I suppose another point to make is that during the early part of the season... bulls will begin bugling more and more... as the season progresses... though nearly all of this is merely social banter and has little to do with defending, or stealing, hot cows.

It seems to me that during the early season bulls are merely looking to size each other up.

 

IMHO the rut starts in late August and runs through November with varying degrees of intensity. I believe those intense bugling days are cows in estrus, the rest are just part of the general rut. Its all triggered by hormones stimulated thru daylight entering through the elks pupils. In general calves are born the same time each year, but I have seen years with late calves more then other years.

 

...Its all triggered by hormones stimulated thru daylight entering through the elks pupils...

Interesting. Where did you get that info? It sounds a lot like what this guy (gselkhunter) said, but I haven't found a link for the research that concluded this.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=984762&p=1055274353#post1055274353

Photoperiodism[length of daytime light hitting the retna of the eye] controls pretty much everything in an elks life not the moon. The length of day triggers all the hormone releases which in fact control the rut. These hormone releases trigger elk to rub off velvet, trigger the cows cycle[which there are three main but can be as many as 5. The first happening around the 25th of Aug. then around the 16th of Sept. and the last around the 6th of Oct.], shedding of summer hair to winter and building of fat caps for the winter. So the peak for breeding cows happens mid Sept through first part of Oct. A cow is hot for a period up to 12 hours[has been known to last up to 15 hours] but if she isn't bred in that time frame will have to wait 21 days for the next window. MAJOR STATEMENT, not all cows come into heat at the same time. The older cows generally come into cycle first followed by younger animals. If a cow was born as a fourth or fifth cycle cow her first cycle[as a 2 yr old] could be up to 9 weeks later than a lead cow but will regulate back as a 3 yr old. So forget the moon stuff. All the moon does is let the animals go nocturnal. The other thing that makes the rut look like it is hot and heavy is heat. Hot weather will slow down the search for cows and the bugling during day light hours.

 

Here's a link on the same subject, only related to deer.
http://www.growingdeer.tv/2015/10/30/how-photoperiod-affects-the-rut/

 

And then you gotta wonder about how the moon phase affects this. Today is the peak of the full moon, and it'll be half moon on Sept 14.
So I wonder if the "amount of daylight" theory takes into account the moon phase?

 

I always heard it was the first whiff of the poon tang getting ripe that made them want to get with the cows and fight off their buddies they spent all summer with.

 

LOL - That poon tang is short lived from what I read. A cow is hot for a period up to 12 hours, and maybe up to 15 hours if she takes viagra that morning. :tongue:

 

He also told me and his nephew that it was the youngest cows in their first "period" that would come in first, one or two would be a week or two well before the actual rut began.

 

Photoperiodism is the most likely and logical answer. I have admittedly read more on deer than on elk but I would be willing to bet it is the same thing. If you raise captive deer and want to collect estrus urine from them you put them in a building and control the light and they will go into estrus- it has nothing to do with the temperature, age, etc and all about what triggers the hormones to change. The general consensus is that the change in daylight triggers approximate time of year which gives the most favorable conditions for calving near the end of gestation period. There may be a slight variation in gestation rates but from a genetic perspective this is the most likely phenomenon that would ensure the survival of the species. In a nut-shell, changing light really lights up that poon tang and gets the bulls charged up.

 

Also, changing light periods is a gradual process and it triggers the hormone changes but can likely happen over a period of weeks to months which would explain different animals coming into estrus over a gradual period of time.

 

Here - I found a graph of Daylight hours per day and plotted my hunt time, and the moon phases. What do you think about the the amount of moonlight affecting it?

 

Rutting can begin without bugling...they see that often up in Canada. Seen the same in coastal Oregon.

 

I'm no expert so I cannot comment on the exact amount of light, just that it is decreasing light that kicks the show into gear. I'm heading to CO to hunt this year and arriving on 9/18. I had several dates available yet settled on then based on Outfitters reccimmendatuons based on moon and time of month. If I had to guess I'd say your timing is great but as eluded to earlier, estrus can be triggered in an individual animal while another in the same area comes in two weeks later. Every day in September there will be someone who sees rutting activity and another who sees no sign of the rut. That's hunting. I'd bet you'll be fine- good luck!!

 

X2 Two Bears! Hot cows is rutting action, plain & simple! Additional bugling is anything from testosterone levels rising feeling their oats to displaying & staging phases. It would take an act of God to stop bulls from bugling when cows are nearing or in estrus! You want intense bugling action & not lazy bedding bugles then find the hot cows for that day & area!

ElkNut/Paul

 

My thoughts are it's based on the cows and nothing to do with light.
The bulls down south tend to rut(peak) later than their northern buddies. If it were light I'd think they'd rut earlier. Who knows maybe it's all based on the region.

 

Whitetail does are triggered by light.
Bucks are ready and willing year round.
The whitetail rut peaks in November up here.
It's in January down south.
It's the same rule for elk.

 

I think it’s a compound effect of weather changing, moon phases, testosterone levels, pressure, day light hours, estrus yearly cycle, etc. etc. triggering it all. As you know... If you trend year after year the bulk of the rut activity always lye around the same time per what region it is. I think weather will speed it up, slow it down, make it take place more at night, etc. Seasonal weather trumps it all in my opinion. Sure some will rut early some will rut late but when all the conditions meet it’s the peak. This is my opinion. Think about whitetails for one second. Rut in Midwest is usually first two weeks of November. The further you go south the rut happens later. Very south Texas and Mexico the peak could be December and even January. So weather to me would be top of my list on what causes the rut and bugling.

 

I agree with lithe amount of light triggers a hormone change in cows. It's no different with deer.

What I am curious about is how moon light affects elk movement or in a bulls case his bugling.
With whitetails and the rut in accordance with a full moon. I have noticed on the front side of the full moon bucks will move better in the evening. On the back side of the full moon the movement is better in the morning.

Today is the full moon. Morning bugles have been in short supply. Can hardly get a bull to respond. However evening bugles were a little better.

I am curious to know what elknut or you other hunters have to say on that subject.

 

To add to the rut. You have to think of it as a marathon instead of a 100 yard dash. All cows won't come into heat on the same day. But you can bet there will be lots of bugling from multiple bulls when there is a hot cow in the area.

 

3) There's another theory that I have developed through observation, and that is bugle/rutting more likely to happen when there are 3 mature bulls or more in an area. It's in those situations, where it's ideal to come upon because those bulls have been bugling (and sparring/fighting) all night long. And when you get there with your bugle, they can often mistake you for one of those bulls they'd been competing with all night long.

I've suspected this to be the case for years now.
I don't even think it takes mature bulls.
And we all know what it sounds like when a herd bull has satellites messing with his cows.

 

If only the Drury brothers were hardcore elk hunters.

 

Compoud effects period.

 

I think the rut is really isn't as complicated as some might think. Generally, calves are born in the same time frame each spring, meaning conception occurs at roughly the same time each fall. There is only one consistent factor in nature and that is the amount of sunlight, or in the case of the rut, decreasing light levels. This triggers fur coat changes in animals, migratory instincts, even chlorophyll drops in plants, so it is more then reasonable to suppose it triggers hormone flows in elk and thus the rut, independent of other factors. Elk bugle year around as a means of communication, with the communication becoming more intense during the breeding cycle. I agree with Paul in that if a cow is putting estrus on the ground, bulls are bugling, period. That may occur in an isolated canyon that Joe hunter isn't in, and therefore is not privy to. If I go into Canyon A and hear nothing, then Canyon B and hear nothing, I can conclude there are not any hot cows in those canyons, but that doesn't mean they are not rutting. Canyon C has a hot cow, and the bulls are bugling, I'm just not in Canyon C. Since cows come into heat at different times and days, the rut is spread out over a few months, with different intensity levels, in different areas throughout a region. That is why you have one guy exclaiming the rut is in full swing and the bulls are going crazy, because he happened into an area with hot cows, while the next guy was in an area with no hot cows that day, he says the rut isn't happening yet. There are also mitigating and aggravating external effects such as pressure, weather, fire etc that can suppress vocalizations during the general rut, but have no real bearing on whether or not copulation will or does happen.

 

Two bear said it better than me but I agree 100%. Light triggers the cows and the bulls are ready whenever.

 

Corey Jacobson has an entire course of material he has put together called Elk101. Great material from his 30+ years in the elk woods, not too mention the education from his Dad Rocky Jacobson of Rocky Mountain elk calls.
There are several other western hunters with a wealth of knowledge including names like Wayne Carlton, Jim Horn, Randy Newberg, Larry D Jones, Dwight Schuh, Fred Eichler, Jim Burnsworth, etc. Those are my go to experts when I'm educating myself on elk.

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It is controlled by the photoperiod. There really isn't any debate unless you choose to ignore science. Both deer and elk are seasonally polyestrus animals. The start and end of the seasonal part is controlled by the number of hours of darkness. Hormone levels that cause the cows to come into estrus, as well as testosterone levels in the males correlate directly to the number of hours of darkness. Has nothing to do with temperature, moon signs, the tides or global warming.

You can take a deer or elk that is not pregnant and start,stop, and manipulate their reproductive styles at any time you want by simply exposing them to light.

 

I found everything you said on a research paper I googled. Did you write that?

 

It's #1 and ONLY #1 in regards to the cows estrous cycle.

 

Yes. It is the actual hours of darkness that stimulates them.

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Or the hours that it is not light out.

 

I've found that the more elk there are the more competition there is so there is more bugling. Elk are going nuts right now at 9000 ft and across the valley the elk herd at 6600 ft are acting like summer elk with little bugling. Bulls are most activity when temps are cool, and competition is high. They overheat easily. The cows come into estrus when they coming into estrus, I haven't found the estrus cycle dictate when rut activity is. Activity is always going if the conditions are right!

 

So your saying if you get a cold snap in May all hell breaks loose? Is that what you are implying? To hell with the estrous and the actual breeding? LOL!:mg::wink: