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Discussion Starter #1
-First of all, sorry for the super long post-

Ive done some searches on AT and read the threads about this, and im well aware of what TP is, and various cures which i have done before, and worked rather well. What i normally will do, and i did this to cure the type of TP where i would punch my thumb release before it got on the dot, is stand close to the target, hold on a dot, not shoot, and come on and off of htat dot. I solved the problem of being able to hold my pin on a dot a long time ago, and almost never have that problem. Maybe once or twice since but its gone away very quickly. However...i was still having trouble punching the trigger. So when we were in Nelsonville for the last Triple Crown, i bought a BT gold release from TRUball. I though everything was absolutely cured. After a month or two i was grouping at 50, and had recently gotten to grouping at 60. All was well, and i had never enjoyed shooting so much in my life. Now...this has been happening for a few weeks now, and i only just realized what was happening. What im currently doing is rolling the hinge off the cam before i reach the clicker, or the end of the cam. So what im saying is that i am prematurely jerking the BT release off the string. What i feel is happening, is that my arms are locking up. I feel like i dont want to pull the bow at all anymore to initiate the back tension. Sometimes i get tired of waiting for it, and just say to myself i want to shoot now and rip the release off the cord. Its still fairly accurate, just not the way it shoot be. Im not sure if maybe im afraid of shaking the bow too much to pull into the release, or im just too lazy to pull through. Could strings have stretched and the DL be too long to fully do things right? Keep in mind i have the cruddy stock black strings and have put them through a hell of shooting.

If anyone has any new ideas, i really do appreciate them, and if its just the same old thing...shoot close to a block, thats ok ill do that. Thanks in advance folks. And i apologize again for the long post.
 

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I understand what you're going though, same thing happened to me.

The one that helped me a lot was the bernie's panic master. With this training aid I was able to focus on what I have to do and not worry about shot placement. (a simple string with the right length should do the trick if the panic master is not available). The hardest thing to learn is to draw smooth without jerking the release.
Blank bale shooting...
Another thing that you might check is that you may have adjusted your release too slow, hence you have to pull way back instead of the regular draw position needed.
Draw length should also be checked, it may be a little long.
Draw weight might be too heavy.

Hope at least one of these helps.
 

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Sounds to me that your brain has figured out a way to punch the release."Why sould I wait for this thing to go off, there's the bull lets get it done". Dont know the answer. Maybe get close again and work on making yourself fire it the right way.Shooting distance seems to bring this on in me.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks jing ill look that up.
And its just the same with me Von. Its easy to do it when your very close, but step back to even 20 (right now) and its a nightmare.

Thanks guys for the time.
 

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I personally shoot without the clicker as this is just a training aid and with the release set fine, ensure you have enough travel in your scaps at anchor to allow for the amount of rotation required to activate the release. With the back of your hand on the same plain as your fore arm and upper arm induce a rotational movement by contracting your scapulars and expanding your chest this will give you rotation pivoting around the spine. Using this method you do not induce any extra draw weight hence a smoother release, less loading of muscles, lower fatigue levels and the hinge release will work as a hinge. Many will disagree with this but it has worked fine for me and others I have trained.
Cheers:)
Peter
 

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Trying to be too precise in aiming is IMO the biggest mistake when shooting any release just let the pin float and flow through the process whether it's commanding the trigger or hand rotation through back tension.Also don't be afraid to get aggressive with the hinge release,if it's taking too long for the shot to go off your form will break down and your focus will drift,hook your fingers around the release go to the click and pull through solidly.I put a little more pressure on the outside fingers (middle and,or ring finger)to increase the rotation if I'm having a hard time getting the release in gear.IMO as long as your back is controlling the shot a little extra finger pressure will not spoil the shot,you don't want tension in the release hand just use the fingers as a hook and keep the back of the hand and wrist relaxed and pull through the shot.If your hand is giving in as you apply back tension that's a form of target panic,you don't want to command the release with your hand you just want a solid hook so the back can rotate the hand without working too hard and breaking down the shot sequence.
 

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Stop using the clicker and add travel to your hinge release. Then concentrate on aiming and let the shot happen. If it isn't happening within your shot window, you should be letting down. That is the key, maintain complete control of the shot. Don't let that bad arrow go. Archery is all about discipline.
 

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I agree. Get rid of the clicker as (IMHO) it is only adding to your problem. My third finger back tension trigger is the only one I can shoot without eventual "lockup" (as I call it) problems. The reason for this I think is that I slowly roll my whole hand around without consciously pulling the third finger trigger lever. Try a trigger that does not use your thumb or index finger for activiating the shot. And if you are not positive with the shot......:-(
 

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Archery is a Passion...
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Punching...

Just a quick thought...

You might be right about something changing and now your draw length is just a bit too long?

Someone I know said that even a minor change in draw length dramatically affected his shooting. So double check, and maybe shorten your draw length just to see how it feels.

You might want to get an old arrow that you can paint a mark where the arrow touches your rest when you get the draw length perfected. Then set it aside and use as a calibration for your draw length from time to time.

I've also heard of people who spend a certain amount of time each week shooting "blind-bail".

My brother is continually fighting the same thing and he has found that one specific release makes him concentrate harder and he uses it as a tune-up release, then goes back to his normal release when actually shooting or hunting. This may not work for you, but sometimes doing something different will keep you concentrating.

When I played serious baseball, I would occassionally bat left handed. It seemed that it made me concentrate on the basics and then I had better form when going back to right handed...

hope this helps.

thenson
 

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Sounds silly, and these are opinions given freely, so do with them as you will

1. get rid of clicker as said.

2. Exercise and build endurance and strength so that you do not have the urge to let fly faster… You can be real strong, but in the wrong muscles… you start to wobble.. and then the urge to snap shoot starts.. (This is my issue.. physical training is starting to help)

3. Lower bow weight if really needed.. see above

4. Try practicing let downs… If it does not feel right, let down and start over thing… Then do it. Better to start over than force a shot... (I need to get better at this)

5. Sounds REAL silly but, the mind is a very powerful tool… some can stop cuts from bleeding... etc.. Meditate… Visualize what you will do and what you will not do… for several minutes before you start a shooting session. Once a mistake is made.. take a few seconds to visualize what was wrong and how to correct.. (Mental training)

6. Most importantly… look up the threads from Griv and others… Also see Bernies books, etc… and practice the blank bale….. short, eyes closed… then open no target, etc…. backing up... LONG, tough, but possibly the only way to really get rid of it… it has to come as second nature. (Mental and physical training)

7. finally, set up a practice string/loop, and practice your release every change you get.. the experts I am told do this.. Make string loop about as long as draw, then shoot as you would with bow… until it feels smooth, natural, and automatic…

Look at it this way.. you need to train both physically and mentally to do the sequence right… Just like any other sport. AND I need to do this advice as well…
 

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A lot of good ideas here. I'll throw my 2 cents in. To me it sounds like you are tensing your way through the shot. Instead of staying relaxed in your shoulders and being fluid with your rotation, I think you are flexing your shoulders hindering your shot execution. You can blind bale and shoot at 10 yards all you want but if you are not executing the shot correctly all you are doing is reinforcing bad form.

Next time you are shooting try to pay attention to the feeling you are getting in your back. You should feel like your shoulders are relaxing and "falling down". Your chest should feel like it is expanding. The shot should feel like you are stretching, not tensing. Chances are you are building tension in your shoulders thinking that you are pulling the bow apart. You'll swear up and down that you are pushing and pulling the heck out of the bow when in fact you aren't moving one bit.

Once you build the tension in your shoulders you start thinking the shot should have gone off by now. Or You have built so much pressure that you no longer have the ability to rotate the release by any other means than with your fingers. Do a little experiment. Think about shooting an arrow. Imagine yourself loading the arrow in the bow and hooking your release. Then draw the bow and aim. Then start your shot routine. Now before you mentally shoot your arrow, how do your shoulders feel? Can you relax them, can they fall?

It is hard to say for sure what your problem is without seeing you shoot. But from what you are describing my guess is you are just getting too tense. I've seen a lot of people do this, heck I used to do this. Concentrate on relaxing and staying relaxed through your entire shot, especially in your shoulders.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well sounds like great advice from everyone. Thanks folks.

But about the clicker...

I dont know if maybe im shoving my arm forward when the release lets go, or what, but whenever i try to shoot no clicker, the bow jumps very harshly and my grouping is terrible. Its as if all that tension builds up, and then instead of just releasing, it all explodes at once. But, seeing as how it is the common opinion here, ill work with it more to see if i can get used to it. thanks again.
 

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Back Tension

Set your backtension hinge right where you want it to go off then move it alot heavier. All the big dogs have a lot of travel in there release. Chance BEAUBOUEF( pro shooter) told me at the world champinship in snow shoe that if I shot his release he would bet I wouldn't get it to go off for several trys. Michael BRADEN ( pro shooter) has an 11 pound trigger he shoots. You need to pull hard when you shoot. You need to think aiming and that's it don't think of nothing else. These two guys are real pro's not the ones that shoot for their store and think they are pro's.
A lot of travel trains you to focus on the target not the release. If you draw your bow and think about your release you need to let up and try again. You should never think about your release when your'e shooting, only aiming.

thanks

punchy
2nd indoor world championship 2005- MBO class
4th indoor world championship 2004 MBO class
 

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mbuemi said:
Well sounds like great advice from everyone. Thanks folks.

But about the clicker...

I dont know if maybe im shoving my arm forward when the release lets go, or what, but whenever i try to shoot no clicker, the bow jumps very harshly and my grouping is terrible. Its as if all that tension builds up, and then instead of just releasing, it all explodes at once. But, seeing as how it is the common opinion here, ill work with it more to see if i can get used to it. thanks again.

It sounds like you do not have any controled direction to your push/pull. It seems that you have become neutral in your bow arm. This is either from being too long in DL and you have reached the end of your range of motion, or you have become so tense that you can no longer execute proper back tension.

When I was learning to shoot with a BT release I had the same problem. I had a very explosive shot, total surprise, but no accruacy/ consistancy. Once I began focusing through my shot and pushing my bow arm directly to the target it all began to come together. Your push/pull has to be executed through the entire shot, you can not let yourself stop. I would suggest to you to focus your push to the target and make sure you are not stopping durring your shot cycle.
 
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