[Bbd16]

Excuse my drawing skills. The graph is in the numbers though. No humps. It’s identical to the original cross centric cam. Holds peak weight just over an inch longer that’s it. The bulk of the draw cycle is right through the middle of the cycle. Not at the back end.

 

[skeeter.j73]

Thanks Matt! Good review. I left Hoyt and went all in with Mathews last year with the V3X33 and 29 due to the absolute crap-show at a dealer over the crazy centershot and shimming of the RX-7. I have been extremely happy with the Mathews bows and company in general. I also picked up a beautiful Triax to play with. They all tuned perfectly down the center with a simple tophat adjustment and I love the V3X draw cycle with 80% let off! It looks like I may be adding a P4 29 with all the fixins to my collection very soon! Happy shooting!

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Did the RX7 have shimming issues?

 

[Predator]

The DFC on SW cams don’t show the hump on the back end you speak of. It hits peak weight quickly and holds peak weight for awhile. So stiff from start to finish. No humps though. I have the DFC at 27 inches I can post it if needed. May take a sec to find it as I don’t come to this sight very often anymore but I’ve got the graph.

You are correct. The DFC shows the peak building and holding until much later in the draw cycle than most other bows which is what causes the felt hump before dropping in at 85 because most aren’t used to peak holding that late and your body isn’t designed to deal with it. Now, if you only shoot SW can bows you will adapt somewhat to it and it won’t feel as noticeable. Of course you could be doing damage to your body but that’s a combination of too much peak weight (for your capabilities) and an unkind draw cycle.

 

[skeeter.j73]

Scratched an early ‘23 model itch this morning. Shot each bow at 60-61lbs except for the Omnia was 63. All set at 28.5”. Loop and rest only.
Tried to keep an open mind, but an earlier post about the Phase 4 today said it best about preconceived notions.

The SS34 was simply too long for my liking. Reminiscent of the Mathews 33. Even is Comfort setting, I did not care for the draw, it just felt weird to me.

The CP30 was very nice all the way around. Well balanced, super smooth draw cycle, quiet at the shot with just a bit of post shot vibration.

Omnia was a big no based upon draw cycle. It was using the Performance mods and I did not like the draw cycle at all. The grip is sweet in typical Elite fashion.

P4 was last. The bow was decked out with all of the latest hardware. It is a sweetheart of a bow. Surprised me just how much I liked it. I have no fresh memories to make a comparison to the V3X29. The bow possesses all of the typical Mathews characteristics talked about here enough. The equipped bow balanced and held very nicely, like crazy good. I’m not a back bar user, but if I buy a P4-29 I will be.

My top picks for today were the CP30 and P4-29. The pics show how close they are in overall length, the Mathews having a slightly longer riser

Waiting now on Prime.

I did not shoot any carbon bows. After 3 seasons with a Mach 1, I’m moving away from them for no reason but simply wanting a change.
View attachment 7742067 View attachment 7742068 View attachment 7742069 View attachment 7742070

Thanks

 

[Predator]

Excuse my drawing skills. The graph is in the numbers though. No humps. It’s identical to the original cross centric cam. Holds peak weight just over an inch longer that’s it. The bulk of the draw cycle is right through the middle of the cycle. Not at the back end.

Seen it a bunch of times - very aware of it. The original cross centric wasn’t a great draw cycle to begin with but they clearly made it worse with the SW. A full inch of 70#s of pressure at that late stage of the cycle relative to your body function and relative strength throughout the cycle is HUGE! Makes a massive difference in feel and impact to your body.

 

[skeeter.j73]

Scratched an early ‘23 model itch this morning. Shot each bow at 60-61lbs except for the Omnia was 63. All set at 28.5”. Loop and rest only.
Tried to keep an open mind, but an earlier post about the Phase 4 today said it best about preconceived notions.

The SS34 was simply too long for my liking. Reminiscent of the Mathews 33. Even is Comfort setting, I did not care for the draw, it just felt weird to me.

The CP30 was very nice all the way around. Well balanced, super smooth draw cycle, quiet at the shot with just a bit of post shot vibration.

Omnia was a big no based upon draw cycle. It was using the Performance mods and I did not like the draw cycle at all. The grip is sweet in typical Elite fashion.

P4 was last. The bow was decked out with all of the latest hardware. It is a sweetheart of a bow. Surprised me just how much I liked it. I have no fresh memories to make a comparison to the V3X29. The bow possesses all of the typical Mathews characteristics talked about here enough. The equipped bow balanced and held very nicely, like crazy good. I’m not a back bar user, but if I buy a P4-29 I will be.

My top picks for today were the CP30 and P4-29. The pics show how close they are in overall length, the Mathews having a slightly longer riser

Waiting now on Prime.

I did not shoot any carbon bows. After 3 seasons with a Mach 1, I’m moving away from them for no reason but simply wanting a change.
View attachment 7742067 View attachment 7742068 View attachment 7742069 View attachment 7742070

That Bowtech ss34 is the smoothest draw there is at 28” nothing else compared. Also it holds its speed and retains more speed with a 600 grain arrow through chrono better than any of the other bows at 28” so far. Only other bow that come close to retaining its speed with heavier arrows is the PSE omen and the Mach 34 with S2 cam.

 

[Bbd16]

You are correct. The DFC shows the peak building and holding until much later in the draw cycle than most other bows which is what causes the felt hump before dropping in at 85 because most aren’t used peak holding that late and your body isn’t designed to deal with it. Now, if you only shoot SW can bows you will adapt somewhat to it and it won’t feel as noticeable. Of course you could be doing damage to your body but that’s a combination of too much peak weight (for your capabilities) and an unkind draw cycle.

Right which is why people are saying it’s a deceiving feel depending on which human it is. For me I “feel” a hump in a bow like the impulse. I don’t notice the peak weight holding for an or 2 more in the SW cam although it. Clearly does. Again it’s just Gona be different for different people. We’ll always see different “feels” for guys with good range of motion in the back and shoulders they may not notice it. At 75lbs I can draw it back and inch at a time and barely even touch the stops on the back end. For others they may slam into the wall on the same bow. Some of the faster bowtech bows I feel a bigger “hump” and I think it’s just simply because it builds later. Starts off easier and builds as it goes.

 

[Bbd16]

Seen it a bunch of times - very aware of it. The original cross centric wasn’t a great draw cycle to begin with but they clearly made it worse with the SW. A full inch of 70#s of pressure at that late stage of the cycle relative to your body function and relative strength throughout the cycle is HUGE! Makes a massive difference in feel and impact to your body.

It may be huge to some. Me at 32 years old and an athlete I could shoot it at 100 pounds laying flat on my back. You can’t put your feels and your capabilities on anyone else. It’s clearly subjective as you see here in this thread.

There’s also some tricks to getting the SW cam to FEEL softer in the back end which I covered in the vertix tuning thread if you care to go back and read through it all. Basically using the cables keeping the peak weight at 70.5 or less gives the bow a much softer FEEL vs the same bow with 2 twist in each cable pulling 71.5lbs. Although it’s only 1lb difference the subjective feel would make u believe it’s 4-5 pounds lighter and it just has to do with the shape of the module and how it effects it during the end of the cycle. We’re getting into heavy details at this point I don’t care to dive into it all again but with the right skill set you can make it happen.

You see it often with guys reviewing and saying it’s super stiff or has a big hump etc.. and that’s what happened to most of them they are shooting it at 71.5 - 72.5lbs bc their local shop doesn’t have a clue like most

There’s without a doubt “softer” drawing bows out there that will get close to the speeds of the SW can which is what I believe to be your point and I’d agree mostly.

 

[NCAVI8TOR]

Did the RX7 have shimming issues?

Not gonna discuss it here. Some tuned just fine. Some required a wild outside centershot. My OCD would not accept that as being satisfactory.

Let's not drift this thread any further off course.

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[MasterOfPupets]

Not hating on BT but I’m wondering if they shouldn’t drop the flip mod altogether. Everyone that I know that bought BT flipped theirs to smooth and left them there.

I'd say of the people I know it's about even between the two. It's a great tech.

 

[Bbd16]

My concern with the phase 4 is the rubber between the limbs. I’m interested to see how the rubber reacts in 90 degree heat vs how it reacts in -6 degree cold after sitting for 6 hours. There’s no question the rubber isn’t going o react the same in both conditions. Whether that is going to affect the performance will be up for grabs. There’s a lot of limb tip movement In these bows through the cycle That’s obviously how they change the peak weight with mods is by bending the limbs more or less etc..

the first argument is going to be “I’m sure Mathews has tested this” and I’d like to believe so but when I brought it to their attention they needed another tophat set allowing you to place the cam in the center of the limbs their response was that “I’m to picky and to detailed in my tuning process” and that may be true but it just shows they don’t always pay attention to the finest details and their acceptable range is not the same as mine.

sounds like a good excuse to buy one and test it for myself 🤷‍♂️

 

[Mr. October]

My comment is a generalization based on the norm. Draw force curves are not subjective, they are fact. And the reality is that the SW cams are a lot stiffer in the back end of the draw cycle with an obvious “hump” feel before dropping into valley in standard 85% mods compared to a lot of draw cycles from other bows. Also a reality that the norm for the human body is relative weakness during that late stage of the draw cycle vs earlier in the cycle. So yes, one’s perception of how a draw cycle “feels” is subjective but to prefer a SW draw you are either a biological anomaly or have a really odd/bad draw approach, such as drawing super fast and slamming into the stops in which case you may build enough momentum early in the cycle where you are stronger such that you power through the back end of the cycle. There are a lot of competitive draw cycles that fit the human body better. Sorry, just a reality as much as you may wish to not recognize it. Honestly most people are ignorant to these realities and just rationalize that they like a draw cycle because it validates their decision (which was almost certainly driven by other criteria).

Your post referred to draw cycle . . not draw force curve. The OP went and tested different bows and stated a preference. Personally, I don't like the draw cycle of the switch weight cams either. It was a non-starter for me when I last bought a bow. Regardless of what you or I think or what a graph on a piece of paper shows, people do draw, shoot, and perceive bows differently so there is no wrong when making a decision on preference.

 

[highwaynorth]

Not hating on BT but I’m wondering if they shouldn’t drop the flip mod altogether. Everyone that I know that bought BT flipped theirs to smooth and left them there.

I have shot every Bowtech I have owned in performance mode. I like the draw cycle, but
I have mine set in the 28" mod setting. It's comical when people complain about a bow
not making it's speed rating, but the first thing they do is set it up in slow mode.I don't want to
buy a 340 ibo rated bow to turn it into a 330 ibo bow.

 

[138104]

Right now Omnia is at about 84%. This season I was running Enkore at about 79% for a MT elk hunt. Have jacked around with it a bit since - will likely be selling the bow before long though.

Which one are you selling?

 

[Predator]

Which one are you selling?

Not listed yet but Enkore (in KUIU Verde - RH 70# with custom sand trap string stop). Incredible bow honestly.

 

[Predator]

Your post referred to draw cycle . . not draw force curve. The OP went and tested different bows and stated a preference. Personally, I don't like the draw cycle of the switch weight cams either. It was a non-starter for me when I last bought a bow. Regardless of what you or I think or what a graph on a piece of paper shows, people do draw, shoot, and perceive bows differently so there is no wrong when making a decision on preference.

Agree and never said his decision based on preference was wrong - hopefully you weren’t implying otherwise.

 

[gymrat70]

I have shot every Bowtech I have owned in performance mode. I like the draw cycle, but
I have mine set in the 28" mod setting. It's comical when people complain about a bow
not making it's speed rating, but the first thing they do is set it up in slow mode.I don't want to
buy a 340 ibo rated bow to turn it into a 330 ibo bow.

I certainly see the advantage of this feature just relaying what I have seen. Most BT’s I’m around are at 3D shoots so a lot of shooters go smooth mode, especially known shooters where speed doesn’t matter as much. The smooth mode helps when you’re shooting a lot of arrows in a day as well. My shoulder would put me in smooth mode pretty fast when we’re talking upwards of 100 shots in a day.

 

[skeeter.j73]

Not gonna discuss it here. Some tuned just fine. Some required a wild outside centershot. My OCD would not accept that as being satisfactory.

Let's not drift this thread any further off course.

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I sure would like the details on the issues if you ever have a moment.

 

[Frubois]

Great write-up. I always find it amazing how different people have very different perceptions of the same bows. This is why we need to keep supporting all the companies and not ****ting on the stuff we don't personally like. Variety and choices so everyone can find what is right for them.

That was my thinking as well.

The Omnia on performance at 65# and #62 @ 28" was incredibly smooth straight back to me. Maybe a touch stiff at first but no humpty dumpty at all. I cannot imagine what it feels like on smooth and I probably won't be buying the mod to find out. The grip just feels amazing, and overall length is about perfect to me so I'm sold.

I never shot the new mathews this year because I disliked the v3xs draw cycle. Awesome bow but for the lackluster speeds it produces I felt the draw cycle should have been considerably better.

 

[Gator88]

Scratched an early ‘23 model itch this morning. Shot each bow at 60-61lbs except for the Omnia was 63. All set at 28.5”. Loop and rest only.
Tried to keep an open mind, but an earlier post about the Phase 4 today said it best about preconceived notions.

The SS34 was simply too long for my liking. Reminiscent of the Mathews 33. Even is Comfort setting, I did not care for the draw, it just felt weird to me.

The CP30 was very nice all the way around. Well balanced, super smooth draw cycle, quiet at the shot with just a bit of post shot vibration.

Omnia was a big no based upon draw cycle. It was using the Performance mods and I did not like the draw cycle at all. The grip is sweet in typical Elite fashion.

P4 was last. The bow was decked out with all of the latest hardware. It is a sweetheart of a bow. Surprised me just how much I liked it. I have no fresh memories to make a comparison to the V3X29. The bow possesses all of the typical Mathews characteristics talked about here enough. The equipped bow balanced and held very nicely, like crazy good. I’m not a back bar user, but if I buy a P4-29 I will be.

My top picks for today were the CP30 and P4-29. The pics show how close they are in overall length, the Mathews having a slightly longer riser

Waiting now on Prime.

I did not shoot any carbon bows. After 3 seasons with a Mach 1, I’m moving away from them for no reason but simply wanting a change.
View attachment 7742067 View attachment 7742068 View attachment 7742069 View attachment 7742070

Good for you for checking em all out! I’ll keep your impressions in mind when I make my decision! I’ve been shooting Mathews since the triax and never even shot a Hoyt before, and I believe it’s time I get my hands on a ventum, pro or whatever the heck the new ones called. My local shops sells more prime bows than any other and am waiting on their release as well. I have so many bows now, it’s the last thing in need. Definitely wanna get my hands on the new
Hoyt tho, and that bear execute 32.