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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Curious because I was watching some events on youtube and most top shooters weren't even hitting 200 fps!

I'm wondering if anyone who is "in the know" can tell me the arrow weights (or what spines of X10) top shooters are shooting, whether they use 140 gr or 120 gr tips, and what speeds most high-level competitive shooters achieve with their arrows.

Personally mine are roughly 400 grains and about 200 fps. I didn't think this was very fast but maybe it is?
 

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Bear in mind that the “speedgun” for most international events is well in front of the shooting line. They are not exit bow speeds (And not wholly reliable). If you ask specific questions about specific archers, and the relevant date, somebody might know the detail you are interested in but it will be in the “I heard from a friend..” reliability level.

My understanding was that most “top” recurve archers were shooting 100gr to 120gr. (I heard from a friend…). There are exceptions of course.

I don’t think I have met many top archers who thought much about arrow speed. They don’t care if they are getting the results. Obviously fast is good if still stable and in control but it is a relative thing. I used to have a Axis/FX setup that clocked 212fps (32” X10 410 with overnock and 100gr point). Horrible thing to shoot, tens and blues.

Stretch
 

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Desert Island Trading Co.
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Most Olympic archers at the world level shoot 100gr to 120gr as Stretch said.

And as Stretch said speed isnt important at all on that level. FOC is much more important.

Generally X10s are a pretty heavy arrow. Most will be 300gr range for arrow. I remember when i shot from 36 lbs to 54 lbs my speed was generally 198 fps. As i went up in poundage, the arrow got heavier with the spine change so the speed stayed the same.
I think the fastest i ever shot was 205 fps.

Speed seems to be much more important to archers on the compound side of archery. I see quite a lot of posts about the speed of new bows etc.

On the recurve side, it has no real bearing on tuning or results. More important is reaching the target with good sight marks. as this can be gotten with a slow or fast arrow, and tunes tend to give you what you get.

the chronos are down range from the archers at world class events on Youtube. So take the measurements with a grain of salt.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Most Olympic archers at the world level shoot 100gr to 120gr as Stretch said.

And as Stretch said speed isnt important at all on that level. FOC is much more important.

Generally X10s are a pretty heavy arrow. Most will be 300gr range for arrow. I remember when i shot from 36 lbs to 54 lbs my speed was generally 198 fps. As i went up in poundage, the arrow got heavier with the spine change so the speed stayed the same.
I think the fastest i ever shot was 205 fps.

Speed seems to be much more important to archers on the compound side or archer. I see quite a lot of posts about the speed of new bows etc.

On the recurve side, it has no real bearing on tuning or results. More important is reaching the target with good sight marks. as this can be gotten with a slow or fast arrow, and tunes tend to give you what you get.

the chronos are down range from the archers at world class events on Youtube. So take the measurements with a grain of salt.


Chris
Speed seems pretty important when you take wind into account. A faster arrow is less affected by wind.
 

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Lowered expectations
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I guarantee you, arrow speed is one of the least important considerations for a top Olympic division shooter. If it were, they’d all be shooting ACEs instead of X10s.

The flight time difference at 70 meters between a fast arrow and a slower one might be on the order of a tenth of a second, and the arrow isn't going to move much more sideways in that short a time, even in a crosswind. A dense, thin arrow will be less affected by wind than a wider, lighter one over the whole 70 meter flight.

Increased arrow speed only has significant value in unmarked distance shooting.
 

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Speed seems pretty important when you take wind into account. A faster arrow is less affected by wind.
Not true. Momentum is more important for a cross wind. This is why top level RECURVE folks pay $240.00 for a dozen 120 grain TUNGSTEN points for X10 arrows.

BUT, the stainless points that are also 120 grain points are ONLY $38.00.
EVERYBODY in the compound world, knows that it's ARROW SPEED, that defeats the cross wind.
WRONG. To defeat a cross wind, go for the smallest diameter arrow, and go for MORE FOC.

That's why recurve folks shooting X10 arrows,
will pay $200 EXTRA, for $240 a dozen 120 grain points that are TUNGSTEN instead of stainless.
SAME EXACT weight, but HIGHER density, so the 120 grain TUNGSTEN points are shorter
than the 120 grain STAINLESS points.

That slightly shorter tungsten point, BOOSTS the FOC
and combined with the small outside diameter of the X10 arrows,
makes the X10 with TUNGSTEN points, best for defeating a cross wind, less aiming off.
 

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Isn't the advantage of an X10 over an ACE not only the smaller diameter, but the heavier weight? I would think that an ACE would be the faster of the two. Could an X10 be made as light as the ACE?

Steve
SPEED for a recurve is meaningless. SERIOUS.
400 spine ACE is 7.5 gpi. OD is 0.230 inches.
430 spine ACE is 7.0 gpi. OD is 0.224 inches.


410 spine X10 is 8.5 gpi. OD is 0.211 inches.
450 spine X10 is 8.1 gpi. OD is 0.207 inches

Yes, the X10s are heavier. Yes, the X10s are smaller diameter. IF you shoot FITA,
and you want the BEST for cross wind resistance (aiming off LESS),
go with what is proven. X10s with Tungsten points.

FASTER will not help you with a cross wind...especially if you shoot ACEs, cuz the outside diameter is LARGER
and this will hurt you. Cannot avoid cross sectional area, and aerodynamics.
 

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Desert Island Trading Co.
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Speed seems pretty important when you take wind into account. A faster arrow is less affected by wind.
the better FOC arrow is less affected by the wind.
Speed is not important at all in Olympic recurve archery. Compound archers seem obsessed with speed, possibly from hype by compound bow manufacturers.

Speed has nothing to do with Olympic recurve archery results in wind or without wind.

Cast, sight marks and FOC are what are important.

My slow arrows reach the middle in wind as good as fast arrows. Small diameter, heavy arrows with good FOC are what beat wind.

my arrows use to cost me on average $75 per arrow. And i would buy two dozen at a time. All to beat the wind.

Chris
 

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Genesis 21:20
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Speed seems pretty important when you take wind into account. A faster arrow is less affected by wind.
Asks and answers his own questions.

Can't argue with that logic.
 

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Genesis 21:20
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btw, aiming off for a skilled archer isn't much of a problem. I shot against world class archers who were aiming in the blue when I never left the red, and they were scoring better than I was.
 

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Very under-rated but … in my opinion… flight stability is maybe the biggest thing. If the arrow is wobbling it will drift disproportionately. So if you have a twitchy tune sometimes bigger fletches can give you less drift and MORE PREDICTABLE drift. Obviously that has limits - don’t know where the crossover is - not suggesting 2317 with 6” feathers and 200gr points.

I do find 120gr points drift less but I also find they drop more when my release gets a bit crappy - sometimes a lot more - the difference is not enough for my personal incompetence level. When your X10 point option was 90-110 (yeah that far back) I hardly saw any difference on the target between 100 and 110. I think people over think this rather than shooting what they have.

In 1997 when I got my first X10 I was told “designed for 100gr”. I have never been able to prove that wrong.

Stretch
 

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Very under-rated but … in my opinion… flight stability is maybe the biggest thing. If the arrow is wobbling it will drift disproportionately. So if you have a twitchy tune sometimes bigger fletches can give you less drift and MORE PREDICTABLE drift. Obviously that has limits - don’t know where the crossover is - not suggesting 2317 with 6” feathers and 200gr points.

I do find 120gr points drift less but I also find they drop more when my release gets a bit crappy - sometimes a lot more - the difference is not enough for my personal incompetence level. When your X10 point option was 90-110 (yeah that far back) I hardly saw any difference on the target between 100 and 110. I think people over think this rather than shooting what they have.

In 1997 when I got my first X10 I was told “designed for 100gr”. I have never been able to prove that wrong.

Stretch
No worries or poor outcomes because of low FOC with your long draw?
Total arrow weight being a thing it seems like the heavier spines 450 and below take care of the weight issue with gpi of the heavy shaft and don’t “need” 10-40gns over in point weight because the total arrow is already heavy.
 

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Genesis 21:20
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People can always count on you to provide constructive, worthwhile posts.
Actually, they can and have here for nearly 18 years now. But I'm guilty, as are most people, of being more responsive to people who are open to learning.

The folks who followed my post explained it to you well enough. I didn't need to type it out.

If you think speed is most important, then by all means make that your goal.
 
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Genesis 21:20
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Personally, I'll take a forgiving well tuned arrow over high FOC, and this is from the only guy with 125 grain custom tungstens in his A/C/E's at the '04 trials. Drift, for an experienced archer, is not that hard to deal with. FOC only gets you so far.

The thing that kills most people btw isn't crosswind drift. It's headwinds and tailwinds. Especially tailwinds.
 
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A couple of things, the tungsten point was developed to prevent bending. The stainless steel points were bending in the stramit targets thus causing problems for the expensive x10. Problem solved plus a larger profit margin. ACE's have been used to win some major events by some very capable archers, however, the mental side does not allow those who are weak minded to believe they can do well unless they use what everyone else is using. John is right about the wind knowledge. I have always been fascinated by people who believe they don't have to aim off because they are using x10's. The better the tune the less drift but also the better the form consistency, the less drift. All of these have to be taken into consideration when using a very heavy arrow. Front of center doesn't really play that much into drift as much as a perfect tune. I used to tell people that you tune your bow and once it is tuned really good, check the FOC and then you will know what a perfect FOC is.
 

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Speed seems pretty important when you take wind into account. A faster arrow is less affected by wind.
Not true. Momentum is more important for a cross wind.
This is one of those AT things that I don't understand.
Possibly I'm just not processing some of it right.

Most (yes, also on the compound side) will claim speed is irrelevant and point at momentum instead. Also for hunting.
But half of momentum, for initial value at least though not necessarily retention, is speed.

Now: if weight rather than speed is a priority for crosswinds, I can understand that part.
But if speed is irrelevant and weight is everything, why go for the x10 when you could go for more gpi with an even heavier tip if more foc if desired?

If speed is irrelevant, why pull the back end of 40-something pounds? Just cast that heavy arrow at 20 lbs. It'll fly slower, but that's... not relevant somehow.
Everyone's just pulling twice or more that... not to launch the same weight projectile faster to get more momentum... but because they're... masochists?
 
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