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Discussion Starter #1
Thought I would work the grey matter of you stickbow bowhunters, experienced or recent.

This is exercise is based on what will be a real-life event beginning Oct 1. I'll set it up.

My primary treestand is on my nephew's farm and the stand is located right at the fence-line of thousands of acres of wildlife management that contains numerous wetlands, a large lake, small lakes, a river that is only a 1/2 mile away that is quite wide as is begins to flow into a huge reservoir lake, and vegetation and timber that is that could hide a herd of standing elephants. All of this territory/terrain is behind me and to the west and east of my stand and runs for miles. Out in front of my stand are miles of agriculture fields of soybeans and cornfields, which will be under harvest by Oct 1.

I know that some stickbow hunters, tend to believe that a through and through shot is almost guaranteed if the gear is right/capable and the deer is hit it the right spot/ making for a good blood trail. I know that this is not the case, even with hard-shooting/hitting compound bows. Murphy rides astride of all deer, and deer are notorious for not cooperating at the time of the shot.

If my hit is not a complete pass-through, the blood will collect in the deer's cavity and a blood trail may not show up for a great distance, and even then the deer will be blowing occasional sprays of blood higher than ground level. I have no doubt that if I hit a deer and the deer is not dropped on the spot, it is going to immediately run into the wildlife management area, which in itself is going to be a challenge to track it, although I have successfully tracked many hit deer, and not just for myself. However, I am weighing the concern of it (deer) getting into the wetlands or jumping into one of the lakes, or worse yet, the river. Additionally, if I hit one on the evening hunt and the hit requires a lengthy wait before I track, especially if the hit is not in the critical vitals, tracking in those wild lands in the dark will be a challenge, but worse, we have large populations of coyotes.

As if all of the above stated is not enough to weigh on one's mind, it is not the greatest challenge I will face.

Hunting deer in the wildlife management lands is permitted by permit; no lottery, no limit of bowhunters. In fact, while scouting the area last weekend, I saw that someone has setup a ladder-stand in the management area, about 75 yards from where my primary stand is located, and a tree-stand about 200 yards from my stand. I know why. The area that I am hunting is a main route and feeding area for 20-30 deer, and the group has 3-4 very large bucks with huge racks, 3 being two 12 pointers and one 16 pointer, and several big 8 and 10 pointers.

I am also assuming that there will likely be many more bowhunters in the management areas, not to far from where I will be. Now we all know that there are unethical and thieving lowlifes that hunt, bow and firearms. My greatest concern, including tracking in the midst of a bunch of (possible) brush shooters, is that if I hit one of those big-racked bucks and it runs into the management lands, and I have no doubt it will, and is spotted by an unethical/thieving bowhunter, I have no doubt in my former military mind that I will lose the deer.

In my 45 years of bowhunting, I have been one of the lucky ones. I have never had to hunt public land unless I chose to do so, which was very few times. I hardly ever had to face the problem of losing a deer due to theft.

Weighing all that I have said, I have considered, not yet decided, that if one of the big bucks presents himself, taking a particular shot that will be a normal hit into the vitals that will kill the deer, result in dropping the deer in its tracks, or be a complete and predictable miss.

Years ago I set this shot up on a huge buck (245 lb, 8-pointer) that I knew would run into land/timber that is owned by a university, and the powers to be prohibited entry to recover the deer. The shot was successful and the buck dropped in his tracks and the coup de grace was a second arrow in his heart.

Anyone know the shot I am contemplating that will result in a standard killing shot requiring some dealy and tracking, or a rapid knockdown, or a complete miss without wounding the deer in a manner that it may not be recovered?

Deer Anatomy
 

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Unless you're thinking of intentionally spine shooting the deer.....I have no idea. And, if you are.....I don't wanna hear about it.....lol (no offense!).
 

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Straight down (less than 5 yards from base of tree) aiming spine but cheating on the nearside directly above the heart. Do I win the GPS coordinates of your spot and trail cam pic of 16 pointer:darkbeer:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Straight down (less than 5 yards from base of tree) aiming spine but cheating on the nearside directly above the heart. Do I win the GPS coordinates of your spot and trail cam pic of 16 pointer
Due to stand location I doubt that your shot will prevent itself. But obviously you and Black Wolf know that you can set up shots beyond the common shoot only for the "pie."

Nevertheless, you both are on the right track.

Shot would be 12 to 18 yards from tree, stand is approx 12-14 feet high.
 

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Due to stand location I doubt that your shot will prevent itself. But obviously you and Black Wolf know that you can set up shots beyond the common shoot only for the "pie."

Nevertheless, you both are on the right track.

Shot would be 12 to 18 yards from tree, stand is approx 12-14 feet high.


Over the limb, between the trees, off the rock.....nothing but vitals:nixon:
 

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No, I wasn't joking. Merely misunderstood what you were asking?

Weighing all that I have said, I have considered, not yet decided, that if one of the big bucks presents himself, taking a particular shot that will be a normal hit into the vitals that will kill the deer, result in dropping the deer in its tracks, or be a complete and predictable miss.
Since you ruled out a spine shot and mentioned the possibility of a complete miss I was wondering if you were contemplating the liver or kidney.

For some reason I assumed you were not going for a heart-lung shot because you mentioned the possibility of a miss, which I found strange considerinng your experience.

Sorry but the grey matter, what little there is, is pre-occupied with other muundane matters.
 

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Neat name. Indian?
Ancient Persian / Zorastrian. I am an Indian by nationality.

No, I am not related to Eric Bana. :D

Will re-read your post and try and figure out what you have in mind when I am less distracted.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Will re-read your post and try and figure out what you have in mind when I am less distracted.
Don't over analyze. It's just a matter of adjusting a particular aiming spot that will provide a standard lethal hit if the hit I would hope for doesn't occur....if I take the shot.
 

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"It's just a matter of adjusting a particular aiming spot..."
I have little experience of arrow trajectories but if you were 4 yards up a tree/stand and the deer was at 12 or 18 yards from the bottom of the tree, the hypotenuse of the triangle in both cases would be 12.65 and 18.44 yards respectively. In effect, it's more or less the horizontal distance of the deer from the stand and you should aim as you would if you were on level ground but oviously a little higher up the deer's flank so as to cut through the heart or lung or both.

Do I get the biscuit or should I reach for my coat?

P.S.: That bit about the possibility of "a complete and predictable miss" is still making me scratch my head though.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Rustam:

Put down your calculator and simply factor in how deer react most of the time when you take the shot.

but oviously a little higher up the deer's flank so as to cut through the heart or lung or both.
Nay! Shooting up or shooting down, especially with recurves/longbow, the arrow is not as affected by gravity, so the impact point will generally be higher. Therefore you aim lower, even before you factor in how the deer will react to any post-shot sound.

Nay on the "flank." The flank is to the rear of the deer, generally considered to be on/near the rear legs, although a butcher might get more specific and tell the flank is along the ribs and stomach.....but still to the rear of the deer.

PS: When I said "especially with recurves/longbow," what I mean is that with a high-speed c-bow the necessity to adjust point of aim is not as critical if the distance is not great.
 

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Put down your calculator and simply factor in how deer react most of the time when you take the shot.
Hehehe.... They 'duck', if the You Tube videos are anything to go by.

Nay! Shooting up or shooting down, especially with recurves/longbow, the arrow is not as affected by gravity, so the impact point will generally be higher.
Even if you 'aim' keeping the horizontal distance as your range?

Nay on the "flank." The flank is to the rear of the deer, generally considered to be on/near the rear legs....
Mea culpa! I wasn't refering to the rear or middle but the front shoulder area.
 

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I would just shoot the biggest broadhead I could so you have something to follow.Put enough blood on the ground and recovery will be quick on any good shot.Don't see the issue here myself?I usually see most deer fall or at least hear them when they go down.Hit them right and watch them after the shot and pay attention to what you see. jmo
 

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I've only killed 23 whitetails......and I've hit them about everywhere you can hit them (and I'm not proud of some of those).

If you're not talking about a spine shot that will drop the deer "in its' tracks"....the only other spot I can "imagine" would be a head shot.

Maybe I'll learn something, here.
 

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You are going to aim above center line of vital area counting on the deer "ducking the string". Three outcomes possible:

1. Deer does not react = double lung

2. Deer drops at release resulting in spine shot and falls over, quick follow up shot to the vitals

3. Deer drops significantly at release = predictable miss

This scenario would indicate that you do not believe the common misconception of a "no kill zone" between the top of the lungs and the spine which is why you pointed out deer anatomy in the OP.
 
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