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Discussion Starter #1
Just started down the road to shoot this dicipline/style bow.

I set the tiller with the bottom 1/4 inch closer than the top.

Bow is a Hoyt Avalon+ with Genesis Bamboo core limbs at 46 pounds to start.

Nothing on the bow yet, sights, stabs. Just a flipper rest but I will have a magnetic rest on it soon.

Need some guidance here on set up. Bow is very smooth to draw and only a slight vibration on the shoot that feels like it is coming from the bottom. Shooting a 300 gr arrow and getting awesome speed. FF string on the bow.

Thanks in advance

Bob
 

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Your first step should be to search terms like new, newbie, beginner, etc. on this forum. A lot of this info has been discussed already.

From your "getting awesome speed" comment, I'll guess you have shot compound. In recurve, speed really doesn't mean a heck of a lot. Remember, a slow 10 is better than a fast 8 any day. Sure, a faster arrow can shoot a flatter trajectory, but for now, it doesn't mean jack. Especially because you will be shooting indoors for the next 5 months.

Unless you are a gorrilla, or have excellent form from shooting another discipline, 46# limbs are too heavy to learn on. Try something in the 26-28# range on your fingertips.

For sights, can't go wrong with a Shibuya Double Click. For a rest, get a simple magnetic stick on. I have the Cavalier Free-Flyte Elite. Nice rest, but I paid a ton for adjustments I never use. Get a Cavalier Master plunger. Buy a tab for your fingers.

Find a coach or an instructor who can get you started on proper form from day one. You don't want to have to undue what you teach yourself if its wrong.

Most of all, have fun.
 

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Just started down the road to shoot this dicipline/style bow.

I set the tiller with the bottom 1/4 inch closer than the top.

Bow is a Hoyt Avalon+ with Genesis Bamboo core limbs at 46 pounds to start.

Nothing on the bow yet, sights, stabs. Just a flipper rest but I will have a magnetic rest on it soon.

Need some guidance here on set up. Bow is very smooth to draw and only a slight vibration on the shoot that feels like it is coming from the bottom. Shooting a 300 gr arrow and getting awesome speed. FF string on the bow.

Thanks in advance

Bob

Adding up the give and take of tiller setting on Oly/Recurve square tiller wins.
Joe Tapley recently posted the best explanation of tiller setting as it relates to stability of Oly/Recureve. As you might expect nothing is that easy. Tapley/Vittori explain in recent posts the interaction of stabilization (v bars and stab position and weight) on tiller setting.
 

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Bob -

Unless the bow "feels" really awkward while shooting, leave the tiller alone - for now. Typically anything between 0/0 and 1/4" or so lower limb positive (shorter) is fine for most people, Since nocking point placement is a function of tiller (and you), it usually balances out.

You can make this as complicated as you like, and a number of people have, but for most of us, most of the time, it's more of a psychological thing than a functional one.

BTW - as Steve said, you're way over bowed. Lately, if a new (and theoretically serious) stickbow shooter (adult male in decent condition) comes to me for instruction and has or wants a bow over 30# at his draw length, I politely suggest he go elsewhere. It's just not worth my time or his.

Viper1 out.
 

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Genesis 21:20
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Agree on the tiller tips above. Not worth worrying about until you reach the 1200, or maybe even 1250+ level anyway. On the list of "limiting factors" for reaching 1300, tiller isn't even on the first two pages... ;)

My advice - set it to zero (even, both limbs) and forget it.

Regarding overbowing, Viper is (as usual) correct. However, you don't say what you've been shooting prior to the Oly. bow.

My personal experience was coming from a 62# longbow, so even a 50# Oly. bow was pretty do-able for me at the time. Not anymore mind you (I've turned into a wimp and don't shoot bows over about 50# anymore) but at the time, the 12# drop in draw weight was pretty easy for me. It took me longer to get used to the total mass weight of the Oly. bow, as I'd been shooting 1.5 - 2# longbows for 15+ years.

John.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks you all for the tips on tiller. Again it is bare bow and it is more adjustable than the standard recurve so setting in the bow up I understand basics behind it but I was looking to see if tiller had anything to do with the slight vibration.

I will drop the pounds as I check again and the bow is at 40# at 30 inch draw.

I am using a cav tab fitted for me and I will have the better rest soon. I shoot compounds, trads and Xbows and have been doing so for a lot of years.

I will be getting a good coach.

Thank you again

Bob
 

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At some point, down the road, when you want to tune the Avalon plus riser better. You may want to find someone here on the forum, who has a copy of the old Hoyt manual for tuning the Avalon plus. It's fairly easy to tune but it tunes different than the newer risers. The manual is a down loadable PDF file an isn't available from Hoyt anymore. Just a thought. MM1354
 

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At some point, down the road, when you want to tune the Avalon plus riser better. You may want to find someone here on the forum, who has a copy of the old Hoyt manual for tuning the Avalon plus. It's fairly easy to tune but it tunes different than the newer risers. The manual is a down loadable PDF file an isn't available from Hoyt anymore. Just a thought. MM1354
Thank you MM1354 I will do a search on that. It is a bit different and i believe I centered the string well. Just need to get a better rest which will help with tuning also.:darkbeer:
 

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Genesis 21:20
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G.A.,

Something to look for when tuning the riser is whether the string is centered with the PLANE of the riser. I see a lot of folks just starting out who understand that the limbs should be in line with one another, but don't realize they can align both limbs with the plane of the riser. Use a good, straight arrow (preferably 23/64" alum. or carbon shaft) laid flat against a flat portion of the sight window, and see how the edge of the shaft aligns with the string. You can also use this technique to see if your stabilizer is straight or not. Once you determine if your stabilizer is straight, pointing left or pointing right (when compared to the plane of the riser), then you can use the stabilizer as a reference for future alignment if you get new limbs.

I hope that makes sense. This is just something I've run into with a lot of archers, and even some coaches. They tend to get the limbs lined up okay, but don't realize they're not in plane with the riser. Usually results in a bow that's hard to tune, and louder than it should be.

John.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks John, I will look at that on the bow. As you said my first thought was to just line up the limbs tip to tip without looking at the relationship to the riser. Makes sense for balanced setup.:darkbeer:
 

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John what is the indoor equivalent in your opinion to 1200 recurve?

Agree on the tiller tips above. Not worth worrying about until you reach the 1200, or maybe even 1250+ level anyway. On the list of "limiting factors" for reaching 1300, tiller isn't even on the first two pages... ;)

My advice - set it to zero (even, both limbs) and forget it.

Regarding overbowing, Viper is (as usual) correct. However, you don't say what you've been shooting prior to the Oly. bow.

My personal experience was coming from a 62# longbow, so even a 50# Oly. bow was pretty do-able for me at the time. Not anymore mind you (I've turned into a wimp and don't shoot bows over about 50# anymore) but at the time, the 12# drop in draw weight was pretty easy for me. It took me longer to get used to the total mass weight of the Oly. bow, as I'd been shooting 1.5 - 2# longbows for 15+ years.

John.
 

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At some point, down the road, when you want to tune the Avalon plus riser better. You may want to find someone here on the forum, who has a copy of the old Hoyt manual for tuning the Avalon plus. It's fairly easy to tune but it tunes different than the newer risers. The manual is a down loadable PDF file an isn't available from Hoyt anymore. Just a thought. MM1354
You can find it at http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/Hoyt/RecurveManual2000.pdf (good ol' Texas Archery - they seem to have everything). The directions for the Avalon Plus are on pages 13-14.
Good luck.
 

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John what is the indoor equivalent in your opinion to 1200 recurve?
I know that you asked John - but I thought I'd give it a shot (pun intended :wink:. 1200 of 1440 is 83%. So - if my math is correct (math was never my strong subject) 83% of 300 is 249. 83% of 600 is 498. I hope I figured these right - I'm sure you'll let me know if I didn't:embara:
 

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I know that you asked John - but I thought I'd give it a shot (pun intended :wink:. 1200 of 1440 is 83%. So - if my math is correct (math was never my strong subject) 83% of 300 is 249. 83% of 600 is 498. I hope I figured these right - I'm sure you'll let me know if I didn't:embara:
If I'm figuring it right, you might be just a tad low, but not much. Without going through it, at 18M the ten ring is just a bit bigger than a 122 cm at 70M, so you'll have to add just a touch on to that 498. At 90M, you'll have to add even more.
 

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Mathematically that sounds pretty close. But, I don't think it actually figures right. I can consistently shoot in the low 290s on a Vegas round (with a compound, that is). I did my first FITA this summer, and I got a 1216 (or somewhere in that area). So, I think that the two styles of shoots are just too different to really compare that way.
 

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Mathematically that sounds pretty close. But, I don't think it actually figures right. I can consistently shoot in the low 290s on a Vegas round (with a compound, that is). I did my first FITA this summer, and I got a 1216 (or somewhere in that area). So, I think that the two styles of shoots are just too different to really compare that way.
Rest assured, that someone shooting 1000's indoor is not going to shoot a 1200 outside, not even close. Really, I'd put money on the fact that if you were barely hitting 1000 indoor, that you'd be hard pressed to break 1100 outside. I think you'll need to be consistently breaking 1100's inside to shoot a 1200 out, but I don't have some magical formula to prove it...

Brian
 

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You did the percentage alright. But 498 sounds awfully too low. I was thinking any half-experienced archer could should at least fita 540 out of eye-ball-tuned setup...

I know that you asked John - but I thought I'd give it a shot (pun intended :wink:. 1200 of 1440 is 83%. So - if my math is correct (math was never my strong subject) 83% of 300 is 249. 83% of 600 is 498. I hope I figured these right - I'm sure you'll let me know if I didn't:embara:
 

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Anyhow, would you all agree that super-fine tuning should be put aside till Recurve archer reaches safely between 270 and 280 in 30 arrow game indoors?
 

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indoor to outdoor scores

When I was at my best I was a 1270 outdoor shooter. That would gave me about fifteenth at nationals. Indoor I have shot back to back 580s and gave me fourth at nationals. So I would say a 1200 shooter should shoot at least a 550-560 indoors. No math here just knowing what many of the shooters I have shot against have done in the past.

set you tiller very close maybe favor the bottom limb just a bit. Remember you are the week link in the shooting machine. A bow with a average tune will shoot better with a accomplished shooter. Do not loose to much sleep over it, just hit the practice mat and work on the execution of the shot. this will give you much better scores.
 
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