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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is the Final video.
We shot through 16 inches of gel. Just a little bit of Murphy's law . The second shot through the gel was actually the first. I had shot the bow in at home for a 10 ft shot. and did not do a test shot at the studio. Well somehow even in the bowcase the sight adjustment slipped. and we go a really revealing shot of the broadhead hitting the wall of the tube and continuing on.

I have been explaining for years that the rotation the Turbonock generates continues for some distance when you hit an animal. We even checked animals that were shot and saw the damage. but you all know how These forums are. A good many people over the years just chose not to believe the claims .

Just look at the damage!!!
I want to thank Alan Teitel for his expertise in making what happens visible.
 

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So what is causing the rotation through the gel? The nock or the single bevel broadhead? We all know that single bevel heads rotate as they travel through a target. You should have used a double bevel head or a field point for this test so that we know for sure what's rotating the arrow as it passes through.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So what is causing the rotation through the gel? The nock or the single bevel broadhead? We all know that single bevel heads rotate as they travel through a target. You should have used a double bevel head or a field point for this test so that we know for sure what's rotating the arrow as it passes through.
Look very closely at the gel. you can see the vanes of the nock cutting a second rotational path. Also what got the broadhead rotating that fast in such a short distance??? (remember the nock has a twist in it!)
 

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Have you ever tried the T5 with a FOB?
 

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Look very closely at the gel. you can see the vanes of the nock cutting a second rotational path. Also what got the broadhead rotating that fast in such a short distance??? (remember the nock has a twist in it!)
I know why it's rotating before hitting the target but you could put a single bevel broadhead on a bareshaft, no fletching, and a regular nock and when the broadhead hits the target, it will rotate through the target. I'm just saying if you want to show how YOUR product rotates as it passes through a target, you should have used someone else's product that's proven to do the same thing. That's like a diet pill company proving that their pill makes you lose weight.........as long as you eat healthy and exercise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I know why it's rotating before hitting the target but you could put a single bevel broadhead on a bareshaft, no fletching, and a regular nock and when the broadhead hits the target, it will rotate through the target. I'm just saying if you want to show how YOUR product rotates as it passes through a target, you should have used someone else's product that's proven to do the same thing. That's like a diet pill company proving that their pill makes you lose weight.........as long as you eat healthy and exercise.
It cost more per day to do this type of video than I got got paid for the first year I taught school. So All the ifs and what ifs I understand.
We did what we felt was the best demo with the time we had.
I can show you a comparison by another company. using a straight broadhead.
This will not totally satisfy your concerns, But If you compare the two videos!!

In the second video . If you look closely you will see a broadhead go through gel and all rotation stops. then as the conventional fletching hits the gel it actually deforms and starts the arrow rotating in the opposite direction.
If you look at our video you first see an instantly spinning broadhead ,rotation caused by twisted Turbonock. It rotates through 16 inches of gel and after leaving the gel you would think the rotation would stop , but as you can see a second rotational cut is made by the solid offset vanes of the Turbonock. If those vanes on the turbonock were straight the rotation would have stopped. Nothing else can do this!!!!
I used the offset Badger broadhead because it aerodynamically matches my product.
But I have found that other straight blades also continue to rotate. when I have time and funds I guess I will have do do another video to satisfy you.
Or, you could by some nocks and try them ? if you do not like them, send them back! I have been making this offer for some time now.
My products will not explode when shot into snow! If you need that I can not help you.


Bohning makes a quality product , but like all other conventional nocks and fletching they can not do what the Turbonock does.
The major issue I have with this video is the "Scientific" claim that the faster you rotate an arrow the more wind resistance you have?
That is true if you use just fletching to make the arrow spin. But the Turbonock increases the rotation using a small amount of energy from the bowstring. Look how small the Stealth vanes are and yet they stabilize the broadhead. That is because the twisted. nock already got the arrow spinning. Once it is spinning you only need enough vane to keep it spinning. If you look at the video I posted showing the two arrows one with a straight nock and one with the T-4 you can see the difference. This energy enhancement is what differentiates my product from traditional methods of arrow stabilization.
 

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It cost more per day to do this type of video than I got got paid for the first year I taught school. So All the ifs and what ifs I understand.
We did what we felt was the best demo with the time we had.I can show you a comparison by another company. using a straight broadhead.
This will not totally satisfy your concerns, But If you compare the two videos!!

In the second video . If you look closely you will see a broadhead go through gel and all rotation stops. then as the conventional fletching hits the gel it actually deforms and starts the arrow rotating in the opposite direction.
If you look at our video you first see an instantly spinning broadhead ,rotation caused by twisted Turbonock. It rotates through 16 inches of gel and after leaving the gel you would think the rotation would stop , but as you can see a second rotational cut is made by the solid offset vanes of the Turbonock. If those vanes on the turbonock were straight the rotation would have stopped. Nothing else can do this!!!!
I used the offset Badger broadhead because it aerodynamically matches my product.
But I have found that other straight blades also continue to rotate. when I have time and funds I guess I will have do do another video to satisfy you.
Or, you could by some nocks and try them ? if you do not like them, send them back! I have been making this offer for some time now.
QUOTE]

I guess if it were me and I was spending a lot of money to showcase my product, I would showcase my product and not a broadhead made by another company. If you want to prove that your product is the thing causing the rotation, you can't use another product on the arrow that also causes rotation. I don't know who's helping you brainstorm but you need to fire them or you need to hire someone who knows how to do a scientific test. Your test adds more variables that confound the results of your product. That's the OPPOSITE of what you want to do, unless you got a nice little check from the maker of Badger Broadheads.

In the Bohning video, if you go to minute 2:39, you can see that the broadhead hitting the gel stops rotation. Then as the vanes enter the gel, the Blazer vanes actually cause and in fact increase rotation going through the gel. After it hits the product, what's it matter which direction it rotates? It doesn't because it still rotates. So what's the difference that your product makes if it does the same as the Blazers? I know you're going to say that yours has little sharp serrations but you should be thinking, "maybe I shouldn't post a competitors video that shows that their product does the same thing as mine".

Also later in the Bohning video, they shoot through a board. The Blazer vanes allow the arrow to pass through the board because they can deform and still pass through. If that were a bone like a shoulder blade, it would give a possibility for a pass through. Will your hard, nylon Stealth fletching/nocks allow for that or will the glued in, solid vanes immediately stop penetration through a hard bone?

I hope you see that I'm not nocking your product but pointing out that your marketing and testing could use some improving. I've read a lot of your posts and watched the videos and many of them you open yourself up to more question than you need to. The Blazer video didn't show your product do anything better than the Blazers besides create spin sooner. Your video is cool but it doesn't definitively show your product causing rotation through the gel. It could be the single bevel broadhead causing the rotation since we all know they do. I just think you are going to drop that kind of money to promote your product, you could have gotten more for your money if you thought about these things ahead of time.

PS. I already have some t4 nocks and I wish you the best with your business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I have to disagree with you.
Look at the wound generated by the arrow with the blazers.
Then look at the double wound created by the turbonock arrow. I do not know if the turbonock itself would pass through a piece of wood but for the past 12 years it has been working fine on animals.

I think the one thing you are missing. The broadhead is spinning at a high rate of speed before it hits the gel. it is the twist in the turbonock that does that.
again. look at the Turbonock Stealth cut a second wound path. It is not the momentum from the broadhead making it spin.
Also if you look at the Blazer video you can see rotation (stabilization) does not start for several feet . also looking at the over the shoulder shot you can see that the blazer arrow rotates two possible three times to the target.
Turbonocks rotate 2 time in 5 feet. As shown in the video I posted Shooting with the t-4

The blazer vanes pass through the gel deform and rotate the arrow in the opposite direction. That is an energy loss.
Also the blazers cause little if any additional wound damage.
the Rigid Vanes of the Turbonock are like hitting an animal with a second broadhead.
Again look closely at the pass through with the blazer and the wound you see produced in the gel.
Then look at the Turbonock wound. There is a profound difference.
 

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I have tried the t-4 with a Fob. it worked. but with a short axle to axle bow you could have problems with the string contacting the ring.
Could you tell me what the length is from the shoulder of the nock to valley at string contact? I have no problem with the X nock and fobs and the X nock measure's 5/16 if it's close I might give these a try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Could you tell me what the length is from the shoulder of the nock to valley at string contact? I have no problem with the X nock and fobs and the X nock measure's 5/16 if it's close I might give these a try.
Auto part Pipe Muffler Vehicle

Here is a photo.
They will work with the fob as long as your axle to axle is not steep.
 

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Here is the Final video.
We shot through 16 inches of gel. Just a little bit of Murphy's law . The second shot through the gel was actually the first. I had shot the bow in at home for a 10 ft shot. and did not do a test shot at the studio. Well somehow even in the bowcase the sight adjustment slipped. and we go a really revealing shot of the broadhead hitting the wall of the tube and continuing on.

I have been explaining for years that the rotation the Turbonock generates continues for some distance when you hit an animal. We even checked animals that were shot and saw the damage. but you all know how These forums are. A good many people over the years just chose not to believe the claims .

Just look at the damage!!!
I want to thank Alan Teitel for his expertise in making what happens visible.
Thanks for taking the time and effort to post this video - I think it's awesome. I've been following your threads on your turbonocks for some time and am going to order some off of you. I think I'm gonna try the T-4's but will PM you with a few questions when I get the chance about the availability of T4 nocks for various diameter arrows. There's no doubt from what I've seen from information shared on your product that it induces spin quick and at a significant rate which I can only see benefiting arrow flight so long as someone is spined right with their setup. I'm a fan of FOBs and think I'll try the T4's with them and some other vanes I have on hand and plan on trying. A note for FOB users - if you have a short ATA bow and encounter string pinch at the nock area with your FOB Paul can explain or show you the way to alleviate that by configuring you d-loop in a particular way. Not to take anything away from your product but those badger broadheads are definitely a good complement to them - I have some and they are KILLER!!! Thanks again for the videos and keep up the good work. I'll be contacting you in the near future to get some T4's - $10 for a USA made archery product :)
 

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I have to disagree with you.
Look at the wound generated by the arrow with the blazers.
Then look at the double wound created by the turbonock arrow. I do not know if the turbonock itself would pass through a piece of wood but for the past 12 years it has been working fine on animals.

I think the one thing you are missing. The broadhead is spinning at a high rate of speed before it hits the gel. it is the twist in the turbonock that does that.

I'm not arguing that the nocks create rotation much sooner than a traditional nock or fletching.

again. look at the Turbonock Stealth cut a second wound path. It is not the momentum from the broadhead making it spin.

How do you know? You didn't test the nocks without a single bevel broadhead that creates its own rotation. You can not say that your nock/vanes caused that rotation while in the gel because you have confounding variables in your test. That's how a scientific study works.

Also if you look at the Blazer video you can see rotation (stabilization) does not start for several feet . also looking at the over the shoulder shot you can see that the blazer arrow rotates two possible three times to the target.
Turbonocks rotate 2 time in 5 feet. As shown in the video I posted Shooting with the t-4

Again I'm not arguing that your nocks don't create rotation. Unfortunately, that's not what you claim your video shows. You claim that your nocks rotate the arrow through the gel but you can't prove that because of the confounding variables that you yourself introduced to the study.

The blazer vanes pass through the gel deform and rotate the arrow in the opposite direction. That is an energy loss.

That would create a loss of energy but how can you prove that your fletchings don't also cause a loss of energy? In fact they have to in order to create more of a wound channel. While yours may cause more damage, is that a good thing if the arrow stays inside the animal? Who knows.

Also the blazers cause little if any additional wound damage.
the Rigid Vanes of the Turbonock are like hitting an animal with a second broadhead.
Again look closely at the pass through with the blazer and the wound you see produced in the gel.
Then look at the Turbonock wound. There is a profound difference.

Again, they both will cause a loss of energy so you have to ask if it's worth the small amount of additional tissue damage that your vanes may create. You know if you would have used a field point and not a damage causing broadhead in your test, you could see how much damage your vanes actually create. That's another oversight on your part. I just think you need some help when it comes to the practicality and scientific parts of your videos. You're clearly a creative person but not all creative people are good scientists. It takes a bit of a scientist to prove something to the public.

I responded within the quote.
 

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cool videos and one thing is for sure. Huntinsker is trying very hard to help this guy out. Just don't know if he's listening............................
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I give up.
The video is what it is.
Nothing else can do what the turbo does. In a future test I will show a badger with a regular nock and a muzzy with a turbo. It will take some time.

One thing to think about at the speed the arrow is hitting the gel in real time that arrow is rotating at about 7000 rpm so the bevel on the Badger btroadhead is enhancing the penetration. but also that same rotational energy gets transmitted when the turbonock vanes hit the gel or you would not see it cutting a second rotational path.
If you look at the second shot where the broadhead bottoms out on the edge of the tube. That should have significantly stopped or reduced the rotation.yet you can still see the Turbonock vanes making a rotational cut.
It is not because of the badger. it is because of the pitch in the solid vanes. This is common sense observation.

Whether there is a passthrough like in the video or not the high rpm broadhead , whatever brand rotating at that speed creates a profound entrance wound and if you do not get a pass through you at least have one profound wound.



Nothing is guaranteed in a hunting shot. I prefer to make as big an entrance wound as possible.


In my testing before shooting this video I shot a target arrow with a stealth through gel and the same rotational wound developed.
So I know that was not from a broadhead initiating spin.
I did not feel showing a target arrow with my nock on it making a wound would be as valuable an image as with a broadhead.
Next week I can set up that shot through gel. I can shoot it in a reasonable enough slow motion to show the rotational damage.


If I compare the wounds shown in my video and the Blazer video I will choose mine.


you only see a small amount of additional tissue damage being caused by the Turbonock. I see profound damage .!
In both times it is done. If you click on thre little gear shaped image in the bottom right of the you tube viewer you can actually slow the video down even more. try .25 . and reall look at what the Turbonock is doing.
 

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So what about a lighted nock version? Do these effect expandables in a negative or positive way as far as opening?
After spending money I know the previous posts are frustrating but he is correct. Since you are trying to prove something you need to treat this just like a science experiment with a control and variables.
 
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