I have been using the bolts for over 15 years. Crazy how fast you can be 20 ft up using a cordless drill. Light, compact and cheap. They can be left up to 5 seasons and still be removed. No other system out there as compact and cheap. I use 3/8"x7" bolts instead of 6". Some guys claim you need to use grade 8 but i use grade 5 as it has been explained to me that grade 5 will bend before breaking while grade 8 will just snap. Keep your feet against the tree and not out on the ends of the bolts. Don't pull out on the bolt with your hands as you climb. Pull down and you will love the system. If left from year to year they get tight enough you have to use a small pair of vise grips to spin them out. Very easy though.

 

What Size drill bit do you use? And how far in the tree do you go?

 

Agree with Brad. If you can pre set with a cordless it’s a no brainer. But I have the hand drill too. It’s faster than screw in steps but not faster than sticks. You can get a little sweaty if your not careful. Can’t use bolts on public though.

 

The hand drill creates work while hanging from the tree in a linemans belt but is very quiet. I have tried the small 12v drills to try and make it more quiet but they don't have the guts to drill the holes. I think time wise it would be very close between hanging 4 sticks vs 12 bolts. Again it is all about the system and repeated times doing it.

 

Been using them for years. With millennium receivers... I take the tree hopper bolts and stand in and out with me every hunt. Carry about 10 or so. Except for top 4 or so pegs i will leave in for season. No one can mess with your setups and most likely no one knows where I am hunting. Really like them. Before season need to redrill holes as tree closes up.

 

I've started using bolts this year. Use grade 8, they won't break. Grade 5 you might bend them and slip.

I don't leave bolts in the tree, I take them out every time. First time up a tree with a hand drill takes about 15 minutes, it can get warm drilling by hand, not too bad though. Once a tree is drilled it is the fastest way up other than pre-set steps. Overall, even hunting a spot the first time with a hand drill, it's faster than sticks for me because going down takes 1 minute and at the bottom of the tree there's nothing to pack up, they're already back in the pouch.

The best part is that a hand drill and 14 bolts in a pouch weighs 2# 4oz. I don't think any climbing method out there is lighter and it's super secure.

 

"In actual fact, Grade 5 bolts are often preferred over Grade 8 . A Grade 8 has a very high tensile strength, but can be brittle. In applications such as suspensions, a very high number of load/unload cycles can produce work hardening, which produces an immediate, or catastrophic failure. It’s often much safer to use a Grade 5 bolt which will bend, thus providing a warning, rather than a Grade 8 bolt breaking without warning. As long as the Grade 5 bolthas been sized large enough to take the expected load, we don’t want to trade toughness (resistance to stress cycles) for the ultimate tensile strength of the Grade 8 fastener."

I copied this from an article explaining grade 5 vs 8 bolts. For what we are doing i believe both are plenty stout.

 

"In actual fact, Grade 5 bolts are often preferred over Grade 8 . A Grade 8 has a very high tensile strength, but can be brittle. In applications such as suspensions, a very high number of load/unload cycles can produce work hardening, which produces an immediate, or catastrophic failure. It’s often much safer to use a Grade 5 bolt which will bend, thus providing a warning, rather than a Grade 8 bolt breaking without warning. As long as the Grade 5 bolthas been sized large enough to take the expected load, we don’t want to trade toughness (resistance to stress cycles) for the ultimate tensile strength of the Grade 8 fastener."

I copied this from an article explaining grade 5 vs 8 bolts. For what we are doing i believe both are plenty stout.

Agree to disagree. I will take the extra strength of a Grade 8 bolt over the ductility of a Grade 5. If Grade 5 is strong enough, ductility shouldn't be a concern for you. If Grade 5 (or whatever grade you're using) isn't strong enough, your shouldn't be using it, regardless of your expected failure mode.

The stress cycles required to cause fatigue cracking a Grade 8 bolt under 250ish lbs of load would long out-last your hunting years. It's a non-concern.

These types of explanations are people attempting to be engineers. It's cute, really.

 

Anyone have something of substance to add regarding the OP's post?

 

Yes, let me reiterate the substance:
-Grade 8 is stronger than grade 5 (fact)
-The strength increase of grade 8 is worth considering vs grade 5. The decrease in ductility of grade 8 is not. (Fact)
-The fatigue life of a 3/8 grade 8 bolt under typical loading conditions (using as a step) is so great that it need not be considered. (Fact)

Those who are entrenched in their ways will continue doing whatever they were going to do, regardless of anything posted here (fact). They will cite their source as someone using the phrase

"In actual fact,

 

I was going to......but after he called you "boner" in post #10, I couldn't stop laughing and the whole peeing contest lost my interest. Well done, guys!

 

5 vs 8....keep going....enjoying this...good to be entertained ;}

 

The cost difference between a grade 8 and a 5 is not that much. Hell I have had the same 2 dozen Grade 8 bolts for 10 years now and the are still in good condition.

 

BoonerBrad: can you post the source of that quote? I am actually interested.

In all likelihood both are fine. I know for a fact an average size guy can bend grade 2. Haven't tried grade 5.

The reason I say to use grade 8 is that my dad, granddad, uncles, and their hunting buddies (including Jerry Simmons, who more or less pioneered bolts as a hunting strategy) climbed literally thousands of trees with grade 8 bolts without a single failure. If there is a slightly better bolt out there, I'm all ears, but I have 100% confidence in 3/8" grade 8 bolts. Back when they first started using them in the 60s, my graddad used hardened steel pins from a cotton picker, and those worked fine too.

Some guys on saddlehunter.com use carbon or titanium "bolts" in order to save weight. I am personally not interested in trying those even though I am smaller than some of the ones using them.

 

This method doesn't kill the tree?

I had a home made climbing stand years ago that had spikes that would penetrate the tree bark, climb a hardwood with it five or six times and that was a dead tree, it may take several years for it to die but that was the end result.

 

A grade 5 fastener will bend and snap before a grade 8 will bend. Grade 8 still bends, I’m a heavy duty diesel mechanic and everything in auto and truck suspension is grade 8. Grade 5 will fail long before grade 8 will

 

I am all ears to anyone that can tell me from a tree step standpoint why brittle is better than a bolt bending? Not from a suspension standpoint but from a tree step standpoint. Side pressure is what i am asking about.

 

Buster Greenway the designer of the treehopper system started out selling to the public selling their system with grade 8 bolts over 30 years ago. I have been using them for about 25 years. I personally tried grade 5 bolts and bent quite a few at 225 lbs. I haven't come close to bending or broke a grade 8 bolt. Here is an attachment showing how much more weight the grade 8 will hold.
Grade 8 bends thousands of pounds before grade 8. Not that any hunter climbs trees at over a thousand pounds but leverage definitely comes into play.

U.S. Bolts: Tensile Strength & Proof Load Specifications

Tensile strength and proof loads SAE bolts.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

 

This is how I install and use them. Once installed I remove the bottom 10' of steps which deters hunters from trying to use or steal the stand. I hide them a few feet from the tree I'm hunting in. After 5-6 years the bolts seem to get shorter because of the tree growth. I just unscrew them with an adjustable wrench a couple of terns then close the adjustable wrench on the shaft an tap the wrench to get the bolts to come out.
I can install 10 steps in about 15 minutes. Once installed I can leave most of them without worrying much about theft like the Cranford steps at $5 each.
The difference between using these steps to using a stand that has six screws. Every time one climbs the tree, each step makes up to 6 punctures in the cambium level of the tree. Do this a few times and the tree can't get water and minerals to the tree limbs and will die. These bolts cause 10 holes not consistent in a line around the tree. In fact if you are concerned about killing the tree. Pull the bolts and install wood dowels. The bark will grow over the wound,

 

Jim i need your source that states Treehopper bolts are grade 8. Hunters are not using bolts the way they were intended so keep that in mind as well. I hope like heck every single person reading this uses grade 8 if they are indeed the better option. I have been using grade 5 for over 15 years and have reused the same ones over that time frame. Not one has bent. And bought the grade 5's because of a couple different recommendations from guys i trusted to know what they were talking about regarding the bending vs breaking. Probably have well over 500 of these bolts that have been used. I bought 750 bolts and do still have a few new ones in a box. I use somewhere around 250 to 300 every fall on different sets. May be left for the season or a few years before being pulled out and then used again.

 

Jim i need your source that states Treehopper bolts are grade 8. Hunters are not using bolts the way they were intended so keep that in mind as well. I hope like heck every single person reading this uses grade 8 if they are indeed the better option. I have been using grade 5 for over 15 years and have reused the same ones over that time frame. Not one has bent. And bought the grade 5's because of a couple different recommendations from guys i trusted to know what they were talking about regarding the bending vs breaking. Probably have well over 500 of these bolts that have been used. I bought 750 bolts and do still have a few new ones in a box. I use somewhere around 250 to 300 every fall on different sets. May be left for the season or a few years before being pulled out and then used again.

I am curious if you or anyone has an online source I am finally at the bottom of my 500 I had purchased semi locally.


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QUOTE="thirdhandman, post: 1113424607, member: 158077"]
There are many bolt distributors on the internet. If you buy 100 or more they are pretty reasonable. Sometimes you can find them at Lowes by the hundred pretty reasonable too.
[/QUOTE]
Jim i was at a show years ago in Bloominton Il. when treehopper had a booth there. They had a pole set up where guys could use their drill and test their bolts. They had several bolts at the end of the show that were bent. And i was talking to the guy after the last day when we were about to tear our booth down and he said they were grade 5 and you wanted them to bend before shearing off. Their bolts are a metric size and were originally used in huge commercial engines as head bolts if i remember our conversation correctly and came out of Canada. The ones that were bent were from large guys standing on the outside tip of them and bouncing on them. They would finally bend some. From what guys here are saying they would not have even bent had they been grade 8. And keep in mind they were only 6"s long so not that far out of the tree.

 

Brad my friend, Please just consider the fact the manufactured who sold them for tree steps for 20 years, knew what he was doing. I personally bent the grade 5 bolts and have unsuccessfully tried to bend the grade 8. I have never broken either one.

 

Ae you saying what you bent was from them and they changed to grade 8?

 

double post

 

No longer amazed at the stupid things people argue about.

 

This question of strength vs. brittleness is common, and not just among people who are climbing trees with bolts. This is not exactly scientific, but I think it is relevant:

 

And look how much harder it was to bend the Grade 8

 

Where are you finding 8"- 10" 3/8" grade 8 bolts, my search skills are weak.

 

The longer the bolt is, the easier it will bend. After many trials, I'm sticking with the 8'' x 3/8'' grade 8. I found a box of 100 at Lowes many years ago for about $100 back then. When one drills into the tree, drill it so the bolt will be just slightly tipped up. That ensures gravity keeps the bolt from accidentally backing out when bumped. 10 mm is the correct size but a 1/2'' will work. If you drill in about 3 1/2'' that will leave a 4 1/2'' grip for climbing. The nice thing about the Tree Hopper bit if you can find one is they have a self-starting screw tip. That makes it much easier to drill using a battery drill. It also has an automatic stop point. When you hit the stop point, keep the drill going and it will help remove the chips.
After about 25 years of using them, I lost about 10 of them the year I had part of my lung removed. They should have been removed before the surgery. A few years later there wasn't enough to grip to get them out. Other than that, they have been the least expensive system I've used for a permanent hang-on stand. Just remember to back them out or reset the bolts every couple of years so the tree doesn't grow over them.

 

After trying every climbing method for 1 full season with nothing I feel good about, im about out of options. Bolts might be the last thing to try.


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I use the Treehopper bits but i have do modify them a little to get a bit deeper in the tree. I still use the 7" bolts. I have been told grade 8 is the best option not grade 5.