[Bbd16]

My comment is a generalization based on the norm. Draw force curves are not subjective, they are fact. And the reality is that the SW cams are a lot stiffer in the back end of the draw cycle with an obvious “hump” feel before dropping into valley in standard 85% mods compared to a lot of draw cycles from other bows. Also a reality that the norm for the human body is relative weakness during that late stage of the draw cycle vs earlier in the cycle. So yes, one’s perception of how a draw cycle “feels” is subjective but to prefer a SW draw you are either a biological anomaly or have a really odd/bad draw approach, such as drawing super fast and slamming into the stops in which case you may build enough momentum early in the cycle where you are stronger such that you power through the back end of the cycle. There are a lot of competitive draw cycles that fit the human body better. Sorry, just a reality as much as you may wish to not recognize it. Honestly most people are ignorant to these realities and just rationalize that they like a draw cycle because it validates their decision (which was almost certainly driven by other criteria).

The DFC on SW cams don’t show the hump on the back end you speak of. It hits peak weight quickly and holds peak weight for awhile. So stiff from start to finish. No humps though. I have the DFC at 27 inches I can post it if needed. May take a sec to find it as I don’t come to this sight very often anymore but I’ve got the graph.

 

[Bbd16]

Excuse my drawing skills. The graph is in the numbers though. No humps. It’s identical to the original cross centric cam. Holds peak weight just over an inch longer that’s it. The bulk of the draw cycle is right through the middle of the cycle. Not at the back end.

 

[Bbd16]

You are correct. The DFC shows the peak building and holding until much later in the draw cycle than most other bows which is what causes the felt hump before dropping in at 85 because most aren’t used peak holding that late and your body isn’t designed to deal with it. Now, if you only shoot SW can bows you will adapt somewhat to it and it won’t feel as noticeable. Of course you could be doing damage to your body but that’s a combination of too much peak weight (for your capabilities) and an unkind draw cycle.

Right which is why people are saying it’s a deceiving feel depending on which human it is. For me I “feel” a hump in a bow like the impulse. I don’t notice the peak weight holding for an or 2 more in the SW cam although it. Clearly does. Again it’s just Gona be different for different people. We’ll always see different “feels” for guys with good range of motion in the back and shoulders they may not notice it. At 75lbs I can draw it back and inch at a time and barely even touch the stops on the back end. For others they may slam into the wall on the same bow. Some of the faster bowtech bows I feel a bigger “hump” and I think it’s just simply because it builds later. Starts off easier and builds as it goes.

 

[Bbd16]

Seen it a bunch of times - very aware of it. The original cross centric wasn’t a great draw cycle to begin with but they clearly made it worse with the SW. A full inch of 70#s of pressure at that late stage of the cycle relative to your body function and relative strength throughout the cycle is HUGE! Makes a massive difference in feel and impact to your body.

It may be huge to some. Me at 32 years old and an athlete I could shoot it at 100 pounds laying flat on my back. You can’t put your feels and your capabilities on anyone else. It’s clearly subjective as you see here in this thread.

There’s also some tricks to getting the SW cam to FEEL softer in the back end which I covered in the vertix tuning thread if you care to go back and read through it all. Basically using the cables keeping the peak weight at 70.5 or less gives the bow a much softer FEEL vs the same bow with 2 twist in each cable pulling 71.5lbs. Although it’s only 1lb difference the subjective feel would make u believe it’s 4-5 pounds lighter and it just has to do with the shape of the module and how it effects it during the end of the cycle. We’re getting into heavy details at this point I don’t care to dive into it all again but with the right skill set you can make it happen.

You see it often with guys reviewing and saying it’s super stiff or has a big hump etc.. and that’s what happened to most of them they are shooting it at 71.5 - 72.5lbs bc their local shop doesn’t have a clue like most

There’s without a doubt “softer” drawing bows out there that will get close to the speeds of the SW can which is what I believe to be your point and I’d agree mostly.

 

[Bbd16]

My concern with the phase 4 is the rubber between the limbs. I’m interested to see how the rubber reacts in 90 degree heat vs how it reacts in -6 degree cold after sitting for 6 hours. There’s no question the rubber isn’t going o react the same in both conditions. Whether that is going to affect the performance will be up for grabs. There’s a lot of limb tip movement In these bows through the cycle That’s obviously how they change the peak weight with mods is by bending the limbs more or less etc..

the first argument is going to be “I’m sure Mathews has tested this” and I’d like to believe so but when I brought it to their attention they needed another tophat set allowing you to place the cam in the center of the limbs their response was that “I’m to picky and to detailed in my tuning process” and that may be true but it just shows they don’t always pay attention to the finest details and their acceptable range is not the same as mine.

sounds like a good excuse to buy one and test it for myself 🤷‍♂️