Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,807 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Archery is a strange endeavor. You think you got it sorted out and something else happens.

Recently, I have experienced a unique occurrence. Once at anchor, I begin to settle-in and bring the shot to order. My back is loaded up and my hand is very snug around my Insatiable. At this point I drain my bow-arm of any tension so to avoid adding torque to the shot. As I do this the bow fires. It’s kind of cool actually and happens when I am concentrating on aiming. The results are a very accurate shot.

So now I come to anchor and as I am aiming, I slowly let the tension drain from my bow-arm and nail the shot.

Anyone else experience this or am I just the strange duck around here?

ox


:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,859 Posts
Yes, I had a very good day at our state outdoor this year doing that. Only problem was, the second day. With pressure, this method becomes difficult to duplicate and I found that an honest pull through the shot holds up better under stress.
Thats me anyway.

:)

Sean

PS, I am using an Atension II
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
614 Posts
oxford I will tell you that the bow arm is a archers biggest problem. I know that if you can hold it still you can get away with a very pore shoot. I had a old friend that was a great shoot tell me if you hold on the spot you have to due a lot to get the arrow to hit out of the spot. The bow arm can get it off the spot so easy and you won't even know it. Hope that you have got it undercontrol because it can be tuff on you. If You due a little blank bale shooting this is a great help, shooting with one of carters backtention releases can help to. Best of luck if I can help lete me know.

Reo Wilde
 

·
Archery Coach
Joined
·
23,291 Posts
Good point REO!. Rick Mckinney shot by pushing through the clicker rather than pulling it. Darrell used to say that if Rick had to hold his bow arm still he wouldn't have broken 1200! He was able to "goose" arrows into the gold which I guess means that in the wind, as he released he could push his bow arm back into the gold.

I agree that the bow arm is often the most important though many coaches spend so much time with the draw hand and the release
 

·
Occam's Razor
Joined
·
8,322 Posts
Oxford said:


Anyone else experience this or am I just the strange duck around here?
:cool:
Well, duh........:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,880 Posts
Reo said:
oxford I will tell you that the bow arm is a archers biggest problem. I know that if you can hold it still you can get away with a very pore shoot. I had a old friend that was a great shoot tell me if you hold on the spot you have to due a lot to get the arrow to hit out of the spot. The bow arm can get it off the spot so easy and you won't even know it. Hope that you have got it undercontrol because it can be tuff on you. If You due a little blank bale shooting this is a great help, shooting with one of carters backtention releases can help to. Best of luck if I can help lete me know.

Reo Wilde
I repect the position you hold as an archer with world titles.

But I have to disagree with the bow arm being an archers biggest problem. If trained properly, the bow arm can be an archers biggest asset. If the bow arm and hand are working as a cohesive unit then 1/2 of your form situation is taken care of.

Bow arm movement should come in the form of a stretch that transfers through the body and out of the bow hand or bowhand thumb to be more exact. The stretch is directed not so much at the position of the sight on the target but the path that the arrow is taking to the target. This is why every Korean archers follow through finishes far and up through the line of force to the target, rather then fading to the right or left or dropping downward.

The line of force being the path in which the arrow is taking. I realise maybe I might sound like some nobody running off my mouth. But I have one of the best coaches in canada and he learned from J A Morin, who was taught his program from Park, Kyung Rae. Also talked about in a 1995 issue of US Archery Magazine.:)

It's fine it you think Im nuts.;) I believe in my coach that a well trained bow arm is a blessing that should be sought after and will continue to train and shoot believeing it.

Ox, if you can train your bow arm to work for you instead of thinking it will work against you then you are ahead of the game in my eyes.

Good luck with your endeavours.
Dylan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,807 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
thanks sean, jim reo and dylan.

i'm not sure how long it will work or as sean mentioned, how long it will work under pressure. it's kinda new and you know how that goes.

what is happening is that by relaxing the bow arm it also relaxes that side of my back and the tension drains from there as well. That allows my release hand side of my back to move farther over toward the center of my back since it is still under tension. that movement fires the bow. it's a really subtle and gradual movement. very smooth.

the beauty of it, is that my bow arm is very relaxed and torque free when the arrow fires. in the carter video, Cousins mentioned that the front half of his body (bow side) is dead (not sure of exact term). That comment is what led to my current form thing.

try coming to draw and deaden (relaxing) your bow arm some and see what happens. this may not work with lower let-off bows (im at 75%) and i bet would never work with a sprial cam LOL. collapsing might happen. but it's fun to mess with.

thanks again for your comments.

ox
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
OX, it does not work with 02 command+ cams either! My last string was too short, and when I would try to settle in....The damn cable guard about whacked me a few times.:eek: Well to make it worse, I got used to keeping it tense. Now I got the string figured out I have a hard time settling in.:confused: I can't totally "deaden" my bow arm either though, at 65%. Is my draw too heavy? Draw length wrong?:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,417 Posts
Oxford said:
My back is loaded up and my hand is very snug around my Insatiable. At this point I drain my bow-arm of any tension so to avoid adding torque to the shot. As I do this the bow fires.
Why does it fire? If you look at yourself on video tape, can you figure out what is going on?

kgk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,417 Posts
MerlinApexDylan said:
The stretch is directed not so much at the position of the sight on the target but the path that the arrow is taking to the target. This is why every Korean archers follow through finishes far and up through the line of force to the target, rather then fading to the right or left or dropping downward.
Say, how close does your string come to your bow shoulder, when viewed from above?

Where do you put the "string blur" on your riser?

kgk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,807 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
oh well

well it's not working now. i just spent two hours messing with it and found that the bow would fire at various degrees of bow arm relaxation. i was spraying let misses all night, while holding dead center on the X.

i guess that tension in your bow arm has a purpose and doesn't like to be altered once set in place. if you can time the firing with a certain narrow relaxation zone, you might have something. and that something would be one hell of a complicated shot. take that to the line at Vegas and watch what happens...YIKES!!!

oh well...:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,158 Posts
I agree with Reo in that the BOW ARM is most shooters' major problem and will add that most shooters also don't even know that the bow arm is what is robbing them!

I was told many years ago, by none other than Dean Pridgen, when I was shooting left handed that if I would quit PUSHING with the bow arm I would shoot a lot better. I spent some time learning that, was shooting better for a while, and then what happened was I ended up collapsing with the bow arm and was spraying lefts and rights like there was no tomorrow.

In speaking with him again the following year, he told me that since I was having so much difficulty and was so strong on my left side, I should consider switching over. His biggest point was that eye dominance really didn't amount to that much, but having a SOLID BOW ARM was critical to any success. He told me he felt that the strongest arm should be the bow arm and that I would shoot much better right handed. I took his advice.

I had watched Dean shoot a lot, and had noticed that the bow hardly even moved upon the launch of the shot and that it did NOT go left or right upon follow thru, but went at the line of flight of the arrow. On a bad shot, you might see the top limb kick to the left or the right, but that was all.

I switched to right handed - the bow arm became my strongest arm, and I shot my personal best international round 13 days later, and my first 60X 300 blue face about 2 months later. I had nearly 12 years of shooting scores that I never even approached when I was shooting left handed. My lowest scores right handed exceeded my best scores that I had ever shot left handed.

The best part of this, is that by having the bow arm my strongest arm and working to keep that arm as still as possible throughout the shot and follow thru, I was seeing my arrows go where I was looking the majority of the time. I was able to call shots at 70 or 80 yards while the arrow was on the way to the target.

Nothing lasts forever, and once my health turned, things went downhill - but it was because of a combination of things, not bad advice from Dean or anyone else.

You have to be careful with this bow arm, strong arm thingy, however - because if you start pushing too hard with the bow arm, then you will NOT pull, and you will shake like the major earthquake that hit Japan yesterday!!

FOR ME, using the bow arm as a solid platform and trying to minimize the bow arm movement away from the line of flight was the best thing that ever happened - but FOR ME it took a switchover to get the job done.

Many folks shoot a lot better than I do and they have the down and left movement of the bow and bow arm upon the follow thru. Lots have little to no bowarm movement. But it still comes down to the people with the most solid bow arm situation are the ones winning the tournaments.]

Dean told me that most people are working on the wrong end of the triangle - they work solely upon back tension, when their BOW ARM is the major problem.

Think about it.

field14:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
i've noticed somewhat the same thing. i know that when i can't/don't relax my bow arm to the point of that "dead" feeling, as dc says, i cannot get my release phase to start, no matter what i do short of ripping the release off the string,,,,and we all know where that arrow is going..... when i remember to fully relax my bow arm/hand the shot goes off with the feeling of "doing absolutely nothing but look at the x to fire the bow". i have been paying particular attention to this and tracking it closley and it is easily my biggest problem also. i found that i will "falsely" think that my bow arm is relaxed when actually everything feels ok except my fingers will be locked in a curve, obviously not relaxed at all. the result will be a concious manipulation of the release,a low left line cutting bullseye, and mental scoulding that usually asks" why didn't you let down, you idiot". the other nite i shoot a 52 x game my personal best. four of the targets had typicaly a blown out x ring with misses just out. the fifth, the lower left had holes all over the place. it was also the target i had the most hand tension problems with. there is definately a connection between target position/alignment and hand tension for me. during leagues i also notice that this problem moves around from bullseye to bullseye from day to day and i will know which of the five bulseyes is going to be the culprit for today after about 2 ends.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,880 Posts
kgk said:
Say, how close does your string come to your bow shoulder, when viewed from above?

Where do you put the "string blur" on your riser?

kgk
String allignment for me is over the center of the aperature which usually lines up fairly close with the center of the riser.

My string is very close to my bow shoulder, but enough room for clearance when I release.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top