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feedback?
What do I need to change (another form thread)
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Lots. BUT, if you are CRAZY happy with your current accuracy, do not change a thing. So, fire 3 fletched arrows at a shoulder height bullseye, and fire at LEAST two bareshafts at the same target, so we can see all five arrows in the bullseye, 20 yards away. RESULTS based tuning. So, we can start with your CURRENT results, and then, make changes and see how your results improve.
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Initially...grip. Your fingers stretched out like that "karate chop" is putting pressure on the thumb pad...this can create inconsistent grouping.
You know, I kind of like your shooting form for the most part. When I first looked at it you almost gave the impression of being a little long on the draw length but I think it is more of a issue of you wanting your face more straight ahead because you have glasses.
Secondly the pic doesn't show it very well but either your d-loop is really long or you have a long reach release because the distance from your hand to the nock is a little excessive.
Really though my suggestion is some new pics with a proper grip and a little change in the angle of your elbow, I would like to see your front elbow at a 45 degree angle between your elbow being straight down at the ground and straight out to the side, Half way.
I am going to put my thoughts of grip in a article below and you can read that and then google Jesse broadwater, his front arm and grip are freaking perfect so take a look and that along with the grip article you should be able to show me some new pics so I can see where we are at.
Secondly the pic doesn't show it very well but either your d-loop is really long or you have a long reach release because the distance from your hand to the nock is a little excessive.
Really though my suggestion is some new pics with a proper grip and a little change in the angle of your elbow, I would like to see your front elbow at a 45 degree angle between your elbow being straight down at the ground and straight out to the side, Half way.
I am going to put my thoughts of grip in a article below and you can read that and then google Jesse broadwater, his front arm and grip are freaking perfect so take a look and that along with the grip article you should be able to show me some new pics so I can see where we are at.
GRIP AND FRONT ARM
This is the basic grip that I see on all pro shooters and the grip that I feel is the best way to attach yourself to the bow:
To begin we are going to discuss what touches the bow and what does not touch the bow, your thumb muscle and your thumb and your index finger are the only three things allowed to touch the bow. You are going to put your knuckles at a 45 degree angle and this will move the palm and love lines out of the way. Then you index finger should be touching the front of the riser, the other three fingers are curled up and very lightly touching the palm. They should not be stretched out or stiff and by curling them and lightly touching the palm they will be nice and relaxed.
This is the neutral front arm position that will really give you a solid feel when at anchor and allow you to produce some wicked good float:
Reach out in front of yourself and put your knuckles at a 45 degree angle, now try and point your elbow down towards the floor and keep the knuckles at the 45 degree angle. This will make your arm very stiff and it will move your arm into the strings path which are two bad things, now still keeping the knuckles at the 45 degree angle turn your elbow straight out to the side and again it will feel horrible but now the arm will look really bent and your shoulder will try to stick out to the side and the deltoids try and raise up. Again all of this is really bad. Now put your elbow in between at the 45 degree angle position and again put the knuckles at the 45 degree position and now things should feel nice, this combination of the knuckles and elbow does many things. It allows your arm to be straight but moves your arm away from the string, it keeps your arm straight but gives the perception of it being bent, it lets your arm stay nice and low.
Now that we have your arm and grip at the right angles you are ready to feel the something new, we are going to treat our front arm as a broom stick and when we come to full draw we are going to allow the broom stick to push back into the front shoulder socket. This is a feeling that most people don’t ever feel because they are pushing forward into the grip lengthening their system which our human body has the ability to do and this is bad, you want the bow to push your arm back into the shoulder socket and this is where the really strong float starts happening.
The last thing I want to cover in this article is the pressure you feel in your grip, put your arm out in front of you and get the hand cocked back and in the grip position and then follow your arm bone forward into your hand and look at where it hits the thumb muscle. It comes through on the lower half of the thumb muscle towards the bottom about a half inch up nowhere near the thumb joints. This is where you want most of the bow pressure to be, you do not want to have the pressure going into the top half of the thumb muscle. where the skin goes across to the index knuckle. In the past I was warned about healing the bow and I have always stayed away from pressure on the lower half of my grip but that was back when people had their entire palm on the bow, now that we have only our thumb muscle on the bow it is a non issue. I personally like to have a relatively neutral amount of pressure on my entire thumb muscle with a little extra on the lower half, as long as I am not pushing the top half into the grip of the bow I am happy.
Socket Man
This is the basic grip that I see on all pro shooters and the grip that I feel is the best way to attach yourself to the bow:
To begin we are going to discuss what touches the bow and what does not touch the bow, your thumb muscle and your thumb and your index finger are the only three things allowed to touch the bow. You are going to put your knuckles at a 45 degree angle and this will move the palm and love lines out of the way. Then you index finger should be touching the front of the riser, the other three fingers are curled up and very lightly touching the palm. They should not be stretched out or stiff and by curling them and lightly touching the palm they will be nice and relaxed.
This is the neutral front arm position that will really give you a solid feel when at anchor and allow you to produce some wicked good float:
Reach out in front of yourself and put your knuckles at a 45 degree angle, now try and point your elbow down towards the floor and keep the knuckles at the 45 degree angle. This will make your arm very stiff and it will move your arm into the strings path which are two bad things, now still keeping the knuckles at the 45 degree angle turn your elbow straight out to the side and again it will feel horrible but now the arm will look really bent and your shoulder will try to stick out to the side and the deltoids try and raise up. Again all of this is really bad. Now put your elbow in between at the 45 degree angle position and again put the knuckles at the 45 degree position and now things should feel nice, this combination of the knuckles and elbow does many things. It allows your arm to be straight but moves your arm away from the string, it keeps your arm straight but gives the perception of it being bent, it lets your arm stay nice and low.
Now that we have your arm and grip at the right angles you are ready to feel the something new, we are going to treat our front arm as a broom stick and when we come to full draw we are going to allow the broom stick to push back into the front shoulder socket. This is a feeling that most people don’t ever feel because they are pushing forward into the grip lengthening their system which our human body has the ability to do and this is bad, you want the bow to push your arm back into the shoulder socket and this is where the really strong float starts happening.
The last thing I want to cover in this article is the pressure you feel in your grip, put your arm out in front of you and get the hand cocked back and in the grip position and then follow your arm bone forward into your hand and look at where it hits the thumb muscle. It comes through on the lower half of the thumb muscle towards the bottom about a half inch up nowhere near the thumb joints. This is where you want most of the bow pressure to be, you do not want to have the pressure going into the top half of the thumb muscle. where the skin goes across to the index knuckle. In the past I was warned about healing the bow and I have always stayed away from pressure on the lower half of my grip but that was back when people had their entire palm on the bow, now that we have only our thumb muscle on the bow it is a non issue. I personally like to have a relatively neutral amount of pressure on my entire thumb muscle with a little extra on the lower half, as long as I am not pushing the top half into the grip of the bow I am happy.
Socket Man
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1,155 Posts
To add to the great advice above. You can look at it like putting your bow had out in the stop position. Now take the index finger and point it at 11:00 and the thumb at 1:00. Now point the thumb and index finger at the target and curl the rest into your palm. Knuckles should be at 45 degrees. Bow goes on the meat of the thumb. Should get you to the same place Padgett is describing.
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616 Posts
The only time my accuracy seems to suffer is when I get tired and start to punch.
I will work on the grip, elbow angle, and try to get a new pic this afternoon.
My d-loop is VERY short, the release is a a tru-fire edge 4 finger I cut to make a 3.
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-03i3y...inger_Camo___20769.1455630529.220.220.jpg?c=2
I will work on the grip, elbow angle, and try to get a new pic this afternoon.
My d-loop is VERY short, the release is a a tru-fire edge 4 finger I cut to make a 3.
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-03i3y...inger_Camo___20769.1455630529.220.220.jpg?c=2
Joined
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616 Posts
I don't have 2 bareshafts so this is group with one using the form with different grip and elbow turned out more:
Those are 2.5" circles and shooting at 20yrds, not my best for the day, but good representation on average.
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![Bow and arrow Compound bow Bow Archery Longbow]()
Those are 2.5" circles and shooting at 20yrds, not my best for the day, but good representation on average.
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Put a horizontal strip of masking tape, and get your target up to SHOULDER height...with a LARGE enough backboard behind your target, in case you miss. VERTICAL misses are the easiest to fix FIRST. GOAL is to get ALL Fletched arrows and ALL bareshafts to hit the top edge of the masking tape. VERTICAL control means you adjust the CAMS out of SYNC, on purpose, until you get better results. EXAMPLE. Another fella, with the EXISTING amount of cam sync. He got THIS result at 20 yards. WE tune the bow for BEST RESULTS FIRST...then, fix your form, for even BETTER results.
PUT a sheet of cardboard in front of your BAG target. FIRE ONE fletched arrow THREE TIMES at the top edge of the cardboard, and you have THREE holes that you will label as "FLETCHED". FIRE your ONE bareshaft THREE TIMES, and label these holes as "Bareshaft". You should have SIX holes.
If your fletched arrows are hitting HIGH, and then your fletched arrows are hitting LOW, and your bareshaft sometimes hits HIGH and sometimes hits LOW...play with the cable end loop on the TOP cam, and PICK a direction. ADD or REMOVE a half twist. REPEAT the test. IF the results got better when you ADDED a half twist, then do it again. ADD another half twist and find the SWEET spot for the length of that ONE cable. YES, ONE cable longer or shorter...will possibly give you BETTER results, meaning all arrows hit the top edge of the masking tape.
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Ok, the minute you tried a different grip and you also did some work on your front arm it forced you to lean back a little more than in your first pictures. I do like the overall look of the front arm and the grip in a positive direction. The grip still looks like it is a little deep in the love line area. You need to be on the thumb muscle only and just next to the love line but not in it. Also make sure the knuckles are at a 45 degree angle. I have a feeling that they are more verticle to the ground than at the 45.
Now a simple thing you can do with that bow without needing a press to move the mods is to simply move the draw stops one hole shorter, this will totally shorten up your valley to where it is either gone or the bow is barely rolling over into the valley when they hit but you can at least come to full draw with a shorter draw length and take a picture in that setting. This way we can see if a shorter one helps or not. Then if we like the look you can go to the bow shop and change the mods to that setting.
Now a simple thing you can do with that bow without needing a press to move the mods is to simply move the draw stops one hole shorter, this will totally shorten up your valley to where it is either gone or the bow is barely rolling over into the valley when they hit but you can at least come to full draw with a shorter draw length and take a picture in that setting. This way we can see if a shorter one helps or not. Then if we like the look you can go to the bow shop and change the mods to that setting.
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