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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for a new setup later this year with Fivics Argon X riser and wondering whether to go with Argon X limbs? Seems the pros are sticking with Titan Ex, just wondering why that would be?
Also if running a 70" bow with long limbs what are the pound ratings for draw length? I have a 29" draw and wanting to get close to 45# Will be a fairly expensive setup and so be good to try get the weighting right the first time.

Reason I ask is current WNS limbs are rated on the low side, my 36's give 41# on the fingers, and I heard all the different brands rate differently.

Any help appreciated.
 

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I actually spoke to two Olympic level French archers about this today. They told me that the early batch of Argon X limbs had a bit of a weird feeling to them. One of them described it as "an impression that the top doll is twisting slightly, it is felt a little in the fingers, but it's really fine in terms of feeling" ("feeling" here referring to the draw curve and resistance at full draw). He also added that "you have to be a very trained athletes to feel it", and given that I'm just a regular club hack I decided to give the Argon X wood core limbs a go anyway.

I shot the Titan EX wood core limbs last outdoor season and they are probably the best limbs I've shot in terms of overall feel and shot-to-shot consistency, comparing them to Wiawis One Woods, bamboo core X-Tours, various Uukhas and older Hoyt foam limbs. I shoot 70" limbs at a draw length of 29 7/8" and modern Korean style wood core limbs seem to hit a sweet spot right around that point with regards to the resistance felt during transfer and expansion, at least for me.

If you're looking for 45 lbs at 29", I think it's too close to call between 40 and 42 lbs limbs. There is plenty of room on your limb bolts to adjust either one to that poundage. I'm personally a fan of increasing poundage in small increments, especially if I'm changing the riser as well as it does take some time to get used to and an unnecessary increase in poundage at the same time might be a bit distracting. If you go for 40 lbs limbs you could start out with 42 lbs OTF and then turn them up to 45 lbs when you're comfortable shooting your new setup.

On a side note, I think "stacking" is an absolute none-issue with high-end limbs these days, unless you have an insanely long draw length (32" and upwards). I wouldn't dismiss the idea of shoting a 68" bow with a 29" draw, especially if you're talking about the foam core version. When you're "in between" recommended bow lengths like that, the shape of your face and body and the way you want make contact with the string at anchor should be the deciding factor. Finger pinch may be an issue for some, but even when shooting a 68" bow at my almost 30" of draw length I've never really noticed any of that. YMMV and all that jazz.

I'll report back in with a review of the Argon X limbs after I've shot them for a couple of weeks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh wow, this is amazing information, more than I ever imagined I would have got, so appreciated.

So sounds like the 40's will be the go then, I am currently waiting for another set of limbs WNS Motive C5 38lb, so thinking this will take me to around 43-44 OTF.

I hear what you're saying about the 68" vs 70"
Its quite strange but I was shooting faster arrows on my previous 32lb (38.5 OTF) 68", so 2.5 lbs less.. I did change from a 700 to 550 spine arrow so guessing the difference in arrow weights somehow made the lower weighted medium sized limbs shoot more efficient, and of course I hear they have a much faster punch than the long ones.

However the trick now is I've been making such good gains with the long limbs that I'm hesitant to go back to mediums. Maybe the more forgiving nature of them has helped me out too, but only way to test this would buy some medium's which starts getting a little expensive. I did experience a bit of finger pinching b4, but I didn't really understand about tiller adjustment to try fix it at the time, just had it set at a standard recommendation 10mm.

Wondering too, what arrows and spine do you shoot? Current set are Skylon Paragons 550s with 120g points 29 1/4" long, seem reasonably well tuned to current bow weight of 41lbs. Was thinking of moving to Easton A/C/E next, so interested to hear thoughts on this.

There's quite the delay 12+ weeks to get the Fivics riser and limbs , sounds like they're made to order. I normally buy through Alternative Services as their prices are very good, other archery stores seem to have the long wait time too.

Look forward to hear how the argon x limbs go.
 

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Glad to be of some assistance!

You may be right about the overall forgiveness of longer limbs, but it's hard to quantify and I've never really seen consistent results pointing in either direction as I've gone back and forth. I shot a 68" as a kid because of clearance issues as I was rather obese, but these days I'm more comfortable with 70" because of how firmly the string contacts my nose and the way they feel under the clicker. As for finger pinch, like you say, a lot of it comes down to proper tiller adjustment.

Anyway, given your background, I'd probably agree you should stick with long limbs if that's what you're comfortable with. If it ain't broke it don't need no fixin'. I just can't resist taking every opportunity given to take a stab at the inflation in recommended bow lengths we've seen over the past ten years, because it does get ridiculous at times. Only yesterday I saw a guy telling someone with a 28 1/4" draw length that since he draws further than 28" he absolutely needs 70" limbs. Give me a break...

My arrows are actually, drum roll, Skylon Paragon 550s with 120 gr. points, 29 1/4" long. I've got roughly 43 lbs on the fingers and they tune very well, even with a stiff plunger. Running arrows slightly shorter than my draw length allows me to use a weaker spine for an overall lighter arrow which is great as I use the same setup for both FITA and field. You could actually just shorten yours a tiny bit and if necessary experiment with the point weight as well. I used to shoot A/C/Es but in all honesty never felt the slightly fewer grains per inch offered enough of an advantage in field archery to offset the drawbacks of sending a lightweight, bulky arrow 70 or 90 metres downrange at a windy FITA tournament. The Paragon is the perfect multi-purpose recurve arrow in my opinion.

I've bought most of my Fivics equipment off of the French "buy & sell" group on Facebook. France and Italy are the biggest markets for Fivics in Europe and a lot of the athletes on their national teams are sponsored by the company, so it's a lot easier to find gear there than in the British, German or Swedish groups. Then again, living in Europe and speaking slightly-better-than-embarrassing French helps. New Zealanders may be at a disadvantage in that regard because of the extra hassle of shipping stuff outside the EU. Have you checked with Archery Supplies over in Australia? Steven seems to really have taken a liking to the Fivics stuff and he may have an Argon X riser or two in stock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Oh that's hilarious about the Paragons...i really like them, I've been racking up regular PBs since I got them but I'm not sure if that might be just how I was progressing anyway, my previous set were the Brixxons so was a nice upgrade. I've fletched them with Alternative Kurly vanes which while they look great and seem to do the job, they're really high maintenance as they damage so easily.

I'm still in my first year of recurve archery and only the last few months started shooting at the required max WA distances for Masters class of 70m for the 1440, or 60m for wa720's so this year I can finally start entering some competitions. But making great progress as try to shoot at least 3 times a week, including indoors. Just completed NZIFFA national indoors which was a lot of fun, the flint shoots with the changing distances is my favourite. We still shoot outdoors on the wknds if the weather is good, which it more often than not, so we're not totally stuck with indoors over the winter probably like some places in Europe probably would be.

Did check with Archery Supplies, whilst they have the riser they've only got 70-38 limbs. So thinking I really should wait prob another 6 months as have got some 38lb WNS motive c3 limbs coming that'll likely take me to 43-45lbs draw weight, and it'll take some time to work upto them before I can determine if the weight is OK, or starting to push my limits.

However going to be interesting shifting from a low-mid range built limb, to a high end like the Titon Ex to see how much nicer they are to shoot. I'm thinking thest tech used in the high spec limbs are made for a reason, and if they didnt provide some advantages then why produce them... But the question is how much better are they and can an intermediate level shooter like myself actually benefit from them. So many questions, wish I had access to some 'demo' limbs to take for a test drive but unfortunately that aint the case. So its more of a calculated gamble, and hey its always nice to have the latest gear if its within financial reach, which it is.

That French FB site has plenty of activity be cool if some second hand Titan limbs popped up on there... I'll keep a watch on it.
 

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Have been shooting two pairs of Argon X limbs (32 and 40 lbs respectively) on my Titan EX risers for a couple of days now. Overall feel is very similar to the Titans, but they do seem to pack a slightly better punch at the same draw weight. For the first time in my so-called career I don't need to push the sight bar in at all to reach 90 metres. Haven't noticed the "slight twist" in the top limb that my French friend described with either pair (one is a 2020 and the other brand new). The 40 lbs top limb did however sit a little bit too tight on the bolt so I sanded it down slightly, but that's more or less standard procedure with ILF limbs in my experience. May have been what caused the twist he was referring to, not sure.

Bogensportshopin Germany, where I got my 32 lbs limbs, have a pair of 42 lbs longs in stock now.

Whether or not getting a pair of high-end limbs like these is worth it for us mere mortals can be debated. I'd say it depends on how often you shoot, how much you enjoy quality gadgets in general, how much money you have available for hobby expenses (obviously) but also, in my opinion, on how much you've spent on the rest of your setup. If you have a quality riser, sight, rest, plunger and set of stabilizers, I don't think it makes sense to skimp on limbs just to save a couple of hundred bucks, because the extra money spent is such a tiny fraction of the total anyway. I know not everyone agrees on this and I can see why - it's still an expense, money that could have gone elsewhere - but that's my personal logic.

That said, I have directly compared the Titan EX wood core limbs to the Vellator V2 wood core limbs, the cheaper option from Fivics at roughly half the price of the Titans, and the Titans are just smoother under the clicker, give better sight marks and weigh noticeably less even at a higher poundage which indicates the use of higher quality materials. Given your age, I think it's safe to say that you shouldn't push poundage much further than those 45 lbs you aim for, and with that in mind, the Titans may well be the last pair of limbs you'll buy for a very long time, so that's also something to factor in.

7432980
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Have been shooting two pairs of Argon X limbs (32 and 40 lbs respectively) on my Titan EX risers for a couple of days now. Overall feel is very similar to the Titans, but they do seem to pack a slightly better punch at the same draw weight. For the first time in my so-called career I don't need to push the sight bar in at all to reach 90 metres. Haven't noticed the "slight twist" in the top limb that my French friend described with either pair (one is a 2020 and the other brand new). The 40 lbs top limb did however sit a little bit too tight on the bolt so I sanded it down slightly, but that's more or less standard procedure with ILF limbs in my experience. May have been what caused the twist he was referring to, not sure.

Bogensportwelt in Germany, where I got my 32 lbs limbs, have a pair of 42 lbs longs in stock now.

Whether or not getting a pair of high-end limbs like these is worth it for us mere mortals can be debated. I'd say it depends on how often you shoot, how much you enjoy quality gadgets in general, how much money you have available for hobby expenses (obviously) but also, in my opinion, on how much you've spent on the rest of your setup. If you have a quality riser, sight, rest, plunger and set of stabilizers, I don't think it makes sense to skimp on limbs just to save a couple of hundred bucks, because the extra money spent is such a tiny fraction of the total anyway. I know not everyone agrees on this and I can see why - it's still an expense, money that could have gone elsewhere - but that's my personal logic.

That said, I have directly compared the Titan EX wood core limbs to the Vellator V2 wood core limbs, the cheaper option from Fivics at roughly half the price of the Titans, and the Titans are just smoother under the clicker, give better sight marks and weigh noticeably less even at a higher poundage which indicates the use of higher quality materials. Given your age, I think it's safe to say that you shouldn't push poundage much further than those 45 lbs you aim for, and with that in mind, the Titans may well be the last pair of limbs you'll buy for a very long time, so that's also something to factor in.

View attachment 7432980
Oh very interesting, what poundage are you getting OTF with your 40's? Is it the same for the Titan EX and Argon Ex?

So you have two bows...how come? Have you got one for backup for comps, or is one the 32# for more practise?

I'm currently doing the same, I got a cheap Decut Basha Pro riser and Kinetic BamBoom (such a cool name 😁) 32# limbs which I'm setting up as an indoor rig, also looking at going barebow. Not sure how that will work out yet swapping between Olympic Recurve and barebow stringwalking... But hopefully can shoot more during the week with the lower weight.

So yes you got it right with the poundage check regards age, I've developed a bit of tennis elbow over the last couple months but am working thru it with physio advise, and so have had to reduce my shooting days to twice a week, just not enough really, but realising now you can shoot higher poundage for a day but it's the higher workload trying to shoot every other day that may not work.

Based on your feedback am wondering if a higher quality but slightly lower poundage might help me achieve my max required competition distance of 70m for the 1440s( still yet to compete in these this year) and 60m 720's....36s do reach these but not much left over in the sites, but then this may allow more regular and higher volumes of shooting.

Am going to give it another 3 months to see how the arm progresses, if all good could take the gamble and put an order in for Argon Ex long 40's. Another option right now is that Archery Supplies have a set of Titan Ex 70-38 foam.... Man so tempting. Then just stick with my WNS riser for now too.

Might be a good starting point and also if could get the type of gains over my current WNS Motive C5 36s like you did with the Vellator V2s then the upgrade could be a worthwhile investment. Then each subsequent year could just buy a new set 2# more until ideal weight was reached.

So just for comparison we had a friendly club shoot last weekend and shot a 792 Burton..can't wait to do a real comp as that level score would compete well in masters for NZ...to be fair it was perfect conditions though.

Thanks again for the info, it's invaluable as Fivics appear to be very rarely used in NZ so not really any local experience that I can tap into.

Oh one more thing, what size and type stabaliser are you running, those short rods look long.
 

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Dang, I wrote an essay length reply and apparently discarded it instead of posting. I'll answer again, briefly:

Shooting the 40 lbs Argon X limbs at 47 lbs OTF, about the same as the Titans. Trying to work up strength after the lockdown and making significant technique changes recently, hence a second, lighter setup.

Those 38 lbs Titans sound like a good deal in your situation, they will be more than enough for 70 m. My 32 lbs limbs give me 37 lbs OTF and 70 metres is a breeze even if they won't hit 90 without shoving the sight waaay in.

I've got no clue what a Burton round is. As a Swede and strict FITA shooter those British terms always throw me completely off, LOL. "Oy've been shoo'ing Bowmaster level scores on the Bellinghamshire round, mate!" - um, er... g-good for you I guess...?

Always happy to plug Fivics. They make some amazing products.

Stabilizers are Shrewd Revels, 30" for the long rod and 14" side rods, 1/2" diameter. Way too expensive to buy new and almost never show up used because there literally isn't anything out there for anyone to upgrade to. Got these off a guy who had used them on a spare setup and was downsizing. Fivics also makes top-notch stabilizers, but they're almost as expensive as the Shrewds. If you're interested in new school stabilisation (i.e. long, slim, angled side rods with a very short or no extension at all) the new Epic Fusion XC 700 line looks interesting. Not the same high modulus carbon as the more expensive brands and hence a bit heavier, but only 15 mm in diameter and short rods available in 15", for roughly 200-250 NZD for a full set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So ended up taking a slightly different direction, picked up a Win&Win Wiawis Nano TFT riser with Wiawis NS Foam limbs. Went with 34lb long limbs which gives 40.3lbs OTF. Also matched with a set of Easton A/C/E arrows which I thought due to lightness of them would help maintain my distances.

So happy with it, the limbs feel light and smooth on the draw, having the carbon riser means a huge reduction in vibration. Have been dealing with tennis elbow for past 5 months just hanging in there, and I read that the vibrations can sometimes be the cause of the injuries with it ajitating the tendons. So the theory being to switch to an all carbon setup to hopefully remove the vibration stress, and so far after a week it appears to be helping.

Must say it feels like a huge step up moving to the High end equipment, definately no regrets having had to spend the big bucks.

Next step is to work on the stabaliser setup for which I've just bought an AAE Gripper v-bar. That'll provide a lot more configurable weight adjustments to work with. Always so much to learn in archery but I guess that's what makes it so much fun.
 
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