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157 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, here's the thing....

I was using a stab that was considerably longer than the 8" B-Stinger that I'm using now. Close to the bow is 9 oz of weight and on the end another 2. Add to this, an additional 6 ounces connected directly to the Bow just above the limb pocket, 5 of those on the opposite side of the site..

This configuration allows for rock solid holding and aiming.

I guess the question is...

Are longer, more ridged stabs necessary?

659 Posts
The laws of phisics say that a longer stab will have a higher moment of inertia making it harder to move from a stand still. Longer stabs arent very practical on a hunting rig though . also the longer the stab , less weight is required on the end to get the same effect as a short heavy one. I have an article at home somewhere that explains this a lot better than i can . ill see if i can find it and ill post it here.

659 Posts
credit goes to George Ryals IV . it is to large as a pdf so i copied and pasted the text. i could send you the original if you want it.
Stabilizers, over the last decade or so, have become all about vibration damping.
Sales of stabilizers and the perceived quality of a stabilizer are measured by how
dead it makes the bow feel. Vibration damping isn’t the most important thing
stabilizers are for. While vibration reduction is nice, it doesn’t do anything for overall
accuracy. For instance, in high speed video, it is easy to see that the arrow is ten yards in
front of the bow by the time the punch of the shot is felt.
Stability improves accuracy is two ways. There is a mechanical improvement and a
mental improvement. The mechanical improvement is just simple aiming stability. The
tighter your hold is, the tighter your groups are going to be. That part is pretty easy to put
your finger on. The mental improvement is less straightforward and it affects different
shooters in different ways.
Stability, shot execution, and form are intrinsically connected to each other. If there is a
problem in one area it creates problems in the other areas. It’s a cycle that feeds itself. You
can give it positive input and see a cascading effect through all three parts of the cycle. It
works something like this. A stabilizer adds stability to the bow, your dot moves more
slowly, and covers less area on the target. Added stability allows you to relax a little
mentally, and reduces the struggle to keep the dot centered. Your form and frame softens a
little. You find it easier to hold the bow with a relaxed pressure. Hardness through your
framework and muscles can create rigidity that causes a low frequency vibration in the bow
that never really settles. Softening the bow movement with stabilizers and gaining better
balance, helps the bow feel lighter and stay on target with less effort. The overall mental
ease, form relaxation, and the stability it creates allows your shot execution to speed up.
Soft, relaxed hands that are elongated under the pressure of your form give a more
consistent and timely activation of the release. Your stabilizers are a seemingly simple part
of your setup; who would have thought that you could fix so many things with a good
stabilizer rig?
Though it doesn’t need to be said, negative input in any area of the cycle of stability, shot
execution, and form can have the same cascading effect, but it’s the kind you don’t want.
Without going into too much detail… Ever had a “worst day ever”? That’s what that negative
input and its effects feels like.
Form, and shot execution do play an equal role, but lets concentrate on stability;
specifically, your stabilizer configuration. I see shooters all the time set up their new bows
with just any old stabilizer rod. Many arbitrarily put weight against the riser, many use side
rods or V‐Bar kits, because everyone else uses them. Often I see people using the stabilizer
rod with no weight on the end. You can’t swing a cat by the tail without hitting a stabilizer
company these days. Everyone has a rod out now that promises to be the cure for
everything under the sun. They all have their sales pitches and they all have a pretty goodlooking
product too. In fact some of the stabilizer setups walking around out there are quite
beautiful, Ineffective in my opinion, but beautiful nonetheless. There is a lot of voodoo flying
around concerning stabilizers, and the bulk of the people out there don’t really understand
how it works or how to use the laws of stabilization to create the most effective setup.
Essentially the purpose of the stabilizer and adding weight to a bow is to raise its
moment of inertia. Moment Of Inertia (MOI) is the measure of an object’s resistance to
rotation. A high MOI is very resistant to torque. A low MOI is not resistant at all and is very
unforgiving. The lower your moment of inertia, the more perfect you have to be. Your aim
has to be perfect, your execution has to be perfect, and your form and muscle consistency
has to be exact from shot to shot.
Good, well made, stabilizer setups most effectively raise your MOI. Your stabilizer needs
to be as light as air and it needs to separate the most of its mass as far away from the bow as
possible. The stabilizer also has to be rigid with almost no flex. Limber rods allow the bow
to move through the flexible range of the rod before the mass of your stabilizer weights can
have their greatest effect on rotation. There are many rods out there that are pretty stiff.
The best way to check your rig is to just grab the rod in each hand and give it a bend. If you
feel flex at all, it’s likely that your rod is allowing minor modifications to your aim after the
release opens. Those shots that you feel are less than perfect end up just outside the line.
The forgiveness that an ultra stiff rod can afford can keep those “just out hits” ‐ “Just in”.
Often the weights on a stabilizer are separated from the rod with rubber or some other
vibration damping material. This makes the bow feel great. However if the rubber is too soft
it can allow movement of the system before the arrow can leave, you are reducing the
effectiveness of the weight. Think about this for a second. If the weight is what keeps the
bow still as it sits on a rigid rod, why would you separate that weight from the rod with a
flexible mount?
Many Stabilizers are heavy overall through their entire length. Some have vibrationdamping
pistons; oil filled bladders, sand kits, and the like in the rear of the rod close to the
bow. Though these vibration‐damping modules do make the bow feel great by reducing
much of the ringing vibration out of the bow, they do little or nothing to increase the
forgiveness factor of the bow. Today’s bows are pretty heavy before you add anything to
them at all, so when you add more weight with the idea of making the bow more forgiving
and stable, you have to be sure the weight is located in the proper spot to give you the most
forgiveness. Just mass weight alone doesn’t create accuracy. Mass and balance together will
be most effective in reducing tremor and keeping the bow still while it cycles and launches
the arrow.
When you are finding the balance that works for you there are several clues you can
watch for. Keeping a close handle on the feel of the bow is a big part of your initial setup.
You can also watch the shape, size, and speed of your sight on the target for valuable clues
that point you to your next step toward perfect stabilization. The first step to get started is
to take a look at your current setup. If you have any weight right against the bow, figure out
how much it weighs and get rid of it. Weight right up against the bow resists transitional
force on the bow.
Transitional resistance keeps
the bow on the track your
form puts it on. That does not
mean that track will be
straight with the Xring
Transitional resistance keeps the
bow traveling straight towards the
direction you torqued it to. This
doesn’t mean it’s straight to the
target. It only means that it maintains
whatever line you put it on.
Transitional resistance doesn’t add forgiveness or accuracy unless your form is perfect. The
overall mass weight that it adds to your bow may contribute to overall stability, but if it
were on the ends of the rods it would add forgiveness, accuracy, and stability at the same
time. The weight located out on the ends of the rods resist rotational forces. The resistance
to rotational force will keep your bow still longer in the presence of torque or some other
shooting error. This is where the rubber meets the road when you are trying to use
stabilization to add accuracy.
Rotational resistance is imparted by the weight that is positioned out on
the ends of the rods. This gives the bow forgiveness and accuracy
We’re going to move that weight that you removed from right against the bow out to the
ends of the rod in a later step. For now, lets say you have a total of 14 ounces on your bow
not including the rods themselves. If your rod has a heavy rear module, you will want to
think about getting rid of the module. That weight right against the bow isn’t doing anything
but making your bow heavy. You can move that weight from against the bow out to the ends
of the rods where it has the most effectiveness.
First of all I want you to shoot your bow without any stabilization at all so you can get a
feel for how it moves. Without stabilization you can see the effects of draw length issues,
tension in your frame, or misalignments in your form. However that is a whole other article
worth of information. Once you have shot your bow without rods you can watch the affects
when you add the rod and weight. After adding the rods and no weight you should barely
notice any change at all, though you will see a very slight balance change. While you are
shooting the rods with no weight at all installed notice your sight movement and direction.
You may also be able to see the side to side waggle in the rod at full draw as well.
Waggle is the sharp side to side
pattern in your stabilizer tip
and sight movement. Relaxing
the grip as much as possible or
adding a little tip weight will
clear this up.
You can reduce the waggle to some degree by relaxing your bow‐hand more. Here is where
you will add your first bit of weight. You will be paying close attention to the weight you add
and how much it tames the waggle in the tip of your long rod.
Your long rod is the leverage in the system It will do the bulk of the correction. Your side
rods are the balance to offset the leverage of the front rod. Imagine watching a tight rope
walker with a very short stick. They will have to use more muscle to stay balance and will
noticeably more wobbly as they walk the line. The longer the pole the tight rope walker has,
the easier it is for them to relax and balance themselves. Now let’s say he has a 20’ pole and
he is holding by one end. It would make it nearly impossible to walk the line because he is
struggling with the weight and leverage of the pole. When he holds the pole in the center he
can allow it to balance itself and use very little force and muscle.
The side rod can help
vertical tilt and
offset the leverage of
the front rod. Great
balance will make a
heavy rig feel lighter.
Many people think the
side rod is there to offset
the weight of the sight.
Though hanging the
weight off to one side
helps reduce the natural cant of the shooter. That cant isn’t really caused by the weight of
the sight. The sight is so close to the center line of the bow, it would have to be very heavy to
really have a significant effect on your bow balance. The cant or offset is really caused by
your bow arm. The twin bones in your forearm are in a slightly coiled or in a twisted state to
hold the bow upright. As you relax through the shot these bones begin to uncoil to parallel.
You will want to add weight to your rear rod or rods to offset the leverage of your long rod.
You can split this weight between two rods or put it all on one rod. Whatever feels best to
you will work just fine.
The formula for finding the rear rod weight is Length x weight, or length of your long rod
multiplied by the weight on its tip. You will then divide that number by the length of your
rear rod. For example I have a 33” B‐Stinger XL Premiere on my Hoyt Contender, and I have
a 12 inch side rod. I have 5 oz on the end of
my long rod, so 33” x 5oz = 165”oz. I will
divide 165 by my side rod length (12”) and I
arrive at 13.5oz. I just round up to 14oz
because the B‐Stinger weights come in one
ounce increments. You may be thinking,
“WOW, 14oz is a lot of weight.” If that weight
is too much for you to hold up, you can use
longer rods and reduce the weight. If I
wanted the same leverage against torque but
with lighter weight I can use the same
formula. Currently I have 165”ounces. If I
change my 33” stabilizer to a 40”, I can reduce the weight by an ounce and still have the
same leverage. If I switch to a 15” side rod I can reduce the weight by 3 oz. A good rule of
thumb to remember is “twice the distance, half the weight”

659 Posts
By offsetting the leverage of your long rod, you can create a basic balance like the tight
rope walker. Though 14 oz sounds like a lot of weight, you will be amazed at how light that
feels when it is in balance. The extra mass will reduce the effect of muscle tremor while you
aim and preloaded torque as the arrow is launched. I recommend shooting as much weight
as you can work up to as long as it is in balance.
Paying attention to your sight pattern as you aim gives will let you know when to make
changes. The rules I am about to lay out for you are basic rules of thumb. As you learn more
and are observant to changes in your hold pattern you may modify these rules based on
your own shooting style.
Holding Weight Verses overall Mass weight – There has to be equilibrium or balance
between your holding weight at full draw and the overall mass weight of your complete rig.
If your overall mass weight of the bow is too light your hold pattern will be choppy and
unpredictable. Light muscle tremor and slight bobbles will not be damped at all resulting in
a hard sharp sight pattern. If you see a fast moving circular motion that tends to over‐travel
what you are trying to aim at, or it takes a long time to get the bow settled into a tight
pattern your bow weight is too heavy or
your holding weight is too light.
If you see a sharp sight pattern
that never settles, you can
decrease your peak weight or
increase your overall mass
A loose random float that never
settles or tends to overtravel
what you are trying to aim at,
your bow is too heavy. Reduce
overall bow weight or raise peak
Directional float – once you get your balance feeling good and you get your overall
mass weight feeling great, you can begin to fine tune the float. In some cases the leverage of
the rod can change the hold pattern as you apply pressure through the shot. The dot in your
scope may rise of bounce up as you aim, or it may sink or bounce down in a light bobbling
motion. There is an easy fix for this. The rule of thumb is “if it pops up, move the weight
forward. If it drops down move the weight back.” I do need to qualify one thing first. When I
say drop down, I don’t mean freezing low. If you are freezing, that is a whole other problem
that doesn’t involve your stabilizers. If your leverage is a little too much or you shoot with a
high wrist style, you will see your sight picture sink or bounce down then back up to the
middle. If you use a lot of heel in your grip or you don’t have enough tip weight, you will see
lift or an upward tick as you pull through the shot. Keeping a close eye on the fine nuances
of your hold pattern can help you go a long way while you are dialing in your stabilizer
setup. Granted other things like draw length, form tension, and a miss set peep height can
cause some of the issues I have gone through here, but they look a little different. Keep your
eye out for the next issue of Archery Magazine and I will go over some other stability tricks
that will make your bow much smoother and aim better than you ever thought possible.

3,865 Posts
I believe the longer stabilizer will put you to a higher ball game ;)

230 Posts
I used to shoot with my 6" for hunting with over 15 oz on it. Now I much prefer my 10" stabilizer with 5 oz for hunting and 10 oz for 3D

2,474 Posts
Contact Doinker and talk to Erick Hall he is very good at setups and will help you out.Tell him Dan Dodge told you to call.
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