how much bend should it have, etc. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, especially since my shoulder gets really sore after shooting maybe 15 arrows. It's definitely a sore feeling (no pain). It's as if I'm lifing weights. This bow is a little on the heavy side. I just wonder if this sore shoulder is an indicator of improper form. Last night I drew back in front of the mirror to check my form. I noticed that I tend to lean back at the waist.
Also, I think my draw stop is a little out of whack. If I pull all the way into the stop it pulls a little through the 'wall', maybe about 1/8" - 1/4" past. Is this a bad thing? What affect would this have as long as I'm consistent and draw to the stop each time?
Hello deskjockey:

What is your wingspan?

Bow fit to a shooter is made up of three components:

a) Bow AMO draw length
b) d-loop length
c) wrist strap to trigger distance.

you can adjust any of the three to have the bow fit you.

When you rotate your body clockwise (RH shooter),
you are increasing the distance from the grip to your chin,
so yes, you are increasing your body's draw length requirements.

That's a good thing, because most folks have purchased a bow with the DL set too long.

You also mentioned that you noticed that you are leaning backwards.
That's a hint that you were definitely shooting with the DL set too long for you.

How much to bend the elbow?
Is that elbow a straight one, a slightly bent one, a "locked" one...?

Using your index finger on your bow hand, stretch your bow arm out
and point the index finger at the top left corner of the door. That's how much to "bend or not bend" your elbow.

When you line up your feet towards the target (more clockwise than before),
and draw your bow to full draw,
keep both shoulders level....
push off the rear foot and force your body forward (more than before)
push off both feet and stretch your upper body upwards (stand tall)

get your adams apple right over the button of your jeans (standing centered)

when you stand tall, now you should be able to hit your normal anchor point.

when you stand tall, you may or may not need to take some twists out
of your bow string to add maybe 1/4-inch to the bow draw length....

I can't reallly advise you without a picture...
but I suspect that until you teach your body muscles
a new muscle memory...

it will feel strange.

shoulder soreness is different than shoulder pain.

when you are rotated more clockwise,
and your bow arm is more in line with your two shoulders....

you can actually relax the bow arm and the release arm (biceps)
and let the bones in your bow arm and two shoulders take the load...
(that's why you don't want too much "bend" in the bow arm elbow)


if you take 3 blocks of 2x4 lumber...
each piece 6-inches long

stack them end to end to make a 18-inch high stack of 2x4 lumber

because each piece is directly on top of each other,
you can push down on the top piece of 2x4
and the column is stable.

The bones in the bow forearm (between the wrist and elbow) is the first piece of 2x4.

The bone in the bow upper arm (elbow to shoulder) is the 2nd piece of 2x4.

The two shoulders and the left and right collar bones are the 3rd piece of 2x4.

When these three pieces line up as straight as you can,
then it takes very little effort to maintain a steady hold. So, you can actually relax the bow arm muscles between the wrist and elbow,
and you can use very little effort to keep the bow shoulder down,
as long as the riser shelf is at your shoulder height.

You want the bow shoulder to be down.


Now, on the release arm side.
You also want the release side shoulder down.

Once you are at full draw, you are only holding 12 lbs
for a 60 lb bow with a 80% letoff.

Just like mashing the brakes on a car with a panic stop.

You have the pedal down to the floor in order to stop the car.
Once the car is stopped, how many folks are still applying 100 lbs of pressure
on the brake pedal?


You need the arms muscles to pull through the 60 lb peak draw weight.

Once you are at full draw, you need to reduce your holding pressure to 15-lbs or so, just a little over your holding weight.


Once you hit full draw and are at anchor,
you need to shift gears.

You used the arm muscles to get through the peak draw weight to get to full draw and anchor.

NOW change gears to the shoulder muscles.

Relax that right bicep.

Relax the right shoulder muscle.

Squeeze the right arm pit muscles along the right side of the ribs (lats).
Pull down the right elbow tip with your lats on the right side.

Squeeze the right side shoulder blade.
You can swing your right arm and elbow just like a door.

Try to smoothly swing the right arm and elbow (door)
back behind your head 2-inches, while maintaining a downward pressure on the right elbow tip.

YES, doing two things at once, like patting the top of your head (left hand),
and rubbing your stomach in a circle (right hand).



So, if you are exercising the right shoulder blade muscle,
(for the first time), then you will feel soreness,
and then it's time to stop shooting that day,
and try again 2-days later.

One day of shooting training.
One day of rest.
Start shooting again on day 3.
One day of rest on day 4.

You get the idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
From years of weightlifting diligently I have learned how to focus on using certain muscles. My draw arm muscles are fine. It's my bow arm shoulder that gets really tired. It fees like I'm doing military presses. My shoulder tires quickly and it becomes difficult to hold on target. I think it may be because I'm trying to pull all the way into my draw stop...which as of last night (from looking in the mirror) I noticed it is set a little too long past the wall. Perhaps I should just ignore it and draw to the natural wall of the bow, not past it to my stop. I will attempt this, as well as lenghten my release. I gotta get some pics!
 

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to many pounds or learning how draw your bow the right way .

Your drawing to many pounds or practicing to much . It could be you realy havn't learn how to draw your bow the right way . Get with someone who no's what their doing and let them watch you . They will no right quick what it is .
 

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deskjockey said:
From years of weightlifting diligently I have learned how to focus on using certain muscles. My draw arm muscles are fine. It's my bow arm shoulder that gets really tired. It fees like I'm doing military presses. My shoulder tires quickly and it becomes difficult to hold on target. I think it may be because I'm trying to pull all the way into my draw stop...which as of last night (from looking in the mirror) I noticed it is set a little too long past the wall. Perhaps I should just ignore it and draw to the natural wall of the bow, not past it to my stop. I will attempt this, as well as lenghten my release. I gotta get some pics!
Hmmm.

Maybe pulling too hard, like you said.

Is your bow hand much lower than your shoulder?
Maybe a little too much draw weight?

Yup, a picture would help.

Your bow shoulder tiring quickly is a concern.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Update: I adjusted the draw stop to stop in the proper position (right at the wall). I also lengthened my release. It helped some. NOTE: Nuts & Bolts asked the question of how long is my wing span. I just measured it at 74". Does a 29" DL sound a hair too short? Thanks for the help!
 

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deskjockey said:
Update: I adjusted the draw stop to stop in the proper position (right at the wall). I also lengthened my release. It helped some. NOTE: Nuts & Bolts asked the question of how long is my wing span. I just measured it at 74". Does a 29" DL sound a hair too short? Thanks for the help!
It depends on how "open" your shooting position is.

If you have a very open shooting position,
then this could be ok.

An open shooting position
means your shoulders are aiming way left of the target,
when you are at full draw.

If you are primarily a hunter,
and shoot with a heavy jacket on,
then an open shooting position will give you lots
of clearance on your bow arm.



Picture no. 1 on the left is a very open shooting position.
A very open shooting position has the two shoulders forming a line
that points left of the target bale, and results in a shorter
chin to bow grip distance....you fit a shorter bow draw length setting.


If you are a target shooter, this is not the best way to develop a steady hold at full draw.

As you rotate the entire body clockwise (RH shooter),
you increase the distance of the chin to the bow grip,
and then the shooter fits and requires a larger bow DL setting.

So, without an overhead photo, and a head to toe frontal photo
we can't truly answer your question.
 

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keep them coking

love those great tips and pics they help me alot and i mean alot ...o did i say alot
 
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