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· Civil but Disobedient
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a problem sighting in different light conditions. I am a barebow shooter but I think this applies to all. (To translate take arrow tip and replace it with sight ring.)

As I have gotten older, my once outstanding vision has deteriorated. I just recently got glasses and have been using reading glasses for some time. Here is my dilemma.

When I am indoors I cannot see the string when wearing glasses. As a result I cannot line up the string with a selected reference point (such as the middle or edge of the riser) to give me the string and the arrow tip as two sighting references. I decided that the glasses had to go since I shoot better when I can see the string as a broad blur than not at all (and the target is clear enough for barebow accuracy without the glasses). I take the wide blur of the string and center it as best I can on the arrow tip and the target center.

I have recently noticed that when I go outdoors in bright light, my pupils constrict and the string comes into sharp focus. Centering the string on the arrow tip now blocks my view of the target center since I cannot look through the string like the compound guys do with their peeps. I have been experimenting with the various recommended positions such as middle of riser, right edge (I am left handed) etc. Doing so shifts my groupings the expected direction from the center line since I was hitting center sighting with the string on the arrow tip.

I need to choose a way to shoot. I may need separate indoor and outdoor aiming methods since my vision is distinctly different in the two situations. Changing indoors is difficult since centering a wide blur on the riser center or edge is very difficult.

One option is to change my sight point outdoors and compensate with tuning. (Today I detune a bit with the plunger to better center my groupings indoors.)

Has anyone else dealt with this problem? Did you find something that helped?
 

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When light changes, the vision of the string changes and so you have usually to move your sight. The basic rule is that sight is following the sun during the day.
As in bare bow you don't have a sight, the only way to adjust for light condition is to change the alignement of the string.
It means, you must clearly see the string and know were it is, then change it to adjust grouping to the light conditions.
This is NORMAL and the way to handle ldifferent light conditions in bare bow.
Surely many BB shooters tend to simply detune (as you say) the bow to chanage the impact point of the arrows, but of course what you loose may be much more than waht you get, by this way.
Suggestion is to change the color of your string in order to be able to see it very well also indoor and abandon your habit of thinking that the string is not there when aiming. It is there, and it is needed to aim with some sort of precision. Definitely.
 

· Civil but Disobedient
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the response. It clarifies a lot. I recently completed my most thorough tune job--bareshaft and paper--but following that, my groups were offset from center at 18 M. As a quick fix, I adjusted the plunger a bit to bring my groups back to center. It sounds like my real problem might be my string position (which I suspected at the time).

I think I will be okay outdoors. Since I can see the string, I just need to relearn how to aim. Indoors is going to be a problem. I am going to have to figure out some way of seeing the center of the string while at full draw. Fortunately, most indoor shooting is limited to 18 M so the number of solutions is limited -- and there is a lot of time to relearn before the indoor season starts.
 

· Civil but Disobedient
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This is more difficult than I had hoped. I tested Vittorio's suggestion indoors where I have the problem. The string is a large wide blur no matter what color. I cannot resolve the string well enough to place it anywhere with any level of precision.

I was all over the place horizonally today until I noticed that I was tilting my head. I raised my head up and my arrows started grouping. I am clearly using my head position to make up for my inadequate near vision.

I have to think that there are others out there with vision issues. Anybody have a unique or interesting perspective on this?
 

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indoor v. outdoor and lighting

I have noticed a tendency to shoot to the left when in bright sun or indoor. I keep a close eye now on my head position and how the string looks. I switched from a yellow string to a gray string and this has helped me in bright lights. I wear progressive bifocals when I shoot and have noticed very significant variations when I dont keep my glasses just so on my nose. I know that sounds a little weird but its something I have had to put into my shot routine, "glasses check". Just what I need another variable..lol. Gar.
 

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This is more difficult than I had hoped. I tested Vittorio's suggestion indoors where I have the problem. The string is a large wide blur no matter what color. I cannot resolve the string well enough to place it anywhere with any level of precision.

I was all over the place horizonally today until I noticed that I was tilting my head. I raised my head up and my arrows started grouping. I am clearly using my head position to make up for my inadequate near vision.

I have to think that there are others out there with vision issues. Anybody have a unique or interesting perspective on this?
Bare bow shooting with precision needs much more mental and phisical control than any other style, if you want to go to the top in it.
You don't have a stable anchoring position, as you can't anchor under the chin, you don't have a clicker and of course you don't have a sight.
Worse, you don't have also a stable hand to string position, so your tuning will ever be by definition a compromise.
1) light condition indooor can be as variable than outdoor, so your vision of the string may vary a lot also indoor depending from light position releted to target and to shooting line. Change you position on the line, change the position of the lights and you will surely find some conditions were you will be able to see the string more clearly. So, this is something that you have to take care of.
2) to increese contrast in the vision of the string, simplest way is to close the non-aiming eye. Then you will surely able to solve part of the problem, not loosing anything in the aiming process.
3) changing the alignement of the string means normally changing the position of the head. Of course.
Important is not to change it the 3 planes, but on the horizontal one only.
4) if you change the position of the head to find were your string is, and this involves the vertical plane, you will also change your draw lenght and therefore again the impact point of your arrows.

Step by step:
- use a medium contrast string (fluo green or fluo pink are good)
- learn to close your non-sighting eye (just put some tape on your non aiming lens)
- train with a cliker to get a correct stable draw lenght
- work on the postition of the head in order to have a good vision of the position of the string combined with a stable position of the head
 

· Genesis 21:20
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Hank,

I'm glad to see Vittorio helping you out, because I would be of no help at all here. Reason being, I don't even look for the string anymore when I shoot barebow. Initially, I tried to line it up with the edge of the riser, but then I started to have left and right impacts at different distances. I finally figured out that was caused by not having the arrow directly under my eye. And I was not able to have both the arrow under my eye and the string line up with the riser with my anchor point. I think my cheekbones are too wide for me to do this. Even with my Olympic bow, I've never been able to line up the string with the riser. I line it up (the blur anyway) with the outside of my aperture ring.

But back to barebow - have you tried shooting with a slight cant of the bow? This is what I eventually had to do to get the arrow directly under my eye, and once I did this, my windage was good for any distance from 15 to 50 yards...

Bare bow shooting with precision needs much more mental and phisical control than any other style, if you want to go to the top in it.
Vittorio, I completely agree. It is a great challenge.

John.
 

· Civil but Disobedient
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Vittorio, your steps are very clearly stated. I looked into a new string but could not find good advise on a visible color. You provided that. I will have a couple made up per your specifications and see which works the best. I have been working with my head position a lot and will continue to do so moving forward. I have also considered training with a clicker and am glad to hear your recommendation in that regard.

One of the things that attracts me to barebow is the difficulty and problem solving involved in making it work. Olympic recurve and compound are getting so accurate that you have to hit the middle on every shot. Barebow allows you to use the whole target -- and since I paid for a 40 cm target I don't want to waste any of it.
 

· Civil but Disobedient
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I tested string colors off the spool and found that fluo pink showed up the best in low light. I am now having a solid fluo pink string made for me. I am going to be the talk of the range. I will have to kick my own butt before the guys with camo compounds get their chance.
 

· Genesis 21:20
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I will have to kick my own butt before the guys with camo compounds get their chance.
Now that's funny Hank... :D
 

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I have (had) this problem (recurve). Wearing glasses with low lighting indoors I couldn't see the sight clearly let alone the string. The brighter part of the target was the bit in line with th site aperture. My solution was not to wear glasses (indoor and outdoor)- can now see the sight and string. Only result is a blurred target but that not really a problem. Just aim for the center of the yellow blur.
 

· Civil but Disobedient
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Joe, yours is exactly the solution that I came up with for indoor shooting. However, when I use the same anchor point and head position outdoors, the string snaps into sharp focus and blocks my view of the target. This is the puzzle that I am trying to solve.

It appears that I need to learn to aim "properly" outdoors and use the "middle of the big fuzzy blur" method indoors -- maybe the fluo pink string will shrink the size of the fuzzy blur. It appeared to when I was testing sting colors in the shop but I was only looking at single strands rather than full 14-18 strand strings.
 
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