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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
FWIW, it is my understanding and experience with paper tuning that it should be done at three different distances. 2 yards, 4 yards, and 6 yards.
2 yards tells you center shot and timing issues.
4 yards tells you arrow spine, tip weight, and FOC issues.
6 yards tells you arrow drag issues.

Here's a tip page on the Prime website, that Dave Cousins did. https://www.g5prime.com/expert-tips-paper-tuning-bow/
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Break down your form? Are you confident in your release, face pressure, etc?
Yeah I’m good on that. 30 years of shooting. Former competitive shooter. Notice the difference in tears between Nockturnal and no Nockturnal? I’m not sure a form flaw would have such a drastic presentation on a 4 yard paper tear.
 

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I had the same exact problem with my V3 at 60lbs. I started paper tuning had the same issue with 340 spine shafts. I bumped up to 400 spine shafts and shot a bullet hole first time once I reset everything. Then during the summer I switched to 70lbs for and with 300 spine arrows and had the same exact tear I had with 340 spine at 60 lbs. So I grabbed my 340 spine arrows that I made originally and those tuned perfectly. So the V3 definitely likes a little weaker shaft.
 

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It has been talked about here a few times, but there was an interview with one of the Mathews engineers who says that the V3's prefer a weaker spine than you would think.

If your paper tear is different with the nocturnals either your nock fit is too tight either on the string or between the d loop knots, or that extra 15-20 grains on the back end of the arrow is stiffening it up too much.
Heard the same, never confirmed anywhere. More often I think it's because spine tables/calculators are unclear about how arrow length is measured. If there's 1.5" of steel glued inside shaft that section isn't bending in context of stability that question dynamic spine really is.
FWIW, it is my understanding and experience with paper tuning that it should be done at three different distances. 2 yards, 4 yards, and 6 yards.
2 yards tells you center shot and timing issues.
4 yards tells you arrow spine, tip weight, and FOC issues.
6 yards tells you arrow drag issues.

Here's a tip page on the Prime website, that Dave Cousins did. https://www.g5prime.com/expert-tips-paper-tuning-bow/
Not sure if 6yd over 4yd tells anything about fletching if you shoot bare shafts.. Also repeat of spine vs left right tear on compound with mechanical release. There is no connection. So really just go to 6-8yd with paper or find the worst possible distance and work from there. Then move to BS or BH tuning.

My current reasonably well working setup has 300 spine 28.5” Carnivore, 60gr insert, 150gr point and 21gr of vanes at 65-66#. These shoot good with stock nocks but with nockturnals the broadheads fly to random directions
Current experiment is 4mm Axis 300 at 27.5” 125+125gr point. I’ve found two Nockturnal G-nocks out of 6 that launch the arrow straight, one broken and three send any arrow sideways. Next step is I’ll screw the limbs 1/2 turn each direction and see if I can get the tear smaller.

I have nasty suspicion that high letoff and low brace height play a part in how unnecessarily hard it is to have V3 shoot perfectly.
 

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Heard the same, never confirmed anywhere. More often I think it's because spine tables/calculators are unclear about how arrow length is measured. If there's 1.5" of steel glued inside shaft that section isn't bending in context of stability that question dynamic spine really is.
If you are referring to confirming the V3 liking a weak spine, here is the video. They talking about spine at the 11:48 mark.

But the spine you are shooting with insert weight, spine, and tip weight should be good. It sounds like the nock fit between the d loop knots is too tight for the nockturnals. I shoot nockturnals out of my V3 with no change in point of impact from my stock nocks.

 

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Mathews V3 31/Axcel Rheotech HD/QAD integrate rest/10" Flatline Stabilizer/Hot shot accu-peep
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If you are referring to confirming the V3 liking a weak spine, here is the video. They talking about spine at the 11:48 mark.

But the spine you are shooting with insert weight, spine, and tip weight should be good. It sounds like the nock fit between the d loop knots is too tight for the nockturnals. I shoot nockturnals out of my V3 with no change in point of impact from my stock nocks.

Good point, I never thought about that. Pinch from your d loop or tight fitting nock on serving.
 

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If you are referring to confirming the V3 liking a weak spine, here is the video. They talking about spine at the 11:48 mark.

But the spine you are shooting with insert weight, spine, and tip weight should be good. It sounds like the nock fit between the d loop knots is too tight for the nockturnals. I shoot nockturnals out of my V3 with no change in point of impact from my stock nocks.

I guess the draw force curve that stacks up late in the cycle could cause that. Would be interesting to see some 10k fps hi res video of the launch.

So far tightest nock has been Beiter H pin nock but it has the relief cuts for nock sets. Geniuses at Feradyne apparently changed the thickness of the nock between two serieses of nockturnals. Also for some reason Easton 4mm pins are too loose in Easton 4mm shafts (Like 7 out of 12) which makes perfect sense so I'd need to glue the pins to use them
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I just got home from work, and need to pack to leave for Ohio, but if I get a few minutes this morning I’m gonna re-tie the nock set to give some more play, and try again. The nock set has been re-done at least 6-10 times while trying different things to fix this. But … maybe this bow needs more space above and below the nock, with its steep string angle with a 27” ATA.
 

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I shoot a vxr 31.5 at 26.5draw length I experienced same nock low tears at initial setup… figured out it was due to nock pinch in my nock set… after i took care of that issue i can now shoot the same arrow in a 250 300 and 340 spine tearing bullet holes in paper
 

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Mathew’s v3 27” spot Hogg, hamskea, bstinger, and of course Sitka
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I shoot a vxr 31.5 at 26.5draw length I experienced same nock low tears at initial setup… figured out it was due to nock pinch in my nock set… after i took care of that issue i can now shoot the same arrow in a 250 300 and 340 spine tearing bullet holes in paper
V3 27” here at 26.5” draw. String angle is rough, need to definitely leave room for nock pinch, I suggest tying in soft knots inside the loop to prevent the d loop from eventually sliding ( which it will 100%). Couple under over knots and you are golden
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I shoot a vxr 31.5 at 26.5draw length I experienced same nock low tears at initial setup… figured out it was due to nock pinch in my nock set… after i took care of that issue i can now shoot the same arrow in a 250 300 and 340 spine tearing bullet holes in paper
I investigated that too, and it isn’t the issue. Seems only one brand of arrow is causing the low tears. At current settings, I get a nock high tear with other arrows.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I talked with Nexxus and it is their recommendation that I use a .300 spine with my setup and desired up front weight. I will try that and report back once I have the arrows.

That said, I did take the 350 spine down to 26” and have shot it with a 100gr tip on the 75gr outsert and didn’t appreciate any improvement.

The 300 spine shows very very stiff. But if it works who cares, right? I hope it does. These arrows are quite durable from what I’ve seen.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 
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