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Two form pictures to dissect

3774 Views 59 Replies 33 Participants Last post by  Rgarbarino
Pics of me and my buddy shooting. He is in maroon shirt, i'm in grey hoody. We are both shooting my GTO (since his bow is out of commission currently). Bow is at 63 lbs, 28.5" draw length.





I'm the bottom picture. My front arm looks locked, but it is far from it. My left arm is very relaxed, and has bend in it too. I have a 72" wingspan (and so does he, for that matter) so my DL is right on par with what it should be. The reason my anchor point is so far back is I like to shoot with my thumb against the back of my neck (so I don't creep when I shoot :)). What funny is we have the same wingspan, but that DL looks much shorter on him than it does on me.

Anyway, see what you guys think, looks like both of us need quite a bit of work. Thanks.

Nick
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Well from a pro's perpective the guy on top needs a longer draw length needs tooo get his arm in not so much of a bent position and straighten in out some elbow surgery's are not fun the guy on the bottom looks better nice tea form for this guy your buddie needs to get in front of a mirror and look at his form it is not correct push the bow away from you some and you will be correct.arm out elbow slightly towards the ground your elbow is to exagerated.:mg::mg:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
arm out elbow slightly towards the ground your elbow is to exagerated.
not sure what this means. are you talking about for me (grey hoody) or him?

When commenting, please tell which photo you are talking about. It doesn't take much for my little brain to get confused, lol

thanks
 

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Draw length to long for you maybe one inch. Also shorten up your release so it hits at second knuckle. Start there and re post. Hope Nuts and Bolts responds if he does print it out its gospel Hes the man.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Draw length to long for you maybe one inch. Also shorten up your release so it hits at second knuckle. Start there and re post. Hope Nuts and Bolts responds if he does print it out its gospel Hes the man.:)
I don't think it's physically possible for my draw length to be an inch long. If it is, I'm going to neglect it.

I will shorten up my release and try that, but I like anchoring on the back of my head. I don't want my bow arm bent all out of whack, it's relaxed and comfortable the way it is.

we'll see what more say. thanks
 

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why ask what overs have to say if you don't want to listen to them?
 

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top guy needs to push the bow away from his body more, bottom one looks pretty good.
 

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I think your bud (red shirt guy) should push the bow about an inch or two towards the target. That'll do 3 things:
It'll straighten up his bow arm a whole lot, it'll get his draw hand in closer to his head so he can actually anchor a knuckle under his ear or against his jaw (at the moment that draw hand is floating in mid air) and it'll raise his draw elbow up quite a bit and get it more in line with the arrow.
Then he should tighten his release strap so it's where a wristwatch would be, and shorten the release body all the way down.

Once he's done that, take another pic and post again and you'll probably get more meaningful comment, but raise the target up to eye level so he's not aiming down.

Your picture (hoody guy) looks better but shortening the release body would benefit you by getting your finger deeper over the trigger (less likely to punch it) and raising your draw elbow. If your thumb cant get all the way behind your head maybe you can find a different place to rest it, like behind your ear?
 

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About your release concern

I too use to have my release the same exact way you do (grey hooded guy), and put my thumb behind my neck. Somebody then told me about me punching the trigger, which I had no clue that I was doing, and that I should move the trigger back to my second nuckle. You can not believe what it did for me. It tightened up my groups, and my scores went upwards. I can still get my thumb behind my neck, it might not be in exactly the same spot, but it is close. Also, by the same guy, was told to push into the bow (for red shirt guy). This made my arm much straighter, and steadied my arm too. My scores went up more again, with even tighter groups. Yeah I know, somebody is probably going to say, "How bad were his groups before?" Well at 20 yards they weren't too bad, a little low usually, but pushing into the bow helped this. But when I shot farther than 20, I was all over the place. Now I am getting nice tight groups past 40. I just need more practice at 50 and more. Hope this helps. It did for me.
 

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I did one of these posts a few weeks ago and all it did for me is confuse me. You will recieve so many different opinions its not funny. Your best bet is to go to your shop and have a actual pro shop guy check you out. I also just posted this in another thread so I hope it helps you out but it didnt help me at all.
 

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Did not mean to hurt your feelings about draw length but a lot of great shooters will put the string on the tip of the nose for another point of reference. Also the bend of the string should be directly under your eye. Do a search on hows my form you will find examples.:darkbeer:
 

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Buddy:
- Tell him to imagine there is a line drawn between his two shoulder blades, and that line will determine the direction of where the arrow is going to go. He HAS to get the shoulders aligned with the target to allow his bones to do what his muscles cannot.
- For the same reasons, he needs to straighten the arm. Not "locked" like he is trying to hyperextend, but not bent to the point where he has to use a lot of muscles to hold it there. Lean up against a wall and experiment with the angle of the elbow and feel how hard your muscles are working. Near full extension, you will feel a point where you have to do very little work to keep off the wall.
- Also, get him to align his elbow vertically, so that the bicep is NOT working to hold the arm up. Deltoids (over the top of the shoulder) hold up bows, nothing else.
- Find an anchor. An anchor is critical for aiming and repeatability, and your friend doesnt even look like he has heard of the word. Dont assume the peep is right for both him and you, who ever's bow this is, set it up for them and let the other save up the pennies to buy their own. It is so unbelievably rare the a bow will fit and work perfectly for two people.
- DONT think about the lean. Try this: when your buddy draws, tell him to push the bow to the target as he does the first part of the draw. He has to push the bow away as much as he actually draws his hand back. This isnt actually true, but it will get him into the mindset that a lean at full draw is only related to how he holds the bow relative to his body. It has NOTHING AT ALL to do with draw length, and anyone that says so isnt worth listening to.
- DONT CHANGE DRAW LENGTH. You are both a long way away from making informed changes to fit, you both need to get your front arm and a repeatable anchor before you can really make decisions on DL. Dont change it now because youll have no idea which way to go and whether itll help or hurt your shooting. Ill put it this way - looking at your pics, at this point of your shooting, i cannot say which way to adjust, and im a fully accredited and practicing coach. Dont touch it yet, be patient.

You:
- You share most of your bud's problems, but in varying ways. Most notably, youve already self-centred your leaning, whereas he has not. This is good, but its quite unlikely youll be able to hold onto that torso posture during any changes.
- The person that suggested that you shorten the release was speaking good adivce. It puts the trigger in a place where its so much harder to punch it. Remember to squeeze a trigger. Punching bags are for punching, not triggers.
- The thumb against the back of your neck is a good idea but a bad practice. The joint in the thumb has so much movement that the creeping that you are trying to avoid is still going to happen. A solid anchor will go a longer way to fixing this. An anchor, on a compound bow, is only really responsible for aligning the string and aiming points together with the bow. Creep in a bow is controlled by the use of your rhomboids (look them up, something every archer should know of) and by bow and cam design. A valley and a good solid wall, which your elite has in spades, prevents you from shooting the bow from anywhere but the correct place. Trust your bow to do it's job, you do yours and learn how to aim it properly - get a good anchor.
- When you are aiming up or down hill, you should tilt your upper body up or down, not just your arms. It upsets your aiming platform and makes shooting up or down hills even more frustrating than normal shooting. And last time i checked, just about all the hunting ive ever heard of takes place on hills of some sort!
- Neither of you have a relaxed draw arm. You are using lateral muscles to hold that arm in that low position, as well as biceps and triceps to hold the alignment. This will get better as everything else gets into line.
 

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First picture draw is to long. His drawing elbow a little to low and his bow arm is bent to much. The second picture looks good. Good anchor if any thing maybe a little to long of draw, but not much. Yes there a lot archer that use the center of there nose, but with the bows getting shorter and more angle to the string that hard to do with out over drawing your bow are turn your head to much are tipping your head to much forward. That way you are seeing more good archers shooting just the way you are. I shoot with the same anchor. I could use the center of my nose with my target bow 40 inch, but not my hunting bow 31 inch so I shoot them both with the same anchor. I shoot great 3D scores alway up 10 to 20 points with 12 rings and 300 60 X's indoors. Your draw is hard to tell because your pointing the bow down hill.
 

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+1
The classic archer stance has a vertical line from the eye through the nocking point to the snap/button on your jeans.

Did not mean to hurt your feelings about draw length but a lot of great shooters will put the string on the tip of the nose for another point of reference. Also the bend of the string should be directly under your eye. Do a search on hows my form you will find examples.:darkbeer:
 

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I don't think it's physically possible for my draw length to be an inch long. If it is, I'm going to neglect it.

I will shorten up my release and try that, but I like anchoring on the back of my head. I don't want my bow arm bent all out of whack, it's relaxed and comfortable the way it is.

we'll see what more say. thanks
since you know better than we do why did you ask for advice. you do not have a consistant anchor how you are shooting now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Did not mean to hurt your feelings about draw length but a lot of great shooters will put the string on the tip of the nose for another point of reference. Also the bend of the string should be directly under your eye. Do a search on hows my form you will find examples.:darkbeer:
I am grateful for your input, but I'm simply not looking into shortening my draw length. I feel like I'm all cramped up and stuff when I shoot with a shorter draw.

I'm more than open to suggestions, trust me, but I have shot a shorter draw for an extended period of time and it was FAR from an improvement.

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll really start working on it.

nick
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
since you know better than we do why did you ask for advice. you do not have a consistant anchor how you are shooting now.
I never said I knew any better than anyone else. I have shot shorter draw, and it isn't for me. The draw i'm at, 28.5, is the best I shoot at, BY FAR.

My shots now are consistent. At 20 yards, on a 5 x, I can hit 5 x's on a good night SEVERAL times in a row. I don't shoot 5 spot past 20 yards, but at 30, 40, 50, and 60 yards I keep a good group. Good as in at 30 and 40 I can keep 9/10 shots in a skoal can, 50 and 60 a baseball size group.

I'm not saying I can't get better, because I definitely can, but I'm not looking into changing my draw. My bow is set up and shooting very, very well right now, and I don't think my draw length is too long. I'm more concerned about how I can alter my stance and the way my torso and such is for more consistent shooting or a better anchor point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
everyone else, thanks for all the input. if my draw is long, i'll look into changing it, at some point. I'm going to try working on everything else first and see how I shoot. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

I am going to shorten up my release first and foremost and see what that changes. Thanks a lot.
 
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