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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been thinking about doing a comparison of arrows and how consistent they really are. As some of you know, I tune all of my arrows out of a shooting machine to hit the same hole(or very very close). I also buy high end arrows and take a pretty considerable amount of time building them. The average Joe bowhunter does not have this opportunity 98% of the time and they also tend to buy prefletched arrows from the arrow manufacturer which are never cut from the back of the arrow. I don't have the funds to do this all by myself, but I would like to be able to gather some unbiased shooting machine data on different arrows. I want to take 1/2 to 1 dozen prefletched arrows out of the box, cut and insert them and shoot them all through the hooter shooter and see how they group. I would like to make a chart and record the cost of the arrows and the size of the group out of the box with the cock vane up. Then I want to spin all the nocks, swap out nocks, resquare the back of the arrow, etc. etc. to get the arrows as consistent as possible. My proposal to you guys is that you buy the arrows and ship them to me or you send me funds through PayPal and I will go down to the local shop and buy them if they are available, or you can order them online and ship them direct to me. I will tune them on my own time/dime(usually about 3-5 hours per half dozen) and then I would prefer if you pay shipping back to your door. After each set of arrows I will post about the results. Once I have most .003-.006" prefletched arrows done, then I can consider moving to higher end arrows.

I really would like to see how much bang for our buck we get with different arrows, brands, straightness ratings etc. One column of my data will represent group size per dollar. So lets say a gold tip hunter($9.16/arrow)shoots a .5" group out of the box and a xt hunter($10.83/arrow) shoots a .375" group out of the box then the hunter is a .0545" per dollar arrow vs the xt at .0346" per dollar. With this sample data you could say that the xt hunter is noticeably more consistent of an arrow for only a little extra money. This way we can compare cost per group size across different brands and arrows to find the "best bang for our buck" arrow as well as which arrow is the most consistent right our of the box. I worked in an archery shop for 9 years and I would be willing to bet 75% of the arrows we sold where the factory fletched arrows so I feel that this would be good real world information that a lot of people can use.

Let me know what your thoughts are and post up if you are interested. I am going to shoot for 1 set of arrows every week to week and a half if there is enough interest and people willing to participate.
 

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My thoughts are, very ambitious and time consuming, and probably a waste of time. You said it yourself, 75% of arrows sold in the shop you worked at were pre-fletched. Try talking to those people about all the specifics about tuning the arrows and stuff, they’re going to look at you like you have five heads. Those are my thoughts, but hey, I am pretty sure I have some pre-fletched 340 GT Warriors I’ll ship to you, if you really want to spend your time doing it. Except you’re sending me money for shipping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My thoughts are, very ambitious and time consuming, and probably a waste of time. You said it yourself, 75% of arrows sold in the shop you worked at were pre-fletched. Try talking to those people about all the specifics about tuning the arrows and stuff, they’re going to look at you like you have five heads. Those are my thoughts, but hey, I am pretty sure I have some pre-fletched 340 GT Warriors I’ll ship to you, if you really want to spend your time doing it. Except you’re sending me money for shipping.
I want to test fresh out of the box unaltered arrows. Look at how many arrow discussions are on this site. This would just be a (relatively) easy way to compare what the majority of archers are buying. I know a lot of people that buy prefletched arrows and they take their shooting very seriously. Many of these guys don't know about some of the small things like arrow tuning that can make a big difference. I'm looking for some people that already plan on ordering arrows that will allow me to cut and insert them for them and put them through my test before shipping them to them. It may cost them an extra $10 in shipping but they get arrows that are tuned to be as consistent as possible. The rest of us just get to learn from the results.
 

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I want to test fresh out of the box unaltered arrows. Look at how many arrow discussions are on this site. This would just be a (relatively) easy way to compare what the majority of archers are buying. I know a lot of people that buy prefletched arrows and they take their shooting very seriously. Many of these guys don't know about some of the small things like arrow tuning that can make a big difference. I'm looking for some people that already plan on ordering arrows that will allow me to cut and insert them for them and put them through my test before shipping them to them. It may cost them an extra $10 in shipping but they get arrows that are tuned to be as consistent as possible. The rest of us just get to learn from the results.
I dunno. I mean, I don't go to the lengths that you do but I take care in building my arrows and I know most of my peers/buddies are at least fletching their own arrows. Most buy more expensive shafts than I do.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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One Shot
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I like the idea.

Plus, here's a chance for free nock tuning for guys without the tools or knowledge base.

Good luck, I'll be watching for results.
 

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Thanks. I feel it's a win-win for everyone that participates.


I started to compose, and decided to delete, a post in which I was suggesting a new marketing ploy... "Nock tuning for the cost of shipping..."

So, I did catch in later posts you want unaltered and uncut, is there a spine range you're looking at? I shoot relatively low poundage bows.

Also, is this just carbons, or will you include aluminums in your experiment?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I started to compose, and decided to delete, a post in which I was suggesting a new marketing ploy... "Nock tuning for the cost of shipping..."

So, I did catch in later posts you want unaltered and uncut, is there a spine range you're looking at? I shoot relatively low poundage bows.

Also, is this just carbons, or will you include aluminums in your experiment?
Any prefletched new in box arrows. I prefer 400 spine but could also do 340's and 500's. My evolve currently has 60# limbs on it but I do have 70# limbs as well. To make this a fair comparison I don't want to do any arrows that are not fresh from the factory and untouched.
 

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I think it's a great idea, but you should accept a few of my arrows to try as a control group, lol. They are neither new or factory fletched....
 

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I started to compose, and decided to delete, a post in which I was suggesting a new marketing ploy... "Nock tuning for the cost of shipping..."
Same as "we square arrow ends?" ;) < see the smiley?

ontarget7 has said and I've said; Arrow saw set up properly and arrow spun properly arrow squaring is not needed.

The problem with nock tuning is the owner shooting after a "nock tune job." I won't paper tune for anyone. They shoot, I help is as far as I go.

I don't go for "out sourced" bow tuning either. I'm here and my bow is there? Nope.

Sneak, I buy good quality arrows. Worst would be Carbon Express at .0025" for straightness. I can name a slug of arrow brands that passed my test. Arrows must group within the X ring of NFAA 20 yard target from 30 yards.

Don't know where to "draw the line." Carbon Express Rebels of old, .005" for straightness. Staff shooter made them look like the most precise arrows on the market, drilling the X ring from 30 yards like it was nothing. And he did it with arrows from the 3 dozen he ended up buying.....

Spine/draw weight? Days of old again. Carbon Express CX 300 Selects, .370" spine. Even the standard CX300. We shot these with 65 thru 70 pounds bows and they shot great. I used 67 pounds for my standard CX300 hunting arrows and that bow was super accurate. My very first dozen of CX300 Selects built to 375 grs with a spread of .1 gr for the dozen.

Pushing the limits of spine. I've posted of the Harvest Time Archery arrows, HT3, .400" spine. Began with 80 gr glue-in point and ran up to 192 grs and accuracy remained great for 20 and 30 yards.
Pushed spine on my CXL Pro 150s. .500" spine, 62 pounds, velocity 310 fps. Accuracy as great as could be, but the arrows would snap off at the target....

Archery testing will always be testing. There are no specs to hold to. Draw weight, draw length, arrow length, point weight, vanes, just too much to have any kind of a spec.....Survey done on AT a while back on draw length. Most didn't make 29" of draw, but here we have the old AMO, IBO and ATA using 30".....

Great if you can get done, but man, so much testing you'd be wore out.... I was wore out testing vanes one summer....
 

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can I shoot it?
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I think I might be game for a new 1/2 dozen set. What brand do you want to start with?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sonny I agree it will be a lot of work. That's why I am limiting this tuning to a dozen arrows of each kind. Tuning arrows is a lot of work. More than most know. But I'm willing to do it for free to get some good data/info out to the average archer. I have seen a big variety just with .001" straightness in terms of poi difference out of a shooting machine. I have never tried to tune a .003 arrow or less so I am also interested in the results.
 

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Kudos to you for trying to take something like this on.

Like most good info here, it will remain active for a bit and the next hunting season the same questions will be asked "Is a .001" straightness arrow better than a .003" or .006"?

I would surmise that your findings will align with this paper by the good Dr. Park:
Park,J.L., Aitchison,P.J., Bielby,A.J., Bleakley,V., Carberry,T.B., Ellis,R.M., Kerner,R.D., MacDonald,A.D., Oosthuizen,D., Pankhurst,S.B. and Psarakis,K., Effect of arrow shaft straightness on arrow grouping, Proc IMechE Part P: J Sports Engineering and Technology, DOI: 10.1177/1754337117736705

Be sure to measure and document all the arrow characteristics as needed as you know the anecdotal and tribal knowledge types will come up with some inane aspect of arrows you didn't consider that will "invalidate" your results.

I know the value of tuning my arrows in a shooter and will continue doing so with the most consistent shafts I choose to afford.

YMMV.
 

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Interesting idea, however there's more that goes into making an "accurate arrow" than just the arrow. For example, too much or too little drag or FOC and the accuracy won't be as good as it might otherwise be. Same goes for other factors that have nothing to do with the characteristics of the arrow itself, such as how the bow is "tuned", or finding the exact poundage that produces the best reaction for that particular arrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Interesting idea, however there's more that goes into making an "accurate arrow" than just the arrow. For example, too much or too little drag or FOC and the accuracy won't be as good as it might otherwise be. Same goes for other factors that have nothing to do with the characteristics of the arrow itself, such as how the bow is "tuned", or finding the exact poundage that produces the best reaction for that particular arrow.
You are completely missing the point and are a little wrong on a few things. The bows tune, FOC, and drag have nothing to do with arrow consistency. All I'm looking to do is test the most popular arrows sold to the average joe archers. I'm not looking for the most consistent arrow setup as I know what that is for me and 75%+ of this forum disagrees with that. I want to show how well an out of the box cut and inserted prefletched arrow performs. I know all of my deep impacts will shoot well within a dime at 22 yards out of the machine. I don't expect these less expensive prefletched arrows to come anywhere close. Some guys say the arrow straightness and quality is a mute point and they are all more than consistent enough. Well I have the equipment and means to put actual data out there with a little help from some people. The method I'm going to use will not make these arrows as consistent as they could be because I will not be cutting off the back. I will not be fketching the arrows on the straightest end of the arrow. I'm simply building arrows just like a shop is going to do for the majority or archers.
 

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The bows tune, FOC, and drag have nothing to do with arrow consistency.
Tune, FOC, and drag absolutely affect the groupability of arrows. An arrow is not going to group the same at distance with various FOC's, there's going to be configurations that work better than others, and that cannot be found by any method other than shooting them. The same is true for various fletching configurations. Similarly, an arrow is not going to group the same as the draw weight of the bow is changed. There's a lot that goes on between the time the release breaks and when the arrow detaches from the string, and that absolutely affects how consistently the arrow impacts the downrange target.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Tune, FOC, and drag absolutely affect the groupability of arrows. An arrow is not going to group the same at distance with various FOC's, there's going to be configurations that work better than others, and that cannot be found by any method other than shooting them. The same is true for various fletching configurations. Similarly, an arrow is not going to group the same as the draw weight of the bow is changed. There's a lot that goes on between the time the release breaks and when the arrow detaches from the string, and that absolutely affects how consistently the arrow impacts the downrange target.
Your are mixing up consistency with forgiveness. Out of a shooting machine, a good batch of tuned arrows will group equally no matter the bow tune. It does not matter the foc, fketchings, or anything else. If the arrows are matched and the input is EXACTLY the same the arrows will hit the same spot. I am taking the human error out of it in a controlled environment and only testing arrow consistency. We can go onto another topic about what type of setup will be the most forgiving but that is a completely different topic.
 

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I'd definitely be interested to see the results. Unfortunately everything I look at is higher end. I'm currently on the lookout for some good outdoor target arrows as well as some good hunting arrows for fixed blades.
 
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