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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This bow is giving me fits with nock low tears and broadheads high.

Timing is spot on. Checked and re checked.

Arrow setup running dead center through Berger hole and arrow is perpendicular to the string

27” draw pulling 60.8lbs.

In order to get a bare shaft bullet hole, I’ve had to max out the rest on its upwards vertical limit, and cut my arrow 2” shorter.



Arrows are Nexxus Infinity 350. Total arrow weight 497gr. Nockturnal, 3 AAE Max Hunter Vanes, 75gr titanium outsert and 125gr tip. FOC is at 16.35%



Looks like they spine out about right.

Doesn’t make sense that I’ve had to cut 2” of length off the arrows and max out up vertical travel of the rest to get a bare shaft bullet hole.

Here’s the last session through paper




But this is also with the rest maxed out all the way up.

What am I missing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That pic shows your rest in full downward position. The little arrow mark is stationary and the hashmarks move with the rest.
Yeah, I guess I worded it differently, meaning the arrow is at the maximum top limit rest full down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I put the test back to near zero, and here is an Easton HEXX 400 at 335gr




Maybe the Nexxus Infinity 350 arrows just don’t work for this bow. The various software programs have them as optimum spine.

But … the super stiff FMJ and the much weaker HEXX each fly better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Maybe the nockturnals are a fault afterall. How bad is the Nexxus without touching any adjustment?
The tear is much bigger without any adjustment.

I’ll take out the nockturnals and try with regular nocks. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Maybe the nockturnals are a fault afterall. How bad is the Nexxus without touching any adjustment?
I was able to tinker a little bit this morning, before leaving for work. Here is the 26 inch bare shaft Nexxus with and without nockturnals, And fairly normal rest settings. Remarkable difference, I think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It has been talked about here a few times, but there was an interview with one of the Mathews engineers who says that the V3's prefer a weaker spine than you would think.

If your paper tear is different with the nocturnals either your nock fit is too tight either on the string or between the d loop knots, or that extra 15-20 grains on the back end of the arrow is stiffening it up too much.
The tied nocks and d-loop have been changed at least 6 or 7 times with moving the loop up and down the string. Some of the nocks fit the shafts loosely. All of the nocks seem to have a “normal” fit on the string.

Yeah, I did see that video with the Mathews engineer saying this bow likes a weaker spine.

I feel like a 28” arrow with 200gr up front on a 60lb bow should be perfect. The above screen shot of qSpine is with the bow at 58lbs. Here is this setup at 60.8 lbs, which is where the bow is currently set:


I think this mornings paper holes told me a lot about the Nockturnals.

I leave for Ohio tomorrow morning after work, and so it’ll be Tuesday before I can tinker with this again.

Thinking about how the Nockturnals fit on the string and how they’re activated, I now realize how it is that they can affect arrow flight.

When I was trying to tune the FMJ T-64’s in this bow I had low nock tears too, but wrenched the rest until I achieved what I wanted to, and didn’t pay much attention to how high or low the rest was. I switched out rests yesterday, because I wanted to try something different with this setup, and that’s what got me to really looking at why the rest required such extreme settings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention: I tried swapping mods and installed the 65lb mods on this bow and it made zero difference in the paper tears. Those mods maxed out the bow at 66.7lbs. So a 6lb difference made zero difference on paper tear. I should have probably realized at that point, this was likely not a spine issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I say reset your nock point to center and arrow rest as well. Don’t try your super heavy arrow and shoot a 300-340 spine with 100gr out front. Make sure form is good, shoot fletched at 5 yards. How’s it look? Make sure release is perfect. Adjust from there. Get that bullet hole. Then shoot fletched and bare together not through paper. Adjust accordingly. Then shoot fletched and broadhead. Are you close?
I've already done all of that. These tears are at 4 yards.

Judging this mornings paper tears, the Nockturnals seem to be the consistent factor. With the Easton FMJ T-64's, I had nock low tears when trying to set them up. I gave up on them. Shooting them again last night, but with g-nocks in them, they shot nock high left, with the rest a few turns down. That should have been an indicator to me that the nocks are the issue. The light weight Hexx 400's tear perfectly through paper. The Nexxus bare shaft with Nockturnal is low tear. Without, it's very close and is a smidge low right. the rest is closer to the riser than 13/64", so moving it back to zero should correct the right tear. And one small vertical adjustment should remedy the low tear.

So now the question is, what is it about the Nockturnals that cause such an obnoxious tear?
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
FWIW, it is my understanding and experience with paper tuning that it should be done at three different distances. 2 yards, 4 yards, and 6 yards.
2 yards tells you center shot and timing issues.
4 yards tells you arrow spine, tip weight, and FOC issues.
6 yards tells you arrow drag issues.

Here's a tip page on the Prime website, that Dave Cousins did. https://www.g5prime.com/expert-tips-paper-tuning-bow/
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
What do they weight vs the other ones?
14gr. The g-nocks are 9 gr. Not enough to make that significant of a difference, and the tip weight has been altered with no change in tears, so that would rule out a nock weight issue too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Break down your form? Are you confident in your release, face pressure, etc?
Yeah I’m good on that. 30 years of shooting. Former competitive shooter. Notice the difference in tears between Nockturnal and no Nockturnal? I’m not sure a form flaw would have such a drastic presentation on a 4 yard paper tear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I just got home from work, and need to pack to leave for Ohio, but if I get a few minutes this morning I’m gonna re-tie the nock set to give some more play, and try again. The nock set has been re-done at least 6-10 times while trying different things to fix this. But … maybe this bow needs more space above and below the nock, with its steep string angle with a 27” ATA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I shoot a vxr 31.5 at 26.5draw length I experienced same nock low tears at initial setup… figured out it was due to nock pinch in my nock set… after i took care of that issue i can now shoot the same arrow in a 250 300 and 340 spine tearing bullet holes in paper
I investigated that too, and it isn’t the issue. Seems only one brand of arrow is causing the low tears. At current settings, I get a nock high tear with other arrows.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I talked with Nexxus and it is their recommendation that I use a .300 spine with my setup and desired up front weight. I will try that and report back once I have the arrows.

That said, I did take the 350 spine down to 26” and have shot it with a 100gr tip on the 75gr outsert and didn’t appreciate any improvement.

The 300 spine shows very very stiff. But if it works who cares, right? I hope it does. These arrows are quite durable from what I’ve seen.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I shoot the 300 spine. I never thought they were stiff. But all I have ever shot.
What shaft length? I’m a 27” draw.

I went with the 350’s because they show they spine out right for my setup on both qSpine and AA.

Either way, I eagerly await the 300’s and hope that’s the cure.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
So I dropped draw weight by 2 lbs and nock tuned the arrows. 3 out of the 10 that arrows that are cut to 26” nock tuned acceptably. 3 of the 10 still have 1” paper tears regardless of nock tune. I spine indexed the shafts. Some have as little as 0.002” variance, others have as much as 0.008” variance. Nock fit at the nock end of the shaft is loose on some, tighter on others. When I shortened the shafts to 26”, I cut from the nock end since the outserts were epoxied in the front. This provided a uniform nock fit for “most” of the shafts.

Nexxus has recommended a .300 spine, but at this point I’m not confident that a stiffer spine will give me what I’m looking for, and based off of what I have experienced so far it would seem that I’ll need a few dozen to find a set of shafts that will fly right.

As for “my” nock tuning technique, I go in 1/4 turns, and if that doesn’t work I keep going but in 1/8 turns. So if after 12 we’ll executed shots I have egregious tears, I mark the shafts as “garbage”.

Anything I might be missing?


Semper Fi,
Mike
 
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