string and cable materals
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oscag,
I sent you a PM.
Dick
I sent you a PM.
Dick
yep, prostrings has great prices, great quality , and
Shel is a very nice guy to deal with.. he really goes
all out for the customer.. his turnaround time is
terrific also... the only downside right now is he
is limited in his material offering.. he only works
with 8125 and I believe a little d75 right now..
If you want 452 cables, you're out of luck right now.
That will probably change in the near future and his
quality is on par with wc imho....
Shel is a very nice guy to deal with.. he really goes
all out for the customer.. his turnaround time is
terrific also... the only downside right now is he
is limited in his material offering.. he only works
with 8125 and I believe a little d75 right now..
If you want 452 cables, you're out of luck right now.
That will probably change in the near future and his
quality is on par with wc imho....
oscag, again, if u want 450+ or 452 there is not reason
to have them prestretched.. this blend does not
stretch or creep.. it's just a little slower string than the
8125(that needs to be pre stretched, but is a great
string).. the 8125 is a pure dyneema and will be
more durable(maybe a little) than the blended 450,452
series but will not be as stable(stretches very slightly).
It is also softer on your bow.. I personally would never
put the 450 series of strings on a recurve because
of this..I'd go with dynaflight 97 or 8125(which is 97 with
half sizes)..
45o,452 both have a 33% blend content(vectran/spectra)
with their dyneema.. they are great strings just a little
slower(4-6fps) than 8125... 8125 is a pure dyneema..
So for compounds, do you want the most stable
string(450 series), or one that is softer on the equipment
and a few fps faster(8125).. that's really the bottom line.
Ultracam has a higher blend content and less dyneema
than the bcy materials.
It's a good string (certainly stable) but harsher on
the equipment and has durability issues.. the more blend
you go, the stiffer the string and actually less durable
it is...I know I'll get a lot of naysayers on this one.
If you don't mind shooting your bow for 100- 150 shots
and resetting your string (maybe 4-5 twists) to settle it
in, you'll have a great string with 8125 and it will be the
most forgiving on the equipment... and the fastest.
I really do like the 450 materials for cables since it
has just about zero stretch/creep but I like softer
shooting strings(8125).. hope this helps...
to have them prestretched.. this blend does not
stretch or creep.. it's just a little slower string than the
8125(that needs to be pre stretched, but is a great
string).. the 8125 is a pure dyneema and will be
more durable(maybe a little) than the blended 450,452
series but will not be as stable(stretches very slightly).
It is also softer on your bow.. I personally would never
put the 450 series of strings on a recurve because
of this..I'd go with dynaflight 97 or 8125(which is 97 with
half sizes)..
45o,452 both have a 33% blend content(vectran/spectra)
with their dyneema.. they are great strings just a little
slower(4-6fps) than 8125... 8125 is a pure dyneema..
So for compounds, do you want the most stable
string(450 series), or one that is softer on the equipment
and a few fps faster(8125).. that's really the bottom line.
Ultracam has a higher blend content and less dyneema
than the bcy materials.
It's a good string (certainly stable) but harsher on
the equipment and has durability issues.. the more blend
you go, the stiffer the string and actually less durable
it is...I know I'll get a lot of naysayers on this one.
If you don't mind shooting your bow for 100- 150 shots
and resetting your string (maybe 4-5 twists) to settle it
in, you'll have a great string with 8125 and it will be the
most forgiving on the equipment... and the fastest.
I really do like the 450 materials for cables since it
has just about zero stretch/creep but I like softer
shooting strings(8125).. hope this helps...
Ultracam may be less durable, but unless your shooting many tens of thousands of shots before changing out strings, you will probably never experience it. It stretches less than any other string material, and does not fuzz as easily as the other materials. It makes a great string if you absolutely don't want it to stretch.
Pre-stretching a string will shorten the break-in period. When I build a string, I stretch it with about 250-300 lbs of pressure. It takes about 5-10 shots to set the string and from that point on, it won't creep or stretch even 1/8". If you don't pre-stretch, then expect a longer break-in period (maybe a couple hundred shots), before you can tune your set-up. If it's properly built, it won't creep. If it's not constructed in the right way, even the best of string materials, will continue to creep and cause ongoing problems with your bow's tune.
Pre-stretching a string will shorten the break-in period. When I build a string, I stretch it with about 250-300 lbs of pressure. It takes about 5-10 shots to set the string and from that point on, it won't creep or stretch even 1/8". If you don't pre-stretch, then expect a longer break-in period (maybe a couple hundred shots), before you can tune your set-up. If it's properly built, it won't creep. If it's not constructed in the right way, even the best of string materials, will continue to creep and cause ongoing problems with your bow's tune.
8125 will creep slightly during break in so your assumption
that if it's built properly it won't creep I respectfully disagree
with.. ONce is settles in all u have to do is a few twists
on the string and you'll be fine(after 100-200 shots)..
Also, you can get away with no pre stretching the blended
materials(452,ultracam) because they have almost zero
stretch with this material.. this is the only advantage they
have over 8125, and it's a slight one imho...but they
do have disadvantages as string material(previously
discussed).
Ultracam will not fuzz much , but neither does 452 any longer.
up until last year, the 450 series of blended material
would not take to the wax the manufacturers were using
for the material.. they have since fixed this problem and
you won't experience any more drying of the string than
other brands on the newer batches of material.. all will
dry out and fuzz over time.. ultracam would do this less
before the 450+ wax problem was corrected.
Now, it's not an issue....just slightly wax your string
every 1000 shots or so and you should have no problem
getting 3000-4000 shots before needing to change.. I change
every year to be safe...just don't overwax your strings,
most folks have a tendency to do this..
that if it's built properly it won't creep I respectfully disagree
with.. ONce is settles in all u have to do is a few twists
on the string and you'll be fine(after 100-200 shots)..
Also, you can get away with no pre stretching the blended
materials(452,ultracam) because they have almost zero
stretch with this material.. this is the only advantage they
have over 8125, and it's a slight one imho...but they
do have disadvantages as string material(previously
discussed).
Ultracam will not fuzz much , but neither does 452 any longer.
up until last year, the 450 series of blended material
would not take to the wax the manufacturers were using
for the material.. they have since fixed this problem and
you won't experience any more drying of the string than
other brands on the newer batches of material.. all will
dry out and fuzz over time.. ultracam would do this less
before the 450+ wax problem was corrected.
Now, it's not an issue....just slightly wax your string
every 1000 shots or so and you should have no problem
getting 3000-4000 shots before needing to change.. I change
every year to be safe...just don't overwax your strings,
most folks have a tendency to do this..
Speed is never an issue with me, not on today's bows. I see people do all kinds of things to gain 5 fps, and at what cost? There are always tradeoffs. For me, the need for a few fps will never cause me to make a decision that will cost me in other areas I deem more important. That said, there's nothing terrible about any string material on today's market. Choose whatever tickles your fancy and realize there ain't much difference between your choice and whatever the other guy is using. The greatest differences in string quality will come from the varying construction techniques, not the material used.
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2,767 Posts
Changing strings at 3000 shots??
justshoot,
You say you change your string every 3000-4000 shots? Are you serious? That would mean changing every month or so for a guy like Dave Cousins. Dave's probably shot over 75,000 shots on the string he's using now. At one time I used to shoot over 50,000 shots a year. I do agree that it's a good idea to change every year, but not if you're only shooting 3000 shots. Heck, after 3000, it's just getting broken in. Ultracam may be few fps slower than 8125, but it is quieter and quite troublefree.
justshoot,
You say you change your string every 3000-4000 shots? Are you serious? That would mean changing every month or so for a guy like Dave Cousins. Dave's probably shot over 75,000 shots on the string he's using now. At one time I used to shoot over 50,000 shots a year. I do agree that it's a good idea to change every year, but not if you're only shooting 3000 shots. Heck, after 3000, it's just getting broken in. Ultracam may be few fps slower than 8125, but it is quieter and quite troublefree.
I shoot about 4000 shots per year on average, and I change
after each archery season just as a safeguard.. I realize I
could easily shoot for 3-4 years with one string, I just like
being safe.. some bow manufacturers recommend changing
with less shots even.. but, hey whatever works for you is
what you should do.. I'm not here to get into an argument
with you(which u seem to be trying to do), I was merely
trying to answer a few questions a previous gentleman
had..
Just curious though, how do u know how often Dave Cousins
changes strings.. what you're saying is even if he shot
100 arrows every single day of the year, he'd still only
change after 2 -2 1/2 years.. (75,000 shots)... I certainly
wouldn't keep a string or cables on that long... my cables
would surely be fried way before then....but if that's what
works for Dave Cousins (or anyone for that matter), that
is certainly their perogative to do... you seem to be having
a hard time accepting a differing opinion than yours.. not
everyone in life is going to agree with you on all issues..
if that offends you I am sorry, but that's the way it really
is... you have a good day sir...
after each archery season just as a safeguard.. I realize I
could easily shoot for 3-4 years with one string, I just like
being safe.. some bow manufacturers recommend changing
with less shots even.. but, hey whatever works for you is
what you should do.. I'm not here to get into an argument
with you(which u seem to be trying to do), I was merely
trying to answer a few questions a previous gentleman
had..
Just curious though, how do u know how often Dave Cousins
changes strings.. what you're saying is even if he shot
100 arrows every single day of the year, he'd still only
change after 2 -2 1/2 years.. (75,000 shots)... I certainly
wouldn't keep a string or cables on that long... my cables
would surely be fried way before then....but if that's what
works for Dave Cousins (or anyone for that matter), that
is certainly their perogative to do... you seem to be having
a hard time accepting a differing opinion than yours.. not
everyone in life is going to agree with you on all issues..
if that offends you I am sorry, but that's the way it really
is... you have a good day sir...
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2,767 Posts
Why so sensitive.
just shoot,
Not trying to argue, just surprised that you recommend changing a bowstring after so few shots, that's all. Better to be safe than sorry, I guess. I know that Dave has had the same string on his bow for several years because he told me so. I know Dave shoots every single day he can, and the numbers add up quick. Obviously there are other factors involved too, like bow poundage, strand count and environment. Even a new string can get pretty beat up in the woods. All in all I pretty much agreed with what you were saying except for changing after so few shots. Have a great day!
just shoot,
Not trying to argue, just surprised that you recommend changing a bowstring after so few shots, that's all. Better to be safe than sorry, I guess. I know that Dave has had the same string on his bow for several years because he told me so. I know Dave shoots every single day he can, and the numbers add up quick. Obviously there are other factors involved too, like bow poundage, strand count and environment. Even a new string can get pretty beat up in the woods. All in all I pretty much agreed with what you were saying except for changing after so few shots. Have a great day!
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23,316 Posts
Jim-I remember gt saying that Rick Mckinney had a fastflite string that lasted over 100,000 shots and I believe this to be true because I had one that lasted two years on a recurve that I shot at least 50,000 times. However, I note that famous coach and technical expert Vittorio Frangilli mentioned that 5-6 thousand shots a string was about right for optimum performace for recurve shooters. I always tell customers what I told them when I was a squash pro-if you shoot (play) once a week-change your string once a year, 5 times a week, Five times a year. That seems to be consistent what others have said too.
I also understand that if you have confidence in a particular set up you don't want to change anything unless necessary. I have 4 recurve bows I rotate depending on the season and the event-each get about 5,000-8,000 shots a year and usually a new string just once a year.
I also understand that if you have confidence in a particular set up you don't want to change anything unless necessary. I have 4 recurve bows I rotate depending on the season and the event-each get about 5,000-8,000 shots a year and usually a new string just once a year.
Joined
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2,767 Posts
Jim C.,
Do you feel that a recurve string takes more abuse than a compound string? I never really gave it much consideration. I know I've owned dacron strings that had well over 75,000 shots. I also had fast flite strings last well over 50,000. I believe that a string is only as good as the end servings. String loops seem to be much easier on a string also because the angle is not as acute. What do you think?
Do you feel that a recurve string takes more abuse than a compound string? I never really gave it much consideration. I know I've owned dacron strings that had well over 75,000 shots. I also had fast flite strings last well over 50,000. I believe that a string is only as good as the end servings. String loops seem to be much easier on a string also because the angle is not as acute. What do you think?
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23,316 Posts
Jim-that is a good question. Some cams rip strings up and if you use a caliper release on a string without a loop, that wears them out more. I had a boy (A martin shooter btw) who used to go through that S4 stuff like crazy on his two scepter two's-he blew one at nationals in 99 but had a backup-he shot a stan with a rope and that sawed right through the servings. On the other hand, I think a loop is easier on a string then a finger release-less ocillation.
I don't know the answer to this. I suspect that stringing a recurve bow and unstringing it is hard on a string and that doesn't happen with compounds. When I used to use wood racquets, re-stringing them is when they usually failed due to the change in tension.
Maybe gt will pop in on this one since he is really up on this sort of stuff.
I tie my own strings and its not much effort to get a string that performs the same.
I don't know the answer to this. I suspect that stringing a recurve bow and unstringing it is hard on a string and that doesn't happen with compounds. When I used to use wood racquets, re-stringing them is when they usually failed due to the change in tension.
Maybe gt will pop in on this one since he is really up on this sort of stuff.
I tie my own strings and its not much effort to get a string that performs the same.
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