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Is there a way to diagnose string torque at anchor or release? I have been bare shaft tuning my arrows and have it narrowed down so that some arrows are straight, some nock left, some nock right. I think that is about as good as I can get with my form. Wondering if I can use bare shafts to perfect form or at least to get better at bare shaft tuning.

On my release I think my hand is aligned with the bow but is difficult to look and check while shooting. I shoot 3 under and release with right hand... wondering if I torque string so bottom finger angled torwards my face will that show up as weak or stiff spine. Just curious if I see that I can better understand what I am doing wrong.

KD
 

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KD -

If your hand is relaxed, except for the two forearm muscles creating the hook, then string torque is virtually impossible.
There could be a lot of other things going on, and it's kinda hard to say without seeing you.

Viper1 out.
 

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Take a piece of string the diameter of a bow string. Draw it back with your tab and the two free ends hanging in you bow hand. At the bow hand make an overhand knot. Now you have a loop twice the length of your full draw. Draw it back to full draw and look down. Is the string coming off your ring finger in the same plane as the string coming off your forefinger? No. YOur torqueing the string.

Bowmania
 

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some arrows are straight, some nock left, some nock right.
Do they nock left but hit to the right of point of aim (weak spine)? Same for nock right, should be nock right but hitting left of aim (over spined). Its not enough to have just nock left/right on its own, that can be just how the target holds onto the arrow.

Also are your nocks real tight on the string?
 

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Okay, not to drag the OP's post off in the bushes, but a related question. From Viper's and Bowmania's responses it sounds like string torque could be defined as a tendency to consciously or unconsciously rotate the string hand at full draw. I agree that this would be difficult to do to any degree under the full weight of the limbs. I could see where it might induce a less than smooth release (although look at the angle of Ben Roger's string hand some time). My question is what do you call it when you think due to your unique physique (shoulder width, arm length, facial geometry, etc) that you may be anchoring the sting outside the centerline of riser/limb/shaft? Would the limb travel "re-center" the string after release enough to make this a moot point?
 

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how could you draw the string outside of the centerline if your bow is not crooked and you are not holding the grip? The bow will always rotate slightly in your palm so that the string is in the centerline when drawn. You would have to apply some torquing force with your bowhand to get it out of line
 

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old -

It would still be considered torque, and almost impossible unless you are VERY strong or the bow is VERY weak.
If you think about the geometry of what you described, you'll see why.

Viper1 out.
 

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About 3 years ago I worked to get rid of my string torque all winter. I'd shoot at the BB for a week and then check torque with the 'string bow' loop. After a month I was really good. Since it was winter I worked another month at the BB.

Spring hit and my torque was gone. By May it was back. I'm betting everyone torques to some degree. Right now, twist your hand below your wrist with you bow hand and fingers limp. Then twist with fingers in the string position, you feel the difference in tension and degree of rotation.

Bowmania
 

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My single way to reduce to minimum (not eliminate) the string torque was to have the middle finger charged the most (around 70%) and the rest of the two are interfering as less as possible with the string (index charged 10% and ring finger around 20%).I shoot split fingers. But I would not recommend this if you don't have strong fingers - the stress on the middle finger can be way too much - even though is becoming similar with one finger on the string principle used by thumb ring release.
3 under is easier to manage - get a full tab with divider and before putting the string on the tab squeeze softly the divider between index and midfle finger. Will make the fingers to stay on same plane. Usually the ring finger follows and gives less torque than the two stronger ones.
 

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Is there a way to diagnose string torque at anchor or release? I have been bare shaft tuning my arrows and have it narrowed down so that some arrows are straight, some nock left, some nock right. I think that is about as good as I can get with my form. Wondering if I can use bare shafts to perfect form or at least to get better at bare shaft tuning.

On my release I think my hand is aligned with the bow but is difficult to look and check while shooting. I shoot 3 under and release with right hand... wondering if I torque string so bottom finger angled torwards my face will that show up as weak or stiff spine. Just curious if I see that I can better understand what I am doing wrong.

KD
How do you know string torque is causing the nock left/right issue?

In my opinion it's more likely to be inconsistencies in the target medium or just the fact that bare shafts are sensitive and you are close enough to "perfect" that the little human errors we all have are equally distributed between stiff and weak.

On your tuning method, are you shooting groups of bare shafts and fletched?

Are you shooting more than one bare shaft? I think three bare and three fletched shot at the same target give the most reliable results.

How far away from the target are you? Consider 20 yards a minimum for a decent tune.

If your bare shafts and fletched are grouping together at 25 yards or so I wouldn't worry about the attitude of the bare shafts, minor nock right or left isn't a big deal as long as bare and fletched group together. You could keep up the tuning at longer range, the physics behind the flight of a bare shaft the dictate that the further you are from he target, and bare and fletched are grouping together, the straighter the bare shafts will be in the target (assuming you have a perfectly homogenous target, most aren't).

If you are having issues with torque, I'd look at your grip as the more likely spot than your string hand.
 

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Yes, Easy hit it I think. IF the bow hand is relaxed, the bow will follow the string and try to align with the string. Only if you have a vice grip on the bow will you be able to twist the string. So IF you twist the string in one direction, you need to physically twist the bow in the opposite direction. The bow will follow the string. Relaxed string hand/wrist/arm AND relaxed bow hand grip will allow the string and bow to align well. String hand twisting one way and bow hand twisting the other way will always give inconsistent arrows.

Arne
 

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I think I probably asked my question poorly. What I'm getting at I think is often discussed related to lateral limb stability. I believe vertical limb stability is defined as the resistance of tip travel in trying to move the string up and down at brace. Lateral would be tip movement while move the string side to side. Long bow limbs have a narrow limb profile all the way to the tips and I would think they might be prone to vertical, but not so much lateral instability. Recurve limbs with their flat profile, I'm not so sure wouldn't be more prone to either? You can move the string at the nock point from side to side at brace and watch the limb tips twist slightly on some recurves. Maybe I'm just over thinking this whole thing.
 

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Okay, not to drag the OP's post off in the bushes, but a related question. From Viper's and Bowmania's responses it sounds like string torque could be defined as a tendency to consciously or unconsciously rotate the string hand at full draw. I agree that this would be difficult to do to any degree under the full weight of the limbs. I could see where it might induce a less than smooth release (although look at the angle of Ben Roger's string hand some time). My question is what do you call it when you think due to your unique physique (shoulder width, arm length, facial geometry, etc) that you may be anchoring the sting outside the centerline of riser/limb/shaft? Would the limb travel "re-center" the string after release enough to make this a moot point?
I think I probably asked my question poorly. What I'm getting at I think is often discussed related to lateral limb stability. I believe vertical limb stability is defined as the resistance of tip travel in trying to move the string up and down at brace. Lateral would be tip movement while move the string side to side. Long bow limbs have a narrow limb profile all the way to the tips and I would think they might be prone to vertical, but not so much lateral instability. Recurve limbs with their flat profile, I'm not so sure wouldn't be more prone to either? You can move the string at the nock point from side to side at brace and watch the limb tips twist slightly on some recurves. Maybe I'm just over thinking this whole thing.
No, I think you are right, if I am reading your post correctly. The displacement of the string, or in particular the nocking point, laterally displaced from neutral (inline with the center of the riser), is usually caused by pressure between your bow hand and the grip. Like Viper and Moebow said, with a relaxed grip the bow will turn slightly in your hand and keep everything in line as you draw the bow, no matter where you draw it too.

If you hold the grip tightly or in some other way keep the bow from turning in your hand, then the limb tips can move as you describe. Take a good grip on your sting (you will not release it), come to full draw and watch the limb tips as you purposely twist the grip back and forth with your bow hand.
 

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To answer your original question..... yes there is a simple way to see if you are applying torque to the bow. Take an arrow shaft and tape it to the flat portion of the riser so it points forward similar to a stabilizer bar. Watch what happens after you release an arrow. The bow should jump forward and the arrow shaft should move roughly forward. If it jumps to one side or the other, that would indicate you are applying torque to the bow. You might need to change your hand position on the grip, use a wrist or finger sling with a loose grip on the bow, and/or reshape the grip.
 

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I?m fairly new to the traditional archery seen. The one thing that made my arrows do exactly what yours is doing is improper draw length. I put a clicker on the bow and it helped out a lot. Hope this helps.

Dan
 
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