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I keep reading "improved stability" on higher end limbs but it's not apparent to me what that means. In particular I am looking at ILF recurve limbs and curious what the term refers to. Probably something obvious but I don't get it it and could not find it defined anywhere.
 

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nw -

Simply, the resistance to user induced torque (from either hand).
Another and older definition would be resistance to change due to environmental conditions or use.

Viper1 out.
 

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In my opinion, for 98% of the archers out there, it is pure marketing hype designed to separate archers from dollars. That's not to say it doesn't "exist," it just means that it doesn't really translate into a meaningful benefit to the vast majority of archers.

Some limbs, like some of the super recurve designs, actually require additional torsional stability just to make the design itself workable. Now, you can argue about the benefits or lack of benefit of certain designs, but that's a discussion for a different day.

If the question is what does it mean at the target end of an archery equation, not much. The elite, of the elite, of the elite target archers aren't scoring much, if any better than they were a couple decades ago, when they were using what we would now consider entry to mid level designs and material.

In terms that people can understand, if you took the limb that was tested and proven to have the highest level of torsional stability, and all other things being equal, they would not make a poor shooter an average shooter, and average shooter a good shooter, a good shooter a great shooter, or a great shooter and elite shooter.

KPC
 

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In my opinion, for 98% of the archers out there, it is pure marketing hype designed to separate archers from dollars. That's not to say it doesn't "exist," it just means that it doesn't really translate into a meaningful benefit to the vast majority of archers.

Some limbs, like some of the super recurve designs, actually require additional torsional stability just to make the design itself workable. Now, you can argue about the benefits or lack of benefit of certain designs, but that's a discussion for a different day.

If the question is what does it mean at the target end of an archery equation, not much. The elite, of the elite, of the elite target archers aren't scoring much, if any better than they were a couple decades ago, when they were using what we would now consider entry to mid level designs and material.

In terms that people can understand, if you took the limb that was tested and proven to have the highest level of torsional stability, and all other things being equal, they would not make a poor shooter an average shooter, and average shooter a good shooter, a good shooter a great shooter, or a great shooter and elite shooter.

KPC
Good post
 

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If you are talking torsional stability, it is an issue that for the most part, for the most needs, is already engineered into modern built limbs. Most advertisements lack any reference and just use a catch phrase - "stability". It could be lateral, vertical, or anything in between, even just environmentally stable as Viper1 stated as on older issue. Nowadays, with materials of carbon and foam, it seems more to go to lateral stability, induced torque.

For most part, it's one of those things where if your limbs are NOT laterally stable, you know first hand what the term means. I've had some high end limbs that were not, and everyone in the room could tell as well as me - limbs ends seemed to never settle down after the shot. Otherwise, you probably will never need to know.
 

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For most part, it's one of those things where if your limbs are NOT laterally stable, you know first hand what the term means. I've had some high end limbs that were not, and everyone in the room could tell as well as me - limbs ends seemed to never settle down after the shot. Otherwise, you probably will never need to know.
Not that it really matters after the shot, but some of the worst limbs that I have seen, at what you describe above, are also touted to be some of the most "stable" limbs on the market.

KPC
 

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...... are also touted to be some of the most "stable" limbs on the market.

KPC
If you read the ads, many all make the "most stable" limb on the market claim. Without a reference to what they meant by that, I think the OP is wondering just what condition this involves in measure. For me, I just expect the limb to perform.
 

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That was the point of my original post Sanford.

Unless it translates to an actual improvement in scoring, it means nothing.

Torsional stability can certainly be measured, but so can color intensity.

At the end of the day, so what.

KPC
 

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The Samick extreme BF Limb is running biased carbon to add Torsional stability.

The W&W Inno Limbs have enhanced TS
as do the new Hoyt Quatros. as does the Uuhka limbs.

not all limbs have parabolic cores. or a tower effect in the limb butt. or a Kevlar re-enforced core.
there is one feature they all have... thats Enhanced TS...

to me that says something.
 

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What does "it" mean at the target butt, or on an animal, over limbs of 2 decades ago that didn't have as much of "it?"

KPC
I'll bet you couldn't use some of the composite materials of today and keep "it" the same, though. Even someone building a selfbow is working off old parameters of stability whether they strive for it or not - controlling for whip tiller?

I always read enhanced torsional stability as a R/D parameter problem more than an R/D improvement, though, if the materials contribute to more speed and smoothness in draw, then, it's an improved stability issue.
 

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nw -

Simply, the resistance to user induced torque (from either hand).
Another and older definition would be resistance to change due to environmental conditions or use.

Viper1 out.
This.

it won't make you a better shot
it won't give you more points
though it might.
 

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if it sells. It must do something. Snake oil does get spotted.
so much so that every manufacturer is now using it. So over time the population are convinced enough that it does something. Because why put it in if it doesnt. No one has g9ne back to not using it?
 

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It must be jelly as jam don't shake like that.

Different materials behave differently. In a complex system like a bow, design, build and tuning details all make a difference. If good limbs are not set up properly they will not perform to true potential.

You might have great limbs, yet the riser with the wrong bend character my ruin the whole system.

Attitude of laminate materials will make a big difference in performance. If you lack basic bow handling or tuning the best rig can be degraded.

I would guess that Oly/elite shooters can feel good TS in a rig. And I bet they see a difference in scores.
 

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if it sells. It must do something.
Now that's funny. If that was the truth, nobody would be bald or fat, and every man would be well endowed now wouldn't they?

So tell us Sid, what does it do? What has more of "it" done in terms of anything measurable?

If a more "stable" limb is more forgiving of torque, and the scores haven't changed appreciably, that can only mean the archers of today aren't as talented as the archers were when there was less of "it."

If you want to play a riddle game, that's fine...we understand. However, if there is some measurable difference...in terms of actual scoring, what is it?

You know as well as I do, that the pack will follow what the public appears to be sold on. It reminds me of when oat bran was supposed to be a magic elixir when it came to lowering cholesterol. Before we knew it, every food they could add oat bran to was having oat bran added to it and being called sold as a cholesterol fix. There were oat bran pretzels, oat bran potato chips...hell there could have been oat bran lard for all I know.

Is there an actual benefit at the butt, or is lateral stability just the oat bran, or the "male enhancement" equivalent of limb manufacturers?

Yeah, we know. "Customers have said..."

bob.jpg

KPC



KPC
 

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Wasn't there once a benefit to "no glass" in TradTech limbs, that is, before it was discovered there was glass? :) Same limb!
 

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No "benefit" Sanford, just an honest misunderstanding about what material was being used. Nice try though.

Do you know what measurable benefits there are of having all this extra torsional stability, or are you just trying to divert attention too?


I've had some high end limbs that were not, and everyone in the room could tell as well as me - limbs ends seemed to never settle down after the shot.
I've seen some videos of limbs like that posted recently. I'm pretty sure Sid has also...maybe he'd like to share them with you.

KPC
 

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Gerep, I saw you laying this baited trail to start on Sid on your first posting. Heck, everyone could see that coming as an end to good discussion on yet another topic. It's time to grow up the discussion around here (reread you last post to Sid). Others may not say it, but I will. I'll point you out but won't play your games.
 

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That's interesting Sanford. I've seen this game too.

I gave my honest opinion to the OP, which hasn't yet been refuted by the way. Just a bunch of riddles, innuendo, and diversion.

I guess it's easier to try to make me the bad guy than provide any concrete information.

I understand you don't like me Sanford, that's fine. The feeling is mutual. But let's try to keep the discussions on point. If you've got any evidence that would indicate that my original post is inaccurate, please post it.

In my opinion, for 98% of the archers out there, it is pure marketing hype designed to separate archers from dollars. That's not to say it doesn't "exist," it just means that it doesn't really translate into a meaningful benefit to the vast majority of archers.

Some limbs, like some of the super recurve designs, actually require additional torsional stability just to make the design itself workable. Now, you can argue about the benefits or lack of benefit of certain designs, but that's a discussion for a different day.

If the question is what does it mean at the target end of an archery equation, not much. The elite, of the elite, of the elite target archers aren't scoring much, if any better than they were a couple decades ago, when they were using what we would now consider entry to mid level designs and material.

In terms that people can understand, if you took the limb that was tested and proven to have the highest level of torsional stability, and all other things being equal, they would not make a poor shooter an average shooter, and average shooter a good shooter, a good shooter a great shooter, or a great shooter and elite shooter.

KPC
If not, I guess we can assume there isn't any.

KPC
 
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