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I own both but have only shot my Omnia with smooth mods - have perf but haven’t even messed with them and may never do so.

Need to spend a little more time on this but initial impressions, Omnia in smooth is more linear with a less pronounced transition into valley. Both are frankly great drawing bows relative to performance. I do find the Omnia holds a bit better - feels a bit more stable. It’s probably due to the wider stance. And I like the enhanced adjustability on stops/letoff.
thanks. what let off are you shooting? i have an 70lb enkore that i shoot around 77% at 29”. it doesnt have much of a transition into the valley, but definitely noticeable compared to my 60lb impulse 34 that i shoot around 72% which is extremely smooth all the way to the wall.
 

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Subjective findings for all of us. The P4 2 28.5“ 60# is a super linear, smooth draw for me. I do not find it objectionable at all and I’m historically not a switchweight fan.
for sure. it will always be subjective from person to person. i haven’t shot an omnia and not sure if i even want to look at the new bows this year. just curious of what people think about it.
 

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Lift, Run, Shoot
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thanks. what let off are you shooting? i have an 70lb enkore that i shoot around 77% at 29”. it doesnt have much of a transition into the valley, but definitely noticeable compared to my 60lb impulse 34 that i shoot around 72% which is extremely smooth all the way to the wall.
Right now Omnia is at about 84%. This season I was running Enkore at about 79% for a MT elk hunt. Have jacked around with it a bit since - will likely be selling the bow before long though.
 

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Scratched an early ‘23 model itch this morning. Shot each bow at 60-61lbs except for the Omnia was 63. All set at 28.5”. Loop and rest only.
Tried to keep an open mind, but an earlier post about the Phase 4 today said it best about preconceived notions.

The SS34 was simply too long for my liking. Reminiscent of the Mathews 33. Even is Comfort setting, I did not care for the draw, it just felt weird to me.

The CP30 was very nice all the way around. Well balanced, super smooth draw cycle, quiet at the shot with just a bit of post shot vibration.

Omnia was a big no based upon draw cycle. It was using the Performance mods and I did not like the draw cycle at all. The grip is sweet in typical Elite fashion.

P4 was last. The bow was decked out with all of the latest hardware. It is a sweetheart of a bow. Surprised me just how much I liked it. I have no fresh memories to make a comparison to the V3X29. The bow possesses all of the typical Mathews characteristics talked about here enough. The equipped bow balanced and held very nicely, like crazy good. I’m not a back bar user, but if I buy a P4-29 I will be.

My top picks for today were the CP30 and P4-29. The pics show how close they are in overall length, the Mathews having a slightly longer riser

Waiting now on Prime.

I did not shoot any carbon bows. After 3 seasons with a Mach 1, I’m moving away from them for no reason but simply wanting a change.
View attachment 7742067 View attachment 7742068 View attachment 7742069 View attachment 7742070
Hoyt patrol on suicide watch right now.

Honestly OP go shoot the Omnia with comforts and more holding weight. I felt the same way as you with performance mods at 90% letoff. I haven’t went back to shoot it because I don’t want to buy another bow. That and the fact that I wouldn’t be caught dead missing deer with anything other than a Mathews.
 

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I have a V3x 33. I love it. It is my first Mathews since 2008. Every time I pick it up, I am amazed at the quality and attention to detail. The bow is just freaking nice, period. I like a LOT of brands…I do. The things that made me go with Mathews this year were these: The way the company backs it customers, and you can literally get ANY part, for ANY bow, they have EVER MADE. That was a huge factor for me. They make a very high quality bow. Many people cry about the switch weight mods, I freaking love them. I have played around with different weights, draw lengths, and even let off in this bow. Not to mention when I bought it, the dude must have had his head in the clouds, because I asked for a 28.5, and he gave me a 29.5. So that alone would have been a way bigger issue, and a harder fix had it been dedicated DL specific cam. I like the different advancements on their bows. The SAS is pretty sweet, I liked that. The bow is silly quiet, and vibe free. The bow is decently fast for what it is…no barn burner, but plenty enough for what I need the bow to do. I like the integrated accessories, the biggest for me is the sight mount , it is awesome. The way the center guard cable guide has the cables at the very center is also a bonus, and if you look at the bow at rest, from the side…the cables are not full of torque or lateral pressure. I love the way the bow draws and settles on target. I love the way the bow feels and behaves at the shot. Another thing I almost NEVER hear people talk about, is how slow and smooth I can let down at full draw, and that is HUUUGE in a hunting bow for me. I hunt big Ohio white tails, and white tails can be super wary…so if I can not hold at FD any more, it is nice to be able to let down slowly, and quietly without a quick, jerky let down. I do think they are a bit greedy with the new stab system…$700 for front and back bars, with a mount is just plain stupid, and $20 per extra weight, they could sell those for HALF that, and still make a good profit. They are a bit proud of their stuff, which is okay…but they have crossed the line on the stabs in my opinion. I also love Matt, and what he stands for, and what he has done for the archery community. Yes, they do get a lot of hate, but that’s just how people are…for some reason, fanboys will crap on what ever they don’t choose, because their lack of intelligence doesn’t allow them to accept the fact that there is a LOT of great stuff on the market, and people should be able to like what they want. Mathews is a great company, that makes great products, and backs their customers…that with everything I already mentioned, is why I chose them this year. I see issues and things I don’t like…but that is with EVERY company on the planet. Mathews is a great company, period.
 

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I realize there is a whole lot of Mathews hatred on this site. As my time and experience has grown here on AT, I find there are less like minded individuals not looking to get the last/best laugh or possessing a negative/bitter towards anything and everything they don’t subscribe to.

I don’t shoot a Mathews. I will say they are IMO the most squared away archery company in the business, just a well rounded organization.

I have zero worries about rubber things prematurely wearing etc. Mathews stands behind their stuff, plain and simple.

And most importantly to me and should be to you, the only opinion that truly matters is mine.
Pshhh!
 

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His conclusion (as cited) was based entirely in the draw cycle. Point is that it’s a very different experience with the smooth mods, not that he would have necessarily favored the bow over the others. But when anyone concludes the Mathews is great they are ignoring a suboptimal draw cycle vs other options - including the Omnia with smooth mods.
I don’t see why all the hate for the draw cycle on the Mathews, for you they may suck…I have the x33, at 28.5 and I don’t mind it at all. I can draw it slow and smooth, and the let down is awesome…better than any bow I have shot. I loved the Omnia, and I agree 100% that the draw cycles between performance, and smooth are night and day…but I also see a LOT of people shoot, and I think probably 80% of them are pulling too much weight. But he obviously had no option to shoot the smooth mods….
 

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Mr. O- there was no wait. Walked right in. I was the only one on the “range” when it came time to try them all.
There May have been a half dozen customers when I left. It was perfect timing. And while over a hour, it’s a pleasant drive.

To comment further on the SS34. It was smooth and easy throughout. As I said, for me, it just felt weird. At 28.5 (for consistency as Mathews is typically long) it felt like I was drawing way to much draw length. That and the ATA made it a no go.
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Kind of like the NoCam strange? Everyone raved about the draw cycle on that bow, I never liked it. Wasn't stiff or hard, just strange.
 

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I have a V3x 33. I love it. It is my first Mathews since 2008. Every time I pick it up, I am amazed at the quality and attention to detail. The bow is just freaking nice, period. I like a LOT of brands…I do. The things that made me go with Mathews this year were these: The way the company backs it customers, and you can literally get ANY part, for ANY bow, they have EVER MADE. That was a huge factor for me. They make a very high quality bow. Many people cry about the switch weight mods, I freaking love them. I have played around with different weights, draw lengths, and even let off in this bow. Not to mention when I bought it, the dude must have had his head in the clouds, because I asked for a 28.5, and he gave me a 29.5. So that alone would have been a way bigger issue, and a harder fix had it been dedicated DL specific cam. I like the different advancements on their bows. The SAS is pretty sweet, I liked that. The bow is silly quiet, and vibe free. The bow is decently fast for what it is…no barn burner, but plenty enough for what I need the bow to do. I like the integrated accessories, the biggest for me is the sight mount , it is awesome. The way the center guard cable guide has the cables at the very center is also a bonus, and if you look at the bow at rest, from the side…the cables are not full of torque or lateral pressure. I love the way the bow draws and settles on target. I love the way the bow feels and behaves at the shot. Another thing I almost NEVER hear people talk about, is how slow and smooth I can let down at full draw, and that is HUUUGE in a hunting bow for me. I hunt big Ohio white tails, and white tails can be super wary…so if I can not hold at FD any more, it is nice to be able to let down slowly, and quietly without a quick, jerky let down. I do think they are a bit greedy with the new stab system…$700 for front and back bars, with a mount is just plain stupid, and $20 per extra weight, they could sell those for HALF that, and still make a good profit. They are a bit proud of their stuff, which is okay…but they have crossed the line on the stabs in my opinion. I also love Matt, and what he stands for, and what he has done for the archery community. Yes, they do get a lot of hate, but that’s just how people are…for some reason, fanboys will crap on what ever they don’t choose, because their lack of intelligence doesn’t allow them to accept the fact that there is a LOT of great stuff on the market, and people should be able to like what they want. Mathews is a great company, that makes great products, and backs their customers…that with everything I already mentioned, is why I chose them this year. I see issues and things I don’t like…but that is with EVERY company on the planet. Mathews is a great company, period.
I’m confused, you were railing on Mathews and praising the Omnia last I looked? 🤷‍♂️
 

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Thanks for the time on the write up. That's why I love this sight. The difference of opinion. A ton of what makes a good bow to the INDIVIDUAL is super subjective. People on here get so upset when someone says they don't like their personal bow of choice, and there is no need for it!

It turns out I actually shot the Phase 4 33, SS34, and Carbon one head to head today for comparison too! I am a PSE, (I'm currently shooting a Mach 34 , elite Omnia,and a Darton Spectre e 32) Darton, Elite, and Athens dealer, but we don't carry those other brands because the area is dealer protected so I have to go to another shop to shoot the new bows. Unlike you, I prefer 33"-35" bows. I didn't even ask to shoot the CP30, because it isn't my cup of tea. I only **** the Carbon one to see how bowtech did this year .

Personally, I thought the phase 4 33 was the smoothest of all felt great, and held excellent at full draw. Mathews quiet of course, and I'd have to agree with you and others that Mathews may be the best all around, squared away company on the market today. I really am impressed with their total shooting systems and the company as a whole.

The Carbon one just didn't do it for me. I shoot bows in performance, never in comfort. To me, there are plenty of easy drawing, smooth, slower bows on the market that I don't need to shoot them in comfort. I want to see what they feel like in performance. Same with the Omnia, no point in shooting a speed bow with smooth mods, just buy a slower bow then. That bow was built for speed, so shoot it as such. If it's too much, then drop your draw weight (can't wait for the comments on this). For a short ATA bow though, it held on target great and felt pretty good at full draw, but again, I prefer later nger ATA bows.

The SS 34 (in performance) was my favorite of the day. Loved the feel, and how it pointed. A small stack on the back end, but definitely not like bowtechs in performance of the past. It just fit me I think. I'd even put it head to head with my Mach 34.

Like I said, it's awesome to see how different everyone is in what they like in a bow. That ks again for taking the time to post your findings.
 

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Thanks Matt! Good review. I left Hoyt and went all in with Mathews last year with the V3X33 and 29 due to the absolute crap-show at a dealer over the crazy centershot and shimming of the RX-7. I have been extremely happy with the Mathews bows and company in general. I also picked up a beautiful Triax to play with. They all tuned perfectly down the center with a simple tophat adjustment and I love the V3X draw cycle with 80% let off! It looks like I may be adding a P4 29 with all the fixins to my collection very soon! Happy shooting!

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

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Great write-up. I always find it amazing how different people have very different perceptions of the same bows. This is why we need to keep supporting all the companies and not ****ting on the stuff we don't personally like. Variety and choices so everyone can find what is right for them.
 

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Thanks for the time on the write up. That's why I love this sight. The difference of opinion. A ton of what makes a good bow to the INDIVIDUAL is super subjective. People on here get so upset when someone says they don't like their personal bow of choice, and there is no need for it!

It turns out I actually shot the Phase 4 33, SS34, and Carbon one head to head today for comparison too! I am a PSE, (I'm currently shooting a Mach 34 , elite Omnia,and a Darton Spectre e 32) Darton, Elite, and Athens dealer, but we don't carry those other brands because the area is dealer protected so I have to go to another shop to shoot the new bows. Unlike you, I prefer 33"-35" bows. I didn't even ask to shoot the CP30, because it isn't my cup of tea. I only **** the Carbon one to see how bowtech did this year .

Personally, I thought the phase 4 33 was the smoothest of all felt great, and held excellent at full draw. Mathews quiet of course, and I'd have to agree with you and others that Mathews may be the best all around, squared away company on the market today. I really am impressed with their total shooting systems and the company as a whole.

The Carbon one just didn't do it for me. I shoot bows in performance, never in comfort. To me, there are plenty of easy drawing, smooth, slower bows on the market that I don't need to shoot them in comfort. I want to see what they feel like in performance. Same with the Omnia, no point in shooting a speed bow with smooth mods, just buy a slower bow then. That bow was built for speed, so shoot it as such. If it's too much, then drop your draw weight (can't wait for the comments on this). For a short ATA bow though, it held on target great and felt pretty good at full draw, but again, I prefer later nger ATA bows.

The SS 34 (in performance) was my favorite of the day. Loved the feel, and how it pointed. A small stack on the back end, but definitely not like bowtechs in performance of the past. It just fit me I think. I'd even put it head to head with my Mach 34.

Like I said, it's awesome to see how different everyone is in what they like in a bow. That ks again for taking the time to post your findings.
Not hating on BT but I’m wondering if they shouldn’t drop the flip mod altogether. Everyone that I know that bought BT flipped theirs to smooth and left them there.
 

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Mr. O- there was no wait. Walked right in. I was the only one on the “range” when it came time to try them all.
There May have been a half dozen customers when I left. It was perfect timing. And while over a hour, it’s a pleasant drive.
😯
Can't tell you the last time I was there that it wasn't a 2 hour wait. My buddy and I always joke that "nobody works".
 

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His conclusion (as cited) was based entirely in the draw cycle. Point is that it’s a very different experience with the smooth mods, not that he would have necessarily favored the bow over the others. But when anyone concludes the Mathews is great they are ignoring a suboptimal draw cycle vs other options - including the Omnia with smooth mods.
And when one declares a bow's draw cycle as "suboptimal" that is purely a subjective opinion. I've never drawn any Elite (or Prime) that I liked the draw cycle. Meanwhile others rave about it. There is a reason people go and shoot different bows before buying.
 

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And when one declares a bow's draw cycle as "suboptimal" that is purely a subjective opinion. I've never drawn any Elite (or Prime) that I liked the draw cycle. Meanwhile others rave about it. There is a reason people go and shoot different bows before buying.
I think the point is shoot all options offered from a bow. If the bow shoots and feels phenomenal but stiff and your using a speed mod why not see if the smooth makes it a winner? Not big deal I just think that was the point of predator.
 

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Lift, Run, Shoot
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And when one declares a bow's draw cycle as "suboptimal" that is purely a subjective opinion. I've never drawn any Elite (or Prime) that I liked the draw cycle. Meanwhile others rave about it. There is a reason people go and shoot different bows before buying.
And when one declares a bow's draw cycle as "suboptimal" that is purely a subjective opinion. I've never drawn any Elite (or Prime) that I liked the draw cycle. Meanwhile others rave about it. There is a reason people go and shoot different bows before buying.
My comment is a generalization based on the norm. Draw force curves are not subjective, they are fact. And the reality is that the SW cams are a lot stiffer in the back end of the draw cycle with an obvious “hump” feel before dropping into valley in standard 85% mods compared to a lot of draw cycles from other bows. Also a reality that the norm for the human body is relative weakness during that late stage of the draw cycle vs earlier in the cycle. So yes, one’s perception of how a draw cycle “feels” is subjective but to prefer a SW draw you are either a biological anomaly or have a really odd/bad draw approach, such as drawing super fast and slamming into the stops in which case you may build enough momentum early in the cycle where you are stronger such that you power through the back end of the cycle. There are a lot of competitive draw cycles that fit the human body better. Sorry, just a reality as much as you may wish to not recognize it. Honestly most people are ignorant to these realities and just rationalize that they like a draw cycle because it validates their decision (which was almost certainly driven by other criteria).
 
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My comment is a generalization based on the norm. Draw force curves are not subjective, they are fact. And the reality is that the SW cams are a lot stiffer in the back end of the draw cycle with an obvious “hump” feel before dropping into valley in standard 85% mods compared to a lot of draw cycles from other bows. Also a reality that the norm for the human body is relative weakness during that late stage of the draw cycle vs earlier in the cycle. So yes, one’s perception of how a draw cycle “feels” is subjective but to prefer a SW draw you are either a biological anomaly or have a really odd/bad draw approach, such as drawing super fast and slamming into the stops in which case you may build enough momentum early in the cycle where you are stronger such that you power through the back end of the cycle. There are a lot of competitive draw cycles that fit the human body better. Sorry, just a reality as much as you may wish to not recognize it. Honestly most people are ignorant to these realities and just rationalize that they like a draw cycle because it validates their decision (which was almost certainly driven by other criteria).
The DFC on SW cams don’t show the hump on the back end you speak of. It hits peak weight quickly and holds peak weight for awhile. So stiff from start to finish. No humps though. I have the DFC at 27 inches I can post it if needed. May take a sec to find it as I don’t come to this sight very often anymore but I’ve got the graph.
 
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