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Discussion Starter #1
I posted a question similar to this in the Gen forum, but I was hoping to get a bit more info from the field guys. Im sure you guys are sick of me already, but Im just trying to figure some of these things out in my head....

What is the length and weight on the end of your stabilizer and vbars? Ive been trying to balance my XLR, and was curious what others are using, of course with a similar ata, etc... Is it true that heavier is better? yet... im not used to such a heavy bow, and Im getting tired pretty fast...

Sorry fellas.. im just kinda lost on this one, and dont know where to start...

Thanks..

B~ :darkbeer:
 

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Brad,
No one is going to get tired of your questions, but this one simply can not be answered other than in general terms. What works for me may or may not work for you. I have 4oz on the end of a 36" front BStinger - on my 12" back BStinger, I have 9 oz. Why? Because, so far, that's what seems to work best for me.

Is more always better? Not necessarily. Just the past weekend at DCWC, Mac had a screw break between some of the weights on his back stab (that's what he gets for using cheap stuff :shade:). Yesterday he came to my house for some Senior Games practice. He had not "fixed" the break from Sat. and when I asked him "why", he said that the current set up seemed to work better. AND, his scores reflected that.

So experiment, but DO NOT think that you can shoot 8-10 arrows and make a sound decision on what works best for you. For me it took many different variations of front/back weight and 100s of arrows shot with each iterations.
 

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Like has been said 50 trillion times when talking about this subject....it's all personal preference.

People always think height/size, bow, venue plays a big part in it.....it doesn't.

Most people try and set the bow up to "balance"....when they need to be setting the bow up to make them hold better or balance better in their hand at full draw.

If I put my bow on a bow rack that both limbs rest on the rack the thing about flips over....just hold it in my hand without drawing it and it does the same thing....draw the bow back and the bubble is level and it sits there perfectly balanced.

There are people that think adding weight to one side is to balance out the sight...not true. There are people that swear your stab should just be long enough to rest the bow on the ground to rest after the shot....not true in fact I very rarely do this at all...I use a bow holster :wink:. It may have been the reason some originally went to a long rod back in the day....but that has nothing to do with stabilization or balance.

Some people don't like rods over a certain length....Jesse doesn't like a rod much longer then 30" period.....some people don't care really....I am one of those people as long as it's at least 30"....I have a 35" B-Stinger but could get a 33" rod to work just fine.

My stab is the same one that I had on my PE with both 2000 and 3000s...and it's working fine on my Katera XL which is only 35"...yes my stab is as long as my bow. I just need more weight since the bow is lighter over all.

But with the side mount and QD on the bow the weight is 37" away from the bow. I have 5 oz on the end although I am playing with 6...my 12" side bar has 11 oz and I am playing with more on that as well.

Too many people get caught up trying to add too much weight because so and so shoots a bunch....heavier is only better if you can handle heavier.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Like has been said 50 trillion times when talking about this subject....it's all personal preference.

People always think height/size, bow, venue plays a big part in it.....it doesn't.

Most people try and set the bow up to "balance"....when they need to be setting the bow up to make them hold better or balance better in their hand at full draw.

If I put my bow on a bow rack that both limbs rest on the rack the thing about flips over....just hold it in my hand without drawing it and it does the same thing....draw the bow back and the bubble is level and it sits there perfectly balanced.

There are people that think adding weight to one side is to balance out the sight...not true. There are people that swear your stab should just be long enough to rest the bow on the ground to rest after the shot....not true in fact I very rarely do this at all...I use a bow holster :wink:. It may have been the reason some originally went to a long rod back in the day....but that has nothing to do with stabilization or balance.

Some people don't like rods over a certain length....Jesse doesn't like a rod much longer then 30" period.....some people don't care really....I am one of those people as long as it's at least 30"....I have a 35" B-Stinger but could get a 33" rod to work just fine.

My stab is the same one that I had on my PE with both 2000 and 3000s...and it's working fine on my Katera XL which is only 35"...yes my stab is as long as my bow. I just need more weight since the bow is lighter over all.

But with the side mount and QD on the bow the weight is 37" away from the bow. I have 5 oz on the end although I am playing with 6...my 12" side bar has 11 oz and I am playing with more on that as well.

Too many people get caught up trying to add too much weight because so and so shoots a bunch....heavier is only better if you can handle heavier.
That seems to be my first problem... Ive been adding more and more weight, and really, ive been getting so tired, and sore shoulder muscles, because Im not used to that much weight... I guess I just never knew where a good starting point was...
 

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I have shot everything from 5oz to 14oz on the front and a side bar or two with anywhere from 6 to 25oz....

Currently at 7oz out front and 7 on the side. Here is what I have found in my experimentations...

< 6oz out front and the bow will sometimes snap to the left after the shot. It will also be very choppy when holding.
>11oz out front and my arrows will always hit a touch low, no matter how much I move my sight. Holds great, just doesn't score well.

I used to go by the formula of front inches * front oz. / sidebar inches * side oz.

That leads to a good starting point that is pretty well balanced. Without at least 5oz upfront, the bow will kick up with this setup for me.

Now Reo Wilde shoot 19oz on the front and 14oz on the side bar! I got to hold/draw his bow and it settle in nicely. I would tire out in about 10 shots, but it held well.

My suggestion is this....forget any other setup you've tried....shoot the bow without stabilizers at all and see what it does. Write it down! Put the bars on with no weights. Shoot and see what it does....Write it down!! Now add weight in small increments and try to fix one problem at a time. Get it to hold as well as you can. After that, you can take into account your holding weight vs. the bow mass weight. That should seal the deal!
 

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If you havent already read it get a hold of the latest issue of archery magazine and read grivs article on stabilization, lots of good info there.
 

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I have 5 on the front, and 11 on the back.
More weight is better, but it really is more of a matter of where the weight is located than overall weight. You want the weight as far away from the bow as possible. Weight located right at the bow is just wasted space. The further from the bow the weight is located the more effective it is going to be.
You might just have to build up the extra strength to handle the extra weight. I know I did. I went from about 8 onces total weight on both bars to 16 onces total weight over the winter. I did it by adding 1 or 2 onces at a time until I got used to it, then adding more.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have 5 on the front, and 11 on the back.
More weight is better, but it really is more of a matter of where the weight is located than overall weight. You want the weight as far away from the bow as possible. Weight located right at the bow is just wasted space. The further from the bow the weight is located the more effective it is going to be.
You might just have to build up the extra strength to handle the extra weight. I know I did. I went from about 8 onces total weight on both bars to 16 onces total weight over the winter. I did it by adding 1 or 2 onces at a time until I got used to it, then adding more.
Thanks for this... and to everyone else. I guess this really is just gonna be some time consuming trial and testing.... Guess I cant complain too much about that.

It is nice to know that Im not the only one that has/will have to take their time to get used to a heavier bow. I thought that I was doing something wrong when I was getting so tired and sore quickly. I certainly dont want to allow bad habits to creap in while im shooting, but I know Ill have to keep working at it.

One quick question...Is there an ideal position for the V-bars? Straight out versus 45 down, etc....?

Thanks...

B~
 

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Thanks for this... and to everyone else. I guess this really is just gonna be some time consuming trial and testing.... Guess I cant complain too much about that.

It is nice to know that Im not the only one that has/will have to take their time to get used to a heavier bow. I thought that I was doing something wrong when I was getting so tired and sore quickly. I certainly dont want to allow bad habits to creap in while im shooting, but I know Ill have to keep working at it.

One quick question...Is there an ideal position for the V-bars? Straight out versus 45 down, etc....?

Thanks...

B~


As B/H already hit on, the V-bar theory is one of the biggest misconceptions in the big stabilization theory. Most people think that the V-bar is to offset the weight of the sight, and rest attached to the other side of the bow. That simply is not the truth. The sight, and rest weigh so little, and are mounted so close to the riser that they have very little effect on the vertical balance.
Side bars, and v-bars are to offset your natural cant. When your bow arm is extended the bones in your forearm twist just a little giving you a natural cant. You use a side bar to offset the natural cant pulling the bow back upright. Just like with your front rod the further you keep the weight from the bow the less weight you will need to obtain the desired result. With all the weight I have on my side bor now I need to keep it pulled in tight, but as I was working up the strength to handle the weight I had the bar swung out away from the string.
The best thing to do is play with position based on what weight you have now. Swing it out away from the string until when you settle into your anchor the bow doesn't want to naturally roll to the left or right. As you add weight to the bar move it in toward the string a little to keep the same feel.
 

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Brad, if you have the sources, play around with different lengths and weights. This past indoors season, I used 36"/6 front, and 12"/14 side on a vantage elite. when I switched over to a moneymaker, i tried 30"/7 and 12"/17..eventually I found that 30"/6 and 15"/15 worked better for me. When I switched back over to my Hoyt last week, I found that 30"/6 and 10"/17 actually worked better then my previous Hoyt set up. It holds much, better, and the weight is not a problem. i also us a B-Stinger QD and offset mount. I have a little mass weight on the bow, and tips the scale at 9lbs. Like was mentioned, play around with some different set ups, and you'll find what works best for you.
 
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