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· Sponge 4 bowhunting info
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So in reviewing several types of hard cast bullets for backcountry carry, Underwood appears to be one of the top brands however, containing lead makes it illegal in CA. I have some G9 Woodsman brass ammo in 10mm and may carry the Underwood outta state. But a few of you guys tout the 200gr though the 220gr hard cast is said to improve penetration. Here's the reply I got from Underwood...would be interested in hearing comments from those who can conducted their own penetration tests.

Hard Cast bullets are an alloy of lead containing tin and antimony to bring the Brinell hardness up to a desirable level, such as the Brinell of 21-22 that we use.
What you have seen from the 220gr will more than likely work for the 200gr as well. Both act the same in tissues/fluids, only the extra mass and momentum of the 220gr leans it to penetrate a bit further if there is enough material to catch/measure these bullets. During our in-house gel tests, both the 200gr and 220gr penetrated more than 50" of gel. We stopped adding more gel at 50" because we're pretty comfortable saying more than 50" is good enough for anything in North America.


I was gonna buy a box of the Buffalo Bore hard cast too (for penetration testing using newspapers) but their shipping is just ridiculous. Other vendors don't sell this BB ammo. Almost $22. for ground shipping...are they nuts? Underwood shipped more boxes using the same ground carrier for $7.95

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· Sponge 4 bowhunting info
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I ended up going with with Doubletap 200gr hardcast 10mm after a lot of reading on different brands. Dont have a review yet, as they arrive tomorrow. I paid $10 flat rate shipping for 100 rounds.
I have heard some disturbing things about DT primers failing...steered clear. Don't wanna risk hearing a click instead of a boom.
 

· Corripe Cervisiam
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I swear I have posted the info out there for you WB.....site is not letting me search and find it tonight.

I've run 500 rds of Underwood 200gr hardcast- my chosen bear defense rd- through my gen 3 G20SF 10mm. Its bone stock except for a SS guide rod. I did do some trigger component and ramp polishing- the $.25 trigger job...and plan to change the sights.

I have buddies that have done a lot of tweaking to their G-20's; LW or KKM barrels, spring changes, etc. I've even shot a couple of those while deciding whether to swap for my .44.

I tested mine stock and as long as you clean the gun every 300 rds or so with the hardcast....they are fine. On one round of testing I ran 300 rds of the 200gr through mine with the hot barrel....and it was just showing signs of discolor in the back 20% of the barrel [I was checking it every 50 rds.]

Stock and it runs like a top- zero malfunctions with that and the 180 gr FMJ ammo. Super sweet shooter.

Now my buddies have had problems with the 220gr key holing...and I've seen corroborating statements on that- so I stayed away. This ammo is expensive enough, though I bought almost case qty through my wholesale FFL so I got a little break.

The after market barrels claim better accuracy. The stock barrel is dang accurate...more accurate than anyone without a ransom rest can shoot it. I recommend keeping it stock for Bear protection...this guarantees it goes bang.

Aftermarket barrels typically have tighter chambers, Good right? Well not when that tighter chamber causes a round not to feed correctly. The Wide meplat bullets really aren't designed for a semi auto to feed smoothly. The flat face bullet can slow feeding...catch on the ramp...and keep your slide from going into battery.

Point is; function check it with a couple boxes of Hardcast ammo to make sure it functions....but I did most of the heavy lifting for you........grin

BTW, that G20 is a sweet shooter....love that Glock almost as much as the G17's.

...
 

· Sponge 4 bowhunting info
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Now ya tell me. My $200. KKM Glock 40 Match 10MM 6" - Blacknitride barrel arrived last night. I guess I'll see if I can make it F up.

Tool accessory Tool


Dunno why pic is upside down here, it's not when I attached it from my PC.

Have any GWs inspected your sidearm ammo in CA?
 

· Corripe Cervisiam
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Theres a good chance that barrel will perform perfectly for you....KKM makes some good stuff.

You can tweak these Glocks to perform flawlessly...but it also can be a hassle with trial and error on springs and such. I anticipated this and bought a few springs when I got my G20- never needed them.


All of my Glocks are 100% on function except my G23 with 9mm KKM conversion barrel [very rarely malfunctions] ....and my G20 runs like a top, love that thing.

I don't shoot that conversion barrel much anymore as I have been picking up a couple lefty friendly Gen 5's on the private party market here....otherwise I don't see much of a difference between the gen 3 and gen 5. Best trigger on all of my Glocks is on a gen 3.

The supposed "Better trigger" of the gen 5 and the marksman barrel are exaggerated, IMO. In fact, there is a little friction in those Gen 5's from the Slide lock and the transfer bar. FWIW, I've ground mine down a tad for clearance then polished to lessen trigger bar/Slide lock contact.

Your Gen4 G40 doesn't have that ambi slide lock...so not an issue.
 

· Sponge 4 bowhunting info
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A buddy who is big into 3 gun competition says the majority of guys shooting Glocks are shooting match grade KKM BN-treated barrels now. Although corrosion protection is probably the biggest benefit I will get out it (my sidearms get used and abused on some truly miserable weather) I am hopeful the tighter tolerances will improve my accuracy. We'll see. Western traditional bow hunting forces us to get up close and personal with big game at ground level...your pistol is really your sole defense in a SHTF scenario which is why I am looking to upgrade from my .44 S&W 329PD.
 

· Corripe Cervisiam
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A buddy who is big into 3 gun competition says the majority of guys shooting Glocks are shooting match grade KKM BN-treated barrels now.
Yeah, but that's apples and oranges, right?

First, those guys are shooting FMJ target ammo- rounded bullets and no feeding issues. Second, modifications bumps you from stock and puts you in a class with the open guys, if a guy is going to do that he might as well pickup an STI open pistol. Point is; different criteria- no one dies in their pistol competition when their gun malfunctions


I am hopeful the tighter tolerances will improve my accuracy. We'll see.
Nope, respectfully...... you won't see a difference.
I would be leery of guys saying the KKM is a lot more accurate than stock barrel.
A similar analogy would be like someone saying they can see the difference in groups with an arrow that's 5 grains more- nope, they can't.

IMO, Where you see better accuracy with a Glock is having a smith machine/improve the barrel lock up...OR when you get a after market barrel that's not just drop in but has to be fitted. The Glock trigger limits extreme accuracy- they aren't designed as a bullseye pistol


I am looking to upgrade from my .44 S&W 329PD.
Well as you know, that^ is one of the best bear defense guns there is. I think very highly of them. That SW329 is actually lighter than a fully loaded G20.

My reason for going to the G20 vs my SW 629 .44 was simply to use what I shoot best; fastest, more accurate and more intuitive[/U] not because its lighter or has more mag capacity [a stupid reason, IMO]

I shoot on a buddies ranch 15 min away with my own Steel plate setup. I ran over 3 cases of ammo through my Glocks last summer...and the key is practicing draw and shoot for speed and accuracy. Some ranges don't allow this....sucks for practice.

So bottom line.... practice with your chosen weapon or spray like your life depend on it ...as it just might.


....
 

· Sponge 4 bowhunting info
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My local range allows holster draw during the 1st hour of the day only. Good for live fire exercises for EDC. I also take digital training classes using pneumatic G22 pistols in real life scenarios. A lot of LEOs rely on this type of practice training. It's always fun when you're able to put two rounds in the same hole while under duress. Helps me decompress from a string of long workdays. All training provided by ex-mil & LEOs.



When in the desert we'll rubber band clay disks to scrub branches to present a moving target (need some wind of course) which is real fun with a pistol. The 329PD was never a good choice for me because it's so hard to be accurate with after two shots. It is painful to shoot whereas the 10mm is closer to my EDC gun so I'm checking it out. The more training I engage in, the more I appreciate having greater capacity and faster reload times (mag changes versus revolver speed-loaders). Gonna try some live fire training on a target moving towards me with the Glock 40 after I get the co-witnessing iron sights on it.
 

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I think Selway ammo carries the Buffalo Bore and shipping is reasonable (haven't looked lately).Edit: just checked and they are out of stock.
I shoot the Double Tap hard cast and never had a loading problem and haven't had to change the barrel or any springs(in my Ruger GP100:)).
I love Glocks, but my son came scary close to the biggest griz he's ever seen this year where we hunt and I know my 357 mag isn't enough gun so I'm going 44mag and hard cast.
 

· Corripe Cervisiam
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My local range allows holster draw during the 1st hour of the day only. Good for live fire exercises for EDC.........

......
Yep^ good practice.
Heck even dry fire is good practice especially if you practice with a draw....I must have got in 200 trigger pulls watching 'Mrs Maisel' last night with my wife.

Some good info on dry fire out there....try focusing on that front sight and keep it from moving on the trigger pull.

Ammo; Here in CA it has become a huge pain....having to fill out multiple tags of paperwork for even one box of ammo.

I have to put in a plug for SCI here; JOIN, First for Hunters...and they are out there defending our hunting rights every day. When you go to a meeting, ask around and most likely you will find an FFL that is a bit of an insider with these guys. My chapter has a retired guy FFL doing stuff out of his house. Now they won't cut corners...all 100% legit, meticulous about doing everything right...but they can give you better prices.....Ammo especially if you develop a relationship with them. My FFL has all of my info and the paperwork filled out ahead of time.

Like I said, I shoot a lot....and I bring friends, family, newbies that have never shot out there...we mow through the ammo. So I spend a fair amount with my FFL but its typically 40% below retail. Now guys in free states can just order it to your door from the internet- SG ammo or Ammoman- that type of thing. They stopped us from doing that 2 years ago here.


I'm at about 700/800 rds through my G20...about 1/2 and 1/2 hard cast and 180 gr FMJ...not one malfunction.[knocking on wood]
 

· Corripe Cervisiam
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Just curious, have you conducted any bullet drop tests with the 200gr Underwood ammo? Curious how much the bullet drops at distances between 20-100 yards.

Nope. My furthest shot with my G20 is 20 yds.

Most of my shooting is at 6" and 8" steel plates I hang from T bar posts....typically draw and shoot from 7 yds to 20 yds....the steel gives you instant feedback.
 

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Thanks for sharing useful info! I'm also fond of underwood and think it is the best ammo for hunting. However, I haven't seen it on the market lately. Even when I find a place to buy some, it is extremely overpriced. I love hunting and can't imagine my life without doing it at least one-two times a season. So I decided to buy another type 32-20 wcf ammo for a better price. It works for me. What about you guys?
 
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