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Spring Vs Magnetic Plunger

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What works best and why. Beiter is what Ive read is top of the line and what most of the top archers shoot is this personal preference. I looking at the Wifler, W&W, Arc and Gabriel magnetic plungers why are these not use as much?
 

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I love the Beiter except the fact that it wears a groove on my X10s. So I use the shaft from the AAE in the Beiter and am moving to the AAE in general. I have not use the Wifler but would like to try it. The force/displacement curve appears to be quite different, but I have not seen actual measurements. My guess is that it is very consistent.
 

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It depends on the construction. I don't think one is inherently better than the other in real terms.
 

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They both work just fine. I have an Arc Systeme promagn magnetic button that I used for years before being given a used Beiter (I use it because it's my favourite colour). No noticeable difference in group shape/size or anything else. The magnetic one had about half the adjustment resolution since 7 turns took you all the way through the range of all three Beiter springs, though when one click moves a bareshaft only 1mm or so at 18m that resolution isn't needed.
I've never had a visible flat on my ACEs with either button, though I did wear through the nickel? coating on the tip and into the brass of the magnetic one after many years (maybe a hundred microns), and I wore about twice that away from my black Beiter tip after less than two years.

In ~8 years that I used the magnetic one, I think I saw one other person with one out of a thousand. The magnetic one is ever so slightly smoother than a good quality well maintained spring loaded button, though the magnetic piston weighs 4.5g instead of 0.9g for a Beiter or 1.4g for a Shibuya, which reduces its acceleration when the arrow presses against it. If either of those differences was important in and way then magnetic plungers would have either taken over from springs or gone extinct at some point in the last 20 years as each generation of competitors searched for any possible technological advantage.
 

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Agreed with lcaillo, the beiter grooves the $#!t out of the X10's, much less so on the Nano Pro Extreme's. I have switched to a Wifler, and the wear appears to have essentially stopped. I checked on new X10's... a very pricy and dicey experiment for sure lol.

I am slowly working on another wifler plunger for my barebow.

As far as tension adjustment, I also did not note a major difference in tuning ease or maintenance of adjustment.
 

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Can someone please post a picture of the “groove worn in X10s” by the Beiter plunger. Where? How deep? What are the setup specs? I‘ve been shooting a Beiter button since 1996 and x10 since 1997 and I have never had this. In that time I have shot weak, bang on and stiff (per bare shaft). Mainly 410s but also 450s. I just haven’t seen it… and I’ve had some clearance issues off the plunger in that period.

Seeing is believing.

Stretch
 

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Desert Island Trading Co.
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Can someone please post a picture of the “groove worn in X10s” by the Beiter plunger. Where? How deep? What are the setup specs? I‘ve been shooting a Beiter button since 1996 and x10 since 1997 and I have never had this. In that time I have shot weak, bang on and stiff (per bare shaft). Mainly 410s but also 450s. I just haven’t seen it… and I’ve had some clearance issues off the plunger in that period.

Seeing is believing.

Stretch
agree. never had an issue of wearing a groove with the Beiter. Have worn the ends of an X10 from too many shots into a bale. But never from the plunger.


Chris
 

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Three of you have not noticed X10's being grooved by beiter plungers? I'm a bit surprised, as me and at least a couple of other shooters noticed it on X10 and ACE's (newer). The only way I'm demonstrating this is if someone sends me brand new X10's lol, as I'm not buying a new dozen at essentially 500 bucks and grooving them.
 

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I've been shooting Beiter since the 90's. No grooves. I would be interested to see that too.
CE Nano pro Xtreme 700 spine 28” nock to end of shaft. 110 gr tool steel point. Bow tuned well at approx 36.5lb with centre shot very close to dead centre, just slightly left of string. Bare shafts fly very well all the way out to 70m and have never missed the target at 70m and bare shafts are close enough to fletched group at 70m for my ability/level of shooting.
At 30m, bareshafts are tight in the group with fletched in the gold so nock point and bow lb is spot on for my shooting style
Avg mid/high 500’s at 70m

Beiter button, medium spring on 6.0

Attached photos shows the groove worn on shaft. It’s 8cm long and consistent on all my shafts and the groove starts on shaft about 2.7cm behind button (closest to me) when bow is at full 28” draw.

Slow motion 1000fps footage shows arrow has great clearance around button/rest/riser shelf so no double tap or contact with bow on release.

When I spin the arrow on my fingers, there is a very obvious flat spot felt on the pad of my finger

Had similar groove on ACE 670’s but didnt use them for as long as the CE NPX


Would love to hear possible causes of this groove being created!
 

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CE Nano pro Xtreme 700 spine 28” nock to end of shaft. 110 gr tool steel point. Bow tuned well at approx 36.5lb with centre shot very close to dead centre, just slightly left of string. Bare shafts fly very well all the way out to 70m and have never missed the target at 70m and bare shafts are close enough to fletched group at 70m for my ability/level of shooting.
At 30m, bareshafts are tight in the group with fletched in the gold so nock point and bow lb is spot on for my shooting style
Avg mid/high 500’s at 70m

Beiter button, medium spring on 6.0

Attached photos shows the groove worn on shaft. It’s 8cm long and consistent on all my shafts and the groove starts on shaft about 2.7cm behind button (closest to me) when bow is at full 28” draw.

Slow motion 1000fps footage shows arrow has great clearance around button/rest/riser shelf so no double tap or contact with bow on release.

When I spin the arrow on my fingers, there is a very obvious flat spot felt on the pad of my finger

Had similar groove on ACE 670’s but didnt use them for as long as the CE NPX


Would love to hear possible causes of this groove being created!

Plunger button looks to be in good condition, no apparent rough edges or visble signs of wear on the button face. I have some 600 X10s that have only just started to tune and even after 20 shots on each arrow, there is a very fine 8cm line visible on the shaft (cant be felt with finger yet) consistent with the NPX and ACE

Obviously I’m the constant in this scenario as it’s happening on 3 different types of arrows of 700, 670 and 600 spine but they all fly straight, bare and fletched and group and on Slo mo review, each of the 3 types of arrow clears bow shelf with no arrow contact once its separated from plunger.
I have tried a new plunger tip but it does not resolve the issue.

I’m not too fussed about it as long as arrows go where I aim but if theres a contributing factor to this groove I can change, it just means that I wont need to empty my pockets of my $ on shafts as often.
 

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Attached photos shows the groove worn on shaft. It’s 8cm long and consistent on all my shafts and the groove starts on shaft about 2.7cm behind button (closest to me) when bow is at full 28” draw.

Slow motion 1000fps footage shows arrow has great clearance around button/rest/riser shelf so no double tap or contact with bow on release.

When I spin the arrow on my fingers, there is a very obvious flat spot felt on the pad of my finger

Had similar groove on ACE 670’s but didnt use them for as long as the CE NPX


Would love to hear possible causes of this groove being created!
Thanks for the picture!
About the groove:
Does the groove have that angle on all of them? It looks like it's 1.5mm wide at the widest point - is it flat there or just a different curvature? Any chance you could measure a difference in diameter at that point? It's hard to tell if it's a ten micron flat or several hundred microns from the way it shows up.

About the conditions it formed under:
Which colour tip was on the button, and what arrow rest was it used with? Do you find the tip of your button tends to accumulate a layer of crud that leaves a dark streak if you wipe it off? Does the surface of the button stay shiny when used? What target material do you use most with those shafts and does it leave and residue on the shaft?
 

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Thanks for the picture!
About the groove:
Does the groove have that angle on all of them? It looks like it's 1.5mm wide at the widest point - is it flat there or just a different curvature? Any chance you could measure a difference in diameter at that point? It's hard to tell if it's a ten micron flat or several hundred microns from the way it shows up.

About the conditions it formed under:
Which colour tip was on the button, and what arrow rest was it used with? Do you find the tip of your button tends to accumulate a layer of crud that leaves a dark streak if you wipe it off? Does the surface of the button stay shiny when used? What target material do you use most with those shafts and does it leave and residue on the shaft?
Yes they all start off wider and the groove/flat spot thins out as it gets to the 8cm mark but you can feel the flat spot for the entire 8cm. Even past 8cm is a slightly visible line on the shaft but you cant feel it.
If you're into Formula 1, imagine a tyer flat spotting and then as it rotates it bobbles as it hits the flat spot. That’s what the groove feels like on the shaft as i rotate in my fingers. It’s very obvious

Black beiter tip, shibuya ultima rest. Yes there is a build up of crud, I’m assuming its the carbon from the shaft and it can be scraped off with finger nail. It’s definitely no longer shiny on the face of the tip even after removing the crud

Dont know the brand of target butt but its a rubbery/ memory foam type that does not leave any residue on shaft
 

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I know you’re going to say yes but I have to check. The wear patch is on the side that faces the button when loaded in the bow?

Dumb thoughts that don’t necessarily match the symptoms:

  • What clicker are you using - how stiff is it?
  • How tight is the nock fit?
  • what happens if you rotate the nocks to an undamaged section and swap to a soft teflon tip plunger? (E.g. white shibuya) - does it eat the tip?
  • when you load the bow, does the shaft scrape across anything sharp or rough Eg clicker, clicker extension, riser edge
  • do you have a large block of sandpaper in the bottom of your quiver?
I have a set of 24 year old x10 410s that don’t have any wear mark like this - absolutely no decals left, plain black shafts, shot to death (nearly). Used to be 36 now there are 10.

Stretch
 

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There is an easy solution. Just use the shaft with the aluminum tip from an AAR plunger. I’ll post pictures and make some measurements of the flat spots on my x10s when I get some good lighting so it can be seen clearly but it is similar to what has been described. Thanks to Jake for the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Can someone please post a picture of the “groove worn in X10s” by the Beiter plunger. Where? How deep? What are the setup specs? I‘ve been shooting a Beiter button since 1996 and x10 since 1997 and I have never had this. In that time I have shot weak, bang on and stiff (per bare shaft). Mainly 410s but also 450s. I just haven’t seen it… and I’ve had some clearance issues off the plunger in that period.
agree. never had an issue of wearing a groove with the Beiter. Have worn the ends of an X10 from too many shots into a bale. But never from the plunger.
I've been shooting Beiter since the 90's. No grooves. I would be interested to see that too.
Same questions for those without a groove -
Which colour tip is on the button, and what arrow rest(s) was it used with? Do you find the tip of your button tends to accumulate a layer of crud that leaves a dark streak if you wipe it off? Does the surface of the button stay shiny when used? What target material do you use most with those shafts and does it leave a residue on the shaft?

Another possibly important factor that could determine why some people have a visible groove after a few shots while others have nothing after decades - if you have a worn in tab and measure the width of the region from where the string sits at full draw to where it last loses contact with the string, how far across is it? Mine has a clear line where the lines from the center serving stop and the leather that never touches the string and is covered in suncream residue begins, and it's about 14mm at the widest point.

For those who have been using them since the 90's, if you've also bought shafts in the last decade does there seem to be any difference in how quickly they wear down from the target and how long the decals last?
 

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I use the black tips with the beiter. I have never changed my Beiter tip. I use the Hoyt super rest. My arrows are spined correctly for my poundage and my bow is aligned correctly.

I get no build up of any crud.

Have shot beiter for years and X10s for years. Never had a groove. Not sure why yours is getting a groove. I might suspect that the bow alignment is off and the arrow shoots into the riser. Your groove looks fairly long on the arrow. You shouldnt be on the plunger tip more two inches of arrow. Your groove looks like its 4 inches.

If you watch any slow motion footage you can see the arrow isnt on the plunger tip that long.
For example


Chris
 

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I know you’re going to say yes but I have to check. The wear patch is on the side that faces the button when loaded in the bow?

Dumb thoughts that don’t necessarily match the symptoms:

  • What clicker are you using - how stiff is it?
  • How tight is the nock fit?
  • what happens if you rotate the nocks to an undamaged section and swap to a soft teflon tip plunger? (E.g. white shibuya) - does it eat the tip?
  • when you load the bow, does the shaft scrape across anything sharp or rough Eg clicker, clicker extension, riser edge
  • do you have a large block of sandpaper in the bottom of your quiver?
I have a set of 24 year old x10 410s that don’t have any wear mark like this - absolutely no decals left, plain black shafts, shot to death (nearly). Used to be 36 now there are 10.

Stretch
* 100% groove is formed by plunger and not the arrow rest arm. I actually rotated the NPX 120 degrees knowing the plunger caused the groove so i can eventually get 3 consistent grooves rather than it wearing out one spot only.

  • Clicker is wiawis carbon. Its not firm at all so definately not putting any undue force/pressure on shaft at brace or full draw. There are no marks on clicker side of arrow
  • large groove beiter outnocks on both ACE and NPX and tap of string drops arrow off string. Not too loose or tight
  • I dont have any other brand of tips that fit the beiter. Shibuya tip does not fit. I did us to use shibuya on some older carbon ones and there was no visible signs of grooving
  • Since originally noticing the groove, I have loaded arrow by nocking it with arrow on rest then lift arrows under clicker. I do not slide arrow through clicker and nock it the conventional way.
*no sandpaper. The fact that the groove starts 1 inch behind initial contact with plunger when at full draw tells me it’s the plunger and me causing it.
 

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There is an easy solution. Just use the shaft with the aluminum tip from an AAR plunger. I’ll post pictures and make some measurements of the flat spots on my x10s when I get some good lighting so it can be seen clearly but it is similar to what has been described. Thanks to Jake for the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Where i live means that i would need go buy entire AAE plunger as tips are not available on thier own.

Maybe the $150AUD for full AAE plunger is worth the investment to prolong arrow life!
 

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I use the black tips with the beiter. I have never changed my Beiter tip. I use the Hoyt super rest. My arrows are spined correctly for my poundage and my bow is aligned correctly.

I get no build up of any crud.

Have shot beiter for years and X10s for years. Never had a groove. Not sure why yours is getting a groove. I might suspect that the bow alignment is off and the arrow shoots into the riser. Your groove looks fairly long on the arrow. You shouldnt be on the plunger tip more two inches of arrow. Your groove looks like its 4 inches.

If you watch any slow motion footage you can see the arrow isnt on the plunger tip that long.
For example


Chris
I am beyond ocd with my gear and set up :).

Bow is in alignment using multiple beiter blocks, also by using arrow shafts on flat sides of riser and measuring string to arrow shaft. Limbs are Uukha SX100 and are not twisted.

Regarding my form, I know that my elbow is out away from my body more than it should be but due to pre archery injuries, I cant get ideal alignment so it is what it is So who knows if that is contributing to the extra time of arrow contacting plunger

Slo mo of NPX launch. Absolutely no contact with bow other than plunger on release and the clicker is NOT bouncing back and scraping the shaft as it passes.

Sorry to hijack your thread OP.

 
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