[DwayneR]

Hello BaldMountain,

BM>I've shot 2 or three arrows into the 5 ring with a barebow and thought to myself. "Ha! This is easy. I should be able to rattle off a 300 no problem." Then I'll miss the face completely and realize, "Ummm... Maybe not." <<

ROFL!!! I have done this a few times in my life!!! I did it once in the nationals ... lost 5 points...grrrrr... couldn't believe I did it... but recovered from the incident.


BM>It's easy to see why people estimate they are shooting 2" groups. When you shoot a bow with no sights and consistantly keep arrows in a circle the size of a pie plate you feel like you are amazing. It's a darn good feeling. Because of that good feeling you estimage that a pie plate has a 2" diameter. Right? <<

I have never used a pie plate... I usually draw a small circle that I know is smaller than the blackface bullseye, and go for it... Or.. I use a blackface target..My favorite, is swiping the Business card of the Archery range... and using that...<chuckle>

Dwayne

 

[limbwalker]

Dwayne,

That's some good advice. Folks should listen to it.

The only thing I would change is your #1 and #2. I would reverse them. Early on when I began shooting the Olympic bow, a top U.S. coach told me that the three keys to shooting well were bowarm, bowarm and bowarm. You can get away with a less-than-perfect release so long as your bowarm is rock solid.

Your comparison between the release and dropping a bucket of water is right on. I like to tell folks that when they release, it is not a STATIC thing. So many traditional archers think that release hand shouldn't move. Then I ask them to visualize stretching a large rubber band as if they were drawing a bow. If they were to close their eyes, and I cut that rubber band (simulating a smooth release), what do you suppose will happen? Their drawing hand is going to move backward and their bowhand is going to move forward slightly. It's action/reaction. So, I tell folks to have their drawing hand end up under their earlobe, or their drawing fingers touching their hairline at the back of their neck. Watch the Koreans shoot, and their fingers glide along their neck below their ear. That drawing hand never comes away from the face, but moves backward at the shot.

It's a beautiful thing.

John.

 

[stickshooter]

DwayneR:

Thanks for the explanation and advice. I found it quite interesting that you said, "The medalist I use "Point on" (tip of the arrow where I am going to hit). The speed of those bow is only 99 FPS, shooting 2315's out of it." Do I understand correctly that you purposely shoot a set-up that produces a significant arc of the arrow at only 20 yards so that you can place the arrow tip on the bull when aiming? I shoot split finger and my arrow tip is somewhere on the floor. If I switch to three-under, my arrow tip is on the butt beneath the target.

 

[limbwalker]

But if you raise your anchor point and use a Looonnng heavy arrow, you will be on the target at least.

NFAA rules require you to touch the nock with a finger, so you need a high anchor point (aka facewalking).

NAA (FITA) rules allow you to move your drawing fingers down the string (aka stringwalking), so you can use a more conventional anchor.

John.

 

[DwayneR]

Hello Stickshooter,

SS>>Thanks for the explanation and advice. I found it quite interesting that you said, "The medalist I use "Point on" (tip of the arrow where I am going to hit). The speed of those bow is only 99 FPS, shooting 2315's out of it." Do I understand correctly that you purposely shoot a set-up that produces a significant arc of the arrow at only 20 yards so that you can place the arrow tip on the bull when aiming?<<

That is absolutely correct. That bow is tuned, taped together, and formed for *ONLY* 20 yards. It CANNOT even REACH 30 yards without a Arch that everyone I know of things I am going to hit the ceiling. I have only been able to shoot in one building at 30 yards... My point of aim is about 20 feet ABOVE the target. So...I have to switch bows <g>... To my conquest. It uses much lighter arrows, and much more poundage.


SS>> I shoot split finger and my arrow tip is somewhere on the floor. If I switch to three-under, my arrow tip is on the butt beneath the target.<<

There you go...You are realizing the ADVANTAGE of three fingers under. I shoot 3 under for 20 yards or less, and split (depending on the bow) for 30 yards or more (I probably should say 30 meters or more..<g>). When I hunt with my Mamba... I shoot 3 under. for 20 yards.

My arrows for my Medalist are fletched with 6 5" feathers. Thus my 20 yard arrows are the following:

2315's 175 grain tips 6 -5" feathers... Full length. All with a 29# Sky Medalist. <g>.

SS, there is not a "SET" way how to shoot archery. If any Archer tells you that this is the only way... then I would highly question him./her. What works for me, may not work for you. What works for John, may not work for me. BUT!!! What is important, is to REMEMBER ALL the different ways. Because sometime a Archer may ask, and you can give him that info. That info that didn't work for you, may be the secret to his success!

For example...Some archers shoot 3 under. I have even heard of some Bow companies not guarantee their bows if shot 3 under... My answer to that?? NEVER buy a bow from a company that has that rule. The difference between split and 3 under is the width of 1 finGer. 1/2 inch?. 1/2 inch out of 55 inches of string? or if you divide by 2 you have 27 inches of string. If their bow cannot handle that... then I would say goodby. (And there is a very respectable bowyer that has this rule). Just my opinion though...nothing more.

Dwayne

 

[DwayneR]

Hello John,

John>>But if you raise your anchor point and use a Looonnng heavy arrow, you will be on the target at least.

NFAA rules require you to touch the nock with a finger, so you need a high anchor point (aka facewalking).

NAA (FITA) rules allow you to move your drawing fingers down the string (aka stringwalking), so you can use a more conventional anchor.<<

Thats correct <g>. And if you look at my bow setup that I wrote to SS, you will see exactly what you described <g>.

Dwayne

 

[stickshooter]

DwayneR:

"2315's 175 grain tips 6 -5" feathers... Full length. All with a 29# Sky Medalist"

I'm no expert, but that has got to be in contention for the weirdest setup around. I can imagine the comments and advice I would get if I showed up at the range with something like that. Of course, the best response would be the non-verbal kind: shooting good scores.

 

[DwayneR]

Hello StickShooter,

Dr>"2315's 175 grain tips 6 -5" feathers... Full length. All with a 29# Sky Medalist"

SS>>I'm no expert, but that has got to be in contention for the weirdest setup around. I can imagine the comments and advice I would get if I showed up at the range with something like that.<<

<chuckle> Yes... I know exactly what you mean...they question it, they look at it, they ask why...then when I outshoot them, they see a new light. I enjoy getting some of the "League" computer shooters going. They shoot a computerized hunt at 20 yards...have sights, bells, and whistles. When I end up outshooting them with no sights, they take a new outlook on what Archery is all about. They laugh at my 99 FPS arrow... But take a "Look-See" when my arrow hits the bullseye as much as theirs do, or more. Then they pick up my arrows and see 6 fletches. First question that comes out of their mouth (Here is how I tell the real shooters from the neophytes). "It takes 6 feathers to stablize your Arrows??"... ( I just grin ). I probably can outshoot them with a Shaft... Its hard to explain what feathers and veins do. Their only purpose in a arrows life is to trim out the minute tail wobble, Keep the tail lifted, or keep the tail from bad releases you and I do. <g>.

A properly tuned bow to the arrow, will produce fantastic shots with or without feathers. if you can't shoot a shaft almost as good as a arrow, then one of three things is wrong....

1. Bad Form.
2. Bad Release. (This is EXTREMELY critial for finger shooters!!!)
3. Improper arrow to bow tune.


With a properly tuned arrow to bow, a Fingershooter can really see his ability by shooting a shaft.

Shoot 5 shafts... They all should land just a little higher than your feathered/veined friends. (PS feathers and veins are drag. The less drag you have to use, the better the arrow flight. Which means the better the bow to arrow tuning is). If they are going all haywire, and spreading all over kingdom come... Better look at your release with your fingers!!!! Better look at your Form!!! Is your Bow Arm stable? Are you Jerking? If your form is good, then chances are, it is either your release, or improper tuning.

If the arrows vary up and down, it is tuning... usually of the Nock. (Sometimes of the rest if you have one).

If the arrows vary right and left... that is one of two things (or both)... Bad finger release, or improper turning of bow to arrow.

Realize, it doesn't matter whether the arrow is too stiff or to soft... That doesn't matter at all. That only adjusts whether the arrow hits left or right of your intended target. What I am talking about, is if your arrows "Scatter" left or right. It doesn't matter if it is 2 feet to the left or right of the target... But do they SCATTER from 2 feet to 5 feet?.

My bow shoots dead on with a 2315, 175grain 6 feather arrow. My bow also shoots about 2 feet high (and dead on left and right) without the feathers. (Remember...feathers are DRAG!).

If you want to shoot tight groups....Tune the bow to the arrows. This means softer/harder plungers... moving the nock up or down...Adjusting the rest right or left. AND!!! (most archers do not know this)... AND!!! STRING SILENCERS!!! those little Cat Whiskers???? Moving those little whiskers up and down that string can make a BIG difference. Using LONGER whiskers compared to SHORTER whiskers is a BIG difference. Where they are placed on the string makes a BIG difference.


After you do *all* you can to the bow, then move to the arrow... heavier tip...longer/shorter Arrow... etc. but the arrow should be the VERY LAST thing you should touch... Most bows will tune to just about any arrow. if you can imagine a 29# bow shooting a 2315 arrow...

I remember Ron and Maggie....Ron shot a arrow that was 2615??? EXTREMELY large, LOTS of mass, but it was a point on bow...just like mine. he WAS the top notch shooter. 280's every time... I admire that guy...and I had the privilage of shooting next to him...and being shown lots of little tricks...amazing guy... I hope he recognizes me on this forum, Recognizes his name and his wifes first name, and responds to me...I haven't seen him in over 5 years...but It would be wonderful to chat with him again.

Ron and Maggie I know you are in the service, But this is Dwayne in Wichita KS!! Wishing you well!


SS>> Of course, the best response would be the non-verbal kind: shooting good scores.<<

Yes...That is what is fun to do...There are those who shoot, and know what and how equipment works...And then their are those who shoot, and don't know how their equipment works....Both are great shooters...One has just a little more knowledge of the true workings of their equipment. The other just knows the bells and whistles of the modern day nick-knaks you put on bows...Using speed and other gadgets to overcome the small stuff people like me (and others on this forum) need to pay attention to, in order to shoot like them.

Dwayne